Author Topic: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?  (Read 27830 times)

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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2010, 07:09:56 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Miller is in Miami now and the deal will be done within a day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5380556

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2010, 07:31:44 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I still don't get that signing for either team. Mike Miller can get much more PT elsewhere, and probably even more money. He won't even take a backseat if they do anything good next year, more like he'll be in the trunk. As for Miami, they have much bigger needs than a backup SG/SF.

If they are looking to play him alongside Wade and Lebron, they are asking for trouble.

In the regular season, you face so many bad teams and very few great ones, that you can afford to play around, that's why you see so many teams with superb records get knocked off earlier than expected, because they beat up on the bad teams and surprise the great ones in the regular season.

When Miami won in 2006 (one of the most crooked Finals ever), they had conventional PG's in Jason Williams (don't laugh) and Gary Payton (again, don't laugh).

The addition of Mo Williams to Cleveland's roster in 2008 turned them into a 60-win team. Before that, they were a .500-.600 team. LeBron didn't get magically better, he just had less ball-handling responsibilities.

Neither LeBron or Wade will be able to effectively run - or defend - the PG position in the playoffs. Not against Rose. Not against Nelson. Not against Rondo.

Mike Miller would've helped us a lot more than he can hurt us.
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2010, 08:11:04 PM »

Offline wahz

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some of you have forgotten Poelstra's comment to his assistant:

"Now we can't bring the ball up??"

so lets stop the Wade can bring the ball up stuff. Maybe if Rondo loses a leg, Wade will be able to.

And no LeBron didn't bring the ball up much against us and when he did he was a turnover machine. Too many have forgotten we played both these guys. No, we didn't play them together, but I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2010, 08:40:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

ah, yes.  The elusive Rondo jumper.  Each offseason I read about how all Rondo needs to do is "add a jumper", and that it is a simple thing to do.  still waiting.  and I don't plan to hold my breath.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 09:03:11 PM by Cman »
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2010, 08:52:11 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

ah, yes.  The elusive Rondo jumper.  Each offseason I read about how all Rondo need to do is "add a jumper", and that it is a simple thing to do.  still waiting.  and I don't plan to hold my breath.



Rondo's jumper is getting better and better.  It was much improved last season and I only expect it to improve more so. 
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2010, 09:01:56 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

ah, yes.  The elusive Rondo jumper.  Each offseason I read about how all Rondo need to do is "add a jumper", and that it is a simple thing to do.  still waiting.  and I don't plan to hold my breath.



Rondo's jumper is getting better and better.  It was much improved last season and I only expect it to improve more so. 

I hope you're right, but I haven't really seen it, and the stats don't back it up.

2007:  .327 eFG% on jumpers, 64.7% FT%, 20.7% 3PT%
2008:  .422 eFG% on jumpers, 61.1% FT%, 26.3% 3PT%
2009:  .375 eFG% on jumpers, 64.2% FT%, 31.3% 3PT%
2010:  .374 eFG% on jumpers, 62.1% FT%, 21.3% 3PT%

I'm just not seeing a positive progression there.



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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2010, 09:17:12 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I agr with Roy 100 percent with Rondo's shooting. Little or no improvement in my mind.

As for these players signing in Miami for much less than they can get from other teams, I am just curious if anyone has heard any comments from the NBA players association regarding this. I am assuming they cannot be too happy.

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2010, 09:21:22 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

ah, yes.  The elusive Rondo jumper.  Each offseason I read about how all Rondo need to do is "add a jumper", and that it is a simple thing to do.  still waiting.  and I don't plan to hold my breath.



Rondo's jumper is getting better and better.  It was much improved last season and I only expect it to improve more so. 

I hope you're right, but I haven't really seen it, and the stats don't back it up.

