Think about it....Ray really may leave

[GreenEnvy]

To be honest, I think Wade is an excellent defender and could guard PG's, just not maybe for the whole regular season.

I don't think they are gonna throw a lot of money at Ray though. They can go out and get a Korver or something for much cheaper and fill other needs.


Don't they have like 2 players under contract (plus 3 unsigned draft picks)? With Wade and Bosh, that's another $30M+ easily. So there's not a lot of money left to fill out the roster. Giving Ray $10 million and leaving a few million for another 5 players is not a great idea.

[GreenEnvy]

If he's going to be turning down a lot of money to stay that team is making a mistake.  I don't think Ray's going to get that much but, Ainge might be looking to move him for a younger piece anyway.  

It wouldn't be all bad not having to deal with the inevitable family issue that appears to only happen during the Finals.

Unless they get Mike Miller AND Anthony Morrow, they aren't replacing his value.

Even if they can land both, that's valuable cap relief and the MLE just to replace Ray. Unless we S&T him, we are not getting much better, in fect we lose 'Sheed too, so maybe we are worse.


And Ray never missed a game due to his boy's diabetes, so it's not a team problem.

Well I'm talking sign-and-trade for a younger scorer if possible.  

It may have been better if he did, ironically.

Such as?

Very hard to S&T him because he would have to go to a team HE wants to go to, and he'd only want to go to a contender. And no contender has a young scorer who helps us, at least not as much as we would be helping said contender.

Unless you have a scenario in mind, I don't see one.

Why do you think he has to go to a team he wants to go to?  

If he thinks he's worth more than the C's are giving, he gives up his right to complain.

He's been here 3 years he's not Pierce and if they can get a young scorer from a team looking for cap space... bye bye.

Sign and trades need to be approved by the player, so of course he has to approve the team along with the contract. He won't be playing for whatever team Danny can strike up a trade with.

If he thinks he is worth more than he is offered from the C's, he has to go out and get it, Danny doesn't have to do it for him, and if he managed to find some trade, it would be hard to make sure all parties (Celtics, Ray, other team) get a fair shake.

If a team is looking for cap space, why are they trading for Ray Allen?

The only teams that want a 35-year-old sharpshooter in the $8-12 million range are elite teams.

You think Danny is gonna do a S&T with another contender and give up Ray? I certainly don't.

Ok you sort of destroyed my post.  TP.

I suppose when you put it like that it's almost Ray or bust although I guess Lee could still be considered a possibility and one I would do in heartbeat and try and find another shooter for lower price.

Yeah lol, it is almost certainly Ray or bust ever since Danny stayed put at the trade deadline (which I agreed with then and now).

Lee I was thinking about too, but he really is too small for C, and won't justify all the money at PF with KG and BBD already there. Plus where's our 3pt shooting now?

But it's a business, and Ray has leverage. If we go out and ink Mike Miller in the next few days, he loses that leverage.

[wdleehi]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

[Jon]

And why would the Knicks ever sign and trade David Lee to us?  They have zero motivation.  It doesn't save them cap space.  We'd have to throw something else in.  And I think it'd take more than a first round pick.  

[GreenEnvy]

I really think that Ray's options to leave are going to be limited.  Here's a few reasons why:

1) Ray is really only useful to a team looking to contend immediately.  Thus if NY and NJ miss out on LeBron, what's really the point of dropping big money on Ray?  At most, I see one of those teams offering him big money, but for only 1 year.  They're not going to want to take themselves out of the running for next year's FA crop.  

2) Given that case, we can really limit things to just Miami and maybe Chicago.  In the case of Chicago, I'm not sure there's anything they can do on the FA market to make adding Ray really worth their while.  Miami may be a different story.  However, as some of you have already pointed out, Ray's not the greatest fit for them and they'd probably be better going after a Boozer or even a Mike Miller.  

3) The Celtics need Ray.  With Pierce re-signed for 4-years, there no longer is an option to blow it up.  And the Celtics need to be upgrading their roster with the MLE and Sheed's contract, not looking to replace Ray with it.  If anything, I think the C's are more willing to splurge on Ray now than they would've been had Paul not opted out of his deal.  I mean at this point, is the third year really a deal breaker when PP is on the books for four?  

4) A sign and trade isn't going to be easy.  The David Lee thing is absurd, since NY has no motivation to give us a player we can't sign for a player they can.  It doesn't clear them or save them any space.  And most other deals won't work either.  Teams with space will just sign him.  Teams with young talent likely won't want Ray.  And most importantly, if Ray's asking for too much (say 12 million a year), we're going to likely have to take that much salary back ourselves (or darn close to it).  

So for a sign and trade to work, we're either going to have to trade for someone with a shorter deal than Ray's getting, with a team slightly below the cap (so we can take back less salary), or for a player(s) that we'll be happy to be paying 12 million dollars a year 3 years from now.  

Outside of maybe Miami getting silly or New York or New Jersey throwing big money his way for one year, I don't see it happening.  And even the Miami thing doesn't seem likely to me.  I don't see them being able to put together a contender for next year.  They're going to need at least two years of using the MLE (maybe 3) to surround Bosh and Wade with enough talent.  And what's the point of paying a soon-to-be 35-year-old a big deal on the hope he can win you a title in 2011-2012?  

Good post, TP.

Basically, unless some team does something severely unintelligent, Ray Allen will be a Boston Celtic for the next 2+ years.

[hubert.the.potato]

If Ray goes the one of the contenders, that could really,really hurt us.Not only would he knock down a bunch of 3's,he'd also kick some ass on defense

[MBunge]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

[hubert.the.potato]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

There's a rumor that NJ and the Pacers have agreed to trade Granger and Harris

[thedawg]

 
It wouldn't be all bad not having to deal with the inevitable family issue that appears to only happen during the Finals.

Arent we human beings? I find this blatantly irrelevant comment. If a family member is hurt or sick then basketball isnt the priority for that person.

Regarding TA becoming a starter if Ray Allen goes then there is one answer for that: You kidding???  I hope we wont resign TA unless he takes less money. We have given TA way too much time after his injuries but gave up on Leon Powe right away, and today we badly need a rebounder. Ray will resign and we will need to get a big man ASAP. Shaq would be great if we could get him on the cheap along with Brad or Mike Miller. Then JJ Reddick would be nice too...how we fit them all is a question for Ainge.

[Green Hell]

If Ray leaves to contend with another team, he'll never be able to step foot in Boston again. After his performance in the Finals, coupled with Boston fans textbook fickleness, things could turn ugly if Ray decides to bolt. I'd hate to see what would happen if he goes somewhere else and helps that team win a championship, leaving behind KG and Paul after all they've done for one another. I just couldn't hold him in the same high esteem that I do now -- but I guess that's why I'm a Boston fan too  

[Andy Jick]

I've often wondered if Ray's personality just doesn't fit here that well, and that he's not as tied to this situation in Boston as much as we might think.

I don't know...but it makes one wonder (since this thread is all about thinking).

[LAceltic34]

.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area,

He actually doesn't like the area...lol

Ive read many reports and articles that he said himself that he loves the area.....


wait a minute ,LEBRON is that you?

[wdleehi]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

NJ is not a threat.

Wade can defend Rose in a 7 game series.

Wade can defend Nelson in a 7 game series.

Better question, do you see those guys defending Wade or Ray for a 7 game series?

Plus, that is why teams have benches.  

[GreenEnvy]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

There's a rumor that NJ and the Pacers have agreed to trade Granger and Harris

Yeah supposedly one of the draft night deals that can't be announced til tomorrow or something right?

Doesn't make much sense for either team if you ask me, but whatever.

[winsomme]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.