Author Topic: It's just not fair  (Read 11381 times)

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Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2010, 11:31:44 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Pierce scored less, yes. Lebron did play good defense. But PP didn't have to score his average. It's a team game and when someone's hot, give them the ball. I attribute PP scoring less to the team concept and him playing defense on Lebron. At this point in time, yes Lebron is the  better player. But to say that PP's scoring woes were due strictly to Lebron's defense is incorrect.

And he played better against the Magic bc LOOK AT WHO HE WAS GUARDING!! Vince Carter? LOL. Come on now. He's way past his prime. Orlando should have kept Hedo for crying out loud. He didn't have to focus od defense so thanks for proving my point. when all he has to do is play offense, he scores buckets. And I don't get why you say "accoring to my math." Look at everything I said, the math is all correct.

And no way do you base one's regular season stats vs their playoff stats. It's a different ball game. And yes since Lebron only played in two series, what else would you compare it to?


I might agree with you if Pierce didn't shot 35% for the series.  12 points lower then his season average.


Of course you compare it to the regular season.  It is a larger set of data vs. 5 games against a single opponent.  One shows what the player has been doing through out the season.  One shows how he matches up to a single team.

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2010, 11:34:27 AM »

Offline MBunge

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It is fair.  Miami made the moves they need to do to get to this point.


Cleveland and Toronto failed to keep their stars happy enough to stay. 


I still believe in Boston.

What's unfair is if Wade, LeBron and Bosh did in fact conspire to bring this about, especially if Wade let Riley know about it.  For example, Cleveland spent the last three years paying millions of dollars in luxury taxes to try and put the best possible team around LeBron, while Miami did not only not pay luxury taxes, they made very little effort to genuinely improve the team around Wade the last two years.

In normal circumstances, it should have been Wade looking to bolt Miami because they're weren't doing enough to win and join Bron in Cleveland.  If this was all a scam, how fair is it that Cleveland could now spend years digging out from all the salary they took on to try and satisfy LeBron...when there was never a real chance of that happening?

Mike

Wade was complaining those years about not getting enough help.  He made it clear he would leave if more help was not brought in.

Cleveland took on many bad contracts for players that were at best, third and forth options on good teams.  They capped out.  They were in an unattractive location.


Miami cleared the tables.  They were not as good as they could have been the past two seasons.  They had a desirable location.


Yes, they worked on Lebron early through Wade, but players always talk. 


At the end of the day, Lebron went where he thought he would have a better chance at winning a title and an organization that would give his 'guys' preferential treatment.  (something apparently Chicago refused to do)

Why did Cleveland take on those bad contracts?  To try and keep LeBron happy by building the best team possible around him.  On the other hand, Miami basically threw away two years of Dwayne Wade's prime by NOT making moves to improve the team.  If Cleveland knew there was an informal agreement between Wade, Bron and Bosh to meet up in Miami, do you think they make all the same moves and take on all the same contracts over the last 3 years?  Would New York and New Jersey have focused so intently on this offseason, to the extent of tanking the last 2 or 3 years, if they'd know there was such an informal agreement?

Mike

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2010, 11:36:11 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Miami has a better front office and made a better read. 


Cleveland had 7 years to put around James a team that could win.  They failed.

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2010, 11:42:19 AM »

Offline Larry Pistol

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Pierce scored less, yes. Lebron did play good defense. But PP didn't have to score his average. It's a team game and when someone's hot, give them the ball. I attribute PP scoring less to the team concept and him playing defense on Lebron. At this point in time, yes Lebron is the  better player. But to say that PP's scoring woes were due strictly to Lebron's defense is incorrect.

And he played better against the Magic bc LOOK AT WHO HE WAS GUARDING!! Vince Carter? LOL. Come on now. He's way past his prime. Orlando should have kept Hedo for crying out loud. He didn't have to focus od defense so thanks for proving my point. when all he has to do is play offense, he scores buckets. And I don't get why you say "accoring to my math." Look at everything I said, the math is all correct.

And no way do you base one's regular season stats vs their playoff stats. It's a different ball game. And yes since Lebron only played in two series, what else would you compare it to?


I might agree with you if Pierce didn't shot 35% for the series.  12 points lower then his season average.


Of course you compare it to the regular season.  It is a larger set of data vs. 5 games against a single opponent.  One shows what the player has been doing through out the season.  One shows how he matches up to a single team.

Okay, you're right. He did shoot a bad percentage. But I also agreed when I said Lebron played good defense on him. My point was that he didn't shut him down. He slowed him down. And his low ppg in the series is due to both Lebron's D and him not needed/wanting to score as much.

And while yes the 82 regular season is a better collection of data, it's a different stage. It's a different atmosphere with more pressure, more intangibles. More effort goes into every single play. Some guys can go out and score X amount of points in the regular season, but come time for the playoffs, they disappear. Example: Rashard Lewis, Mo Williams, etc. Comparing one series to another isn't a bad comparison when you consider how different playing in the playoffs is compared to the regular season.

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2010, 11:49:48 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Miami has a better front office and made a better read. 


Cleveland had 7 years to put around James a team that could win.  They failed.

1.  Did they make a better read or did they know something Cleveland did not?  Or Did Wade and LeBron know something that neither of their front offices did?

2.  This season, at least, Cleveland put a team around LeBron that could have won.  He deserves equal blame for this failure, which makes his talk of having to leave to win a ring more than a little self-serving.

Mike

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2010, 11:51:38 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Miami has a better front office and made a better read. 


Cleveland had 7 years to put around James a team that could win.  They failed.

1.  Did they make a better read or did they know something Cleveland did not?  Or Did Wade and LeBron know something that neither of their front offices did?