2007:  .327 eFG% on jumpers, 64.7% FT%, 20.7% 3PT%
2008:  .422 eFG% on jumpers, 61.1% FT%, 26.3% 3PT%
2009:  .375 eFG% on jumpers, 64.2% FT%, 31.3% 3PT%
2010:  .374 eFG% on jumpers, 62.1% FT%, 21.3% 3PT%

I'm just not seeing a positive progression there.




His jumper was better, in the beginning of the season it was awful, which is why the stats don't look good, but as the season went on it got better, and he wasn't as much of a liability with it.  Also he wasn't afraid to take the open jump shot anymore. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 09:30:52 PM by Mike-Dub »
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2010, 09:52:26 PM »

Offline ducksawce

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Rondo's jumper percentage may be similar to last year's, but that does not mean he hasn't improved tremendously.

He is taking more jumpers than before.  Many of these jumpers are more difficult than those he took in previous years.  Most importantly, he now actually takes these jumpers at pivotal moments of games, rather than relying on botched drives, or cop-out hand-offs to one of the Big 3 (who are often double teamed or in a position of compromised scoring likelihood). 

Next year, I'm sure we'll be witnessing a 5 percentage point raise in his jumpshot...at the very least....possibly even 10 percentage points.  This alone will vastly change the way teams guard the Celtics.  No more "roaming".  No more "hack-a-rondo".  No more 4 on 5 offense.


Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2010, 09:54:13 PM »

Offline footey

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I'll tell you this: If Rajon Rondo develops a jumper, he is as good as either of them...and we have a few other good players.

ah, yes.  The elusive Rondo jumper.  Each offseason I read about how all Rondo need to do is "add a jumper", and that it is a simple thing to do.  still waiting.  and I don't plan to hold my breath.



Rondo's jumper is getting better and better.  It was much improved last season and I only expect it to improve more so. 

I hope you're right, but I haven't really seen it, and the stats don't back it up.

2007:  .327 eFG% on jumpers, 64.7% FT%, 20.7% 3PT%
2008:  .422 eFG% on jumpers, 61.1% FT%, 26.3% 3PT%
2009:  .375 eFG% on jumpers, 64.2% FT%, 31.3% 3PT%
2010:  .374 eFG% on jumpers, 62.1% FT%, 21.3% 3PT%

I'm just not seeing a positive progression there.




Wow, I thought he was progressing with his jumper. Guess not. His total FG % has improved, though, i would imagine. 

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2010, 09:55:36 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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Rondo's jumper percentage may be similar to last year's, but that does not mean he hasn't improved tremendously.

He is taking more jumpers than before.  Many of these jumpers are more difficult than those he took in previous years.  Most importantly, he now actually takes these jumpers at pivotal moments of games, rather than relying on botched drives, or cop-out hand-offs to one of the Big 3 (who are often double teamed or in a position of compromised scoring likelihood). 

Next year, I'm sure we'll be witnessing a 5 percentage point raise in his jumpshot...at the very least....possibly even 10 percentage points.  This alone will vastly change the way teams guard the Celtics.  No more "roaming".  No more "hack-a-rondo".  No more 4 on 5 offense.



His jumpshot is improving but his free-throws haven't been.  Hopefully his jump shot will continue to improve and his free-throws will improve immensely.
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2010, 09:56:14 PM »

Offline footey

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At what point do we change the heading of this thread--after the second or the third year he plays for the Heat??

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2010, 11:39:36 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Rondo's jumper percentage may be similar to last year's, but that does not mean he hasn't improved tremendously.

He is taking more jumpers than before.  Many of these jumpers are more difficult than those he took in previous years.  Most importantly, he now actually takes these jumpers at pivotal moments of games, rather than relying on botched drives, or cop-out hand-offs to one of the Big 3 (who are often double teamed or in a position of compromised scoring likelihood).  

Next year, I'm sure we'll be witnessing a 5 percentage point raise in his jumpshot...at the very least....possibly even 10 percentage points.  This alone will vastly change the way teams guard the Celtics.  No more "roaming".  No more "hack-a-rondo".  No more 4 on 5 offense.



His jumpshot is improving but his free-throws haven't been.  Hopefully his jump shot will continue to improve and his free-throws will improve immensely.

Obviously the jumper would be great, but how about just the free throw shooting.  How can't he make a better percentage of his FT attempts?  Even if Rondo never becomes a good jump shooter he will be able to be so much more aggressive if he can draw fouls and go at some bigger defenders.  As is it's a great idea to foul Rondo going to the rim.


I still don't get that signing for either team. Mike Miller can get much more PT elsewhere, and probably even more money. He won't even take a backseat if they do anything good next year, more like he'll be in the trunk. As for Miami, they have much bigger needs than a backup SG/SF.

If they are looking to play him alongside Wade and Lebron, they are asking for trouble.

In the regular season, you face so many bad teams and very few great ones, that you can afford to play around, that's why you see so many teams with superb records get knocked off earlier than expected, because they beat up on the bad teams and surprise the great ones in the regular season.

When Miami won in 2006 (one of the most crooked Finals ever), they had conventional PG's in Jason Williams (don't laugh) and Gary Payton (again, don't laugh).

The addition of Mo Williams to Cleveland's roster in 2008 turned them into a 60-win team. Before that, they were a .500-.600 team. LeBron didn't get magically better, he just had less ball-handling responsibilities.

Neither LeBron or Wade will be able to effectively run - or defend - the PG position in the playoffs. Not against Rose. Not against Nelson. Not against Rondo.

Mike Miller would've helped us a lot more than he can hurt us.

Mike Miller will start and he can't start on a better team in the NBA.

You really think Mo Williams was what made the Cavs better of the years?  You really don't think it was LeBron?  You know he won the MVP those two years they won 60 games right?  He didn't "magically" get better, every player gets better and LeBron is probably the best player in the NBA.  Mo Williams is unreliable and even at his best not a "2nd best player on a great team" kind of guy by any stretch.  Obviously he contributed, but make no mistake that was LeBron's doing.  Watch how good the Cavs are this upcoming season, and then we will return to your post.

LeBron is an outstanding passing and only needs to have a coach use him as a point guard.  He didn't in Cleveland, they ran CYO offensive sets under Mike Brown, I have to imagine it will get better and LeBron can absolutely run point forward.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:47:47 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2010, 01:32:19 AM »

Offline jeezem

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if LeBron plays Point Forward, who is he passing to?  he's the best 3 point shooter on the team, and he's not particularly good.

Re: Mike Miller Backing Out of Heat Deal?
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2010, 04:24:13 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Rondo's jumper percentage may be similar to last year's, but that does not mean he hasn't improved tremendously.

He is taking more jumpers than before.  Many of these jumpers are more difficult than those he took in previous years.  Most importantly, he now actually takes these jumpers at pivotal moments of games, rather than relying on botched drives, or cop-out hand-offs to one of the Big 3 (who are often double teamed or in a position of compromised scoring likelihood).  

Next year, I'm sure we'll be witnessing a 5 percentage point raise in his jumpshot...at the very least....possibly even 10 percentage points.  This alone will vastly change the way teams guard the Celtics.  No more "roaming".  No more "hack-a-rondo".  No more 4 on 5 offense.



His jumpshot is improving but his free-throws haven't been.  Hopefully his jump shot will continue to improve and his free-throws will improve immensely.

Obviously the jumper would be great, but how about just the free throw shooting.  How can't he make a better percentage of his FT attempts?  Even if Rondo never becomes a good jump shooter he will be able to be so much more aggressive if he can draw fouls and go at some bigger defenders.  As is it's a great idea to foul Rondo going to the rim.


I still don't get that signing for either team. Mike Miller can get much more PT elsewhere, and probably even more money. He won't even take a backseat if they do anything good next year, more like he'll be in the trunk. As for Miami, they have much bigger needs than a backup SG/SF.

If they are looking to play him alongside Wade and Lebron, they are asking for trouble.