2.  This season, at least, Cleveland put a team around LeBron that could have won.  He deserves equal blame for this failure, which makes his talk of having to leave to win a ring more than a little self-serving.

Mike

I think the main read was that Bosh wanted out of Toronto and wanted to play with better players.

I think he 2nd read is that the team in Florida, when they have cap room, bring in the big FA. 

Third read, there were other big names on the market.

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2010, 11:54:10 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Pierce scored less, yes. Lebron did play good defense. But PP didn't have to score his average. It's a team game and when someone's hot, give them the ball. I attribute PP scoring less to the team concept and him playing defense on Lebron. At this point in time, yes Lebron is the  better player. But to say that PP's scoring woes were due strictly to Lebron's defense is incorrect.

And he played better against the Magic bc LOOK AT WHO HE WAS GUARDING!! Vince Carter? LOL. Come on now. He's way past his prime. Orlando should have kept Hedo for crying out loud. He didn't have to focus od defense so thanks for proving my point. when all he has to do is play offense, he scores buckets. And I don't get why you say "accoring to my math." Look at everything I said, the math is all correct.

And no way do you base one's regular season stats vs their playoff stats. It's a different ball game. And yes since Lebron only played in two series, what else would you compare it to?


I might agree with you if Pierce didn't shot 35% for the series.  12 points lower then his season average.


Of course you compare it to the regular season.  It is a larger set of data vs. 5 games against a single opponent.  One shows what the player has been doing through out the season.  One shows how he matches up to a single team.

Okay, you're right. He did shoot a bad percentage. But I also agreed when I said Lebron played good defense on him. My point was that he didn't shut him down. He slowed him down. And his low ppg in the series is due to both Lebron's D and him not needed/wanting to score as much.

I'm not buying it. Nobody 'shuts' anybody down. LeBron effectively eliminated Pierce on the offensive end in the Cleveland series, plain and simple. He took him out of his comfort zone and made Pierce score what few points he did in an inefficient manner. Pierce had one game where he scored relatively well, and even then he only shot 42% and needed a 32 point blowout to get to 20+ points.

Miami has a better front office and made a better read.  


Cleveland had 7 years to put around James a team that could win.  They failed.

1.  Did they make a better read or did they know something Cleveland did not?  Or Did Wade and LeBron know something that neither of their front offices did?

2.  This season, at least, Cleveland put a team around LeBron that could have won.  He deserves equal blame for this failure, which makes his talk of having to leave to win a ring more than a little self-serving.

Mike

I don't agree with that either. 34 year old Antawn Jamison, 36 year old Big Z, 38 year old Shaq....the only above average players not in the twilight of his career were Mo Williams, who was just terrible beyond that one game against the C's, and Andersen Varejao, who should have never seen the bench.

Then look at like...LA, or Orlando...

Bryant (LA): Gasol, prime...Bynum, prime...Odom, prime
Dwight (ORL): Rashard, prime..Nelson, prime...Vince Carter, twilight...

Cleveland might have tried their best, but their best simply wasn't good enough.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2010, 11:57:24 AM »

Offline Chelm

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I know most of you aren't saying this but I just want to clarify:  Pierce is NOT as good as Lebron in 2010.  Pierce was probably never as good as 2010 Lebron.  Lebron is up on the list of all-time greats already, and he's 25.  Pierce didn't beat Lebron this year, the Cs beat the Cavs.  It's a team sport.  If you could somehow switch Lebron & Pierce straight up in 2010, the Cavs wouldn't have even made the Playoffs and the Celtics would've won the Finals in 4.

That being said, he has shown himself to be a selfish, arrogant ass and I'm looking forward to getting to watch them implode in the playoffs.  I hope they can't convince people to join for huge paycuts because I really want to see them flounder.  I want to see them get pummeled by every real center in the game SO badly.  I can't wait.

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2010, 12:14:50 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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I don't think the OP actually meant it's just not fair.  I just think he saw that Sports Illustrated cover and it actually hit him that Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and LeBron James are going to be playing on the same team.

Also if tampering charges do come out of this, which I don't believe will happen, and LeBron, Bosh, and Wade had been planing this since the Olympics or even if it was just two months before then it is not fair and it is cheating!
"It's all about having the heart of a champion." - #34 Paul Pierce

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2010, 12:25:48 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

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Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2010, 12:28:31 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.
"It's all about having the heart of a champion." - #34 Paul Pierce

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2010, 12:31:21 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

I'm sure KG "tampered" with his good friend Sam Cassell when he was on the Clippers.  I'm sure KG also talked with Rasheed while he was still with Detroit.  I'm sure that 95% (at least) of the players in the league have had a conversation with a friend on another team that could be technically construed as tampering.  It's just not something that I think is a big deal.

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Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2010, 12:34:32 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2010, 12:37:07 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Honestly, I don't care if Wade did recruit Bosh and Lebron before July 1.  I think stuff like that happens all the time.  Players talk about their situations; how could they not?

Now, if Bosh and Lebron specifically agreed to sign with Miami two years ago, and Pat Riley knew about it / coordinated it, then that's a bigger issue.  But if this was just a player's thing, who cares, really?

What if they did while playing for their former teams?  If they did it after it's not a big deal, but if they did it while they were playing for their former teams, then I have a BIG problem with it.

Well you might hate it, but if a player on one team takes it upon himself to recruit a player under contract on another team, it is not against the rules.

Technically, I think it actually is, but nobody enforces that rule.  It's something that I'm sure happens every time two players get together.

The NBA cares about executives / team officials illegally recruiting players, not other players doing so.  I think that's sensible, especially when the players allegedly involved were all free agents.

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Re: It's just not fair
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2010, 12:38:30 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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God forbid that three friends working relatively unfulfilling jobs get together and talk about starting their own company.