In the regular season, you face so many bad teams and very few great ones, that you can afford to play around, that's why you see so many teams with superb records get knocked off earlier than expected, because they beat up on the bad teams and surprise the great ones in the regular season.

When Miami won in 2006 (one of the most crooked Finals ever), they had conventional PG's in Jason Williams (don't laugh) and Gary Payton (again, don't laugh).

The addition of Mo Williams to Cleveland's roster in 2008 turned them into a 60-win team. Before that, they were a .500-.600 team. LeBron didn't get magically better, he just had less ball-handling responsibilities.

Neither LeBron or Wade will be able to effectively run - or defend - the PG position in the playoffs. Not against Rose. Not against Nelson. Not against Rondo.

Mike Miller would've helped us a lot more than he can hurt us.

Mike Miller will start and he can't start on a better team in the NBA.

You really think Mo Williams was what made the Cavs better of the years?  You really don't think it was LeBron?  You know he won the MVP those two years they won 60 games right?  He didn't "magically" get better, every player gets better and LeBron is probably the best player in the NBA.  Mo Williams is unreliable and even at his best not a "2nd best player on a great team" kind of guy by any stretch.  Obviously he contributed, but make no mistake that was LeBron's doing.  Watch how good the Cavs are this upcoming season, and then we will return to your post.

LeBron is an outstanding passing and only needs to have a coach use him as a point guard.  He didn't in Cleveland, they ran CYO offensive sets under Mike Brown, I have to imagine it will get better and LeBron can absolutely run point forward.

The 2007-08 Cavs won 45 games. The 2008-09 Cavs won 66. That's 21 games. You think LeBron "magically" got 21 wins better? The replacing of Daniel Gibson with Mo Williams sure made a difference. The offense still ran through LeBron (as his assist numbers remained the same), but he was able to do less to facilitate the offense. Do you think I don't know LeBron was far and away the best player on the Cavs? I don't care if the Cavs win 11 games next season or 51. I'm saying spending nearly $50 million on a starting lineup in one offseason and not getting a conventional PG is a bad idea.

I'd assume we're gonna see less of Wade and LeBron together (except for the start and end of the halves), and more of Mike Miller with one of them, not both. It creates a constant barrage of superstar talent, instead of the bench undoing whatever good the starters did. Bosh will have to play with as many stars at one time as possible, because it is evident he cannot play by himself.

If you believe Miller will definitely start, it doesn't quite add that much to their starting unit (there's only so many shots available), and it significantly lessens their already terrible bench.

They are not adding complimentary players at the moment. Miller is a nice player, but his overall game won't be utilized playing with the Heat. He will essentially be reduced to a 3-point specialist with that starting lineup. You can get just as good shooters for far less, like Anthony Morrow, and then address bigger needs.

And, I really like the Celtics lineup against them if that's the case.

Wade - Rondo
Miller - Allen
James - Pierce
Bosh - Garnett
?? - ??

You like Wade trying to cover Rondo? I don't. Rondo will definitely have his hands full defending Wade, but I expect Rondo to at least keep him in front of him and force him to be a shooter, although the refs love to let Wade live at the line.

Ray will stay with Miller no problem, as many SG's are better off the dribble than Miller. All he really has to do is limit the space he gets and keep a hand in his face. Miller will NOT be able to chase Ray for 35-40 mpg.

Paul and LeBron bring the best out in each other, and they both have trouble getting into a groove when facing one another. LeBron may hold the statistical edge, but Paul's team has the better record.

I am not worried about Bosh. KG can and will neutralize him. KG went up against Beasley, Jamison, and Lewis, and easily outperformed them, including lockdown D. Even against Gasol, he did a good job, especially the last five games of the series.

Whoever we have at center will be significantly better than whoever they trot out.



O yeah, and don't even get me started on Orlando. I truly believe they would wipe the floor with Miami easier than the Celtics or Lakers would. This is all here and now, as Boston, Orlando, and Miami all still have work to do this summer to fill out their rosters.
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