Think about it....Ray really may leave

[LAceltic34]

WOW!!! I am finally logged on. Hello every1 out there in CELTICS NATION!!!! as u can see I am happy to be here ...lol. Now on to some Celtic talk....hey listen up , RAY RAY isnt going NO where...mark my words... Pierce made his move to allow RAY RAY some extra cash, and i believe RAY RAY will basically do the same.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area, THE WINNING!!!, US the FANS!! not to mention the doctors there in the area.
 Here is reason why RAY RAY has taken so long to resign....I believe that he hasnt resigned yet or havent said anything about his stance or mindframe because this is pro sports !!!and it is at the end of the day ...FOR ALL OF THE MARBLES!!! so waiting to see how everything pans out is the "PRO" thing to do. WHY u ask? because RAY RAY can actually wait until the absolute end of this whole FA period because it gives AINGE and DOC and their very sound basketball mind the time and knowledge to make the proper adjustments with where players sre signing, what player to really target and why. And just for the record if we sign SHAQ , and believe me i never really thought this was possible(and i am well aware he is past his prime), but if we sign SHAQ we will definitely win the title!!!

Welcome to cb and congrats on weaving your way through the log on. A tp for joining cb and your first post.

And if your next post uses paragraphs I will provide yet one more tp for ya.

thanks bro....lets go get #18!!!! sign Shaq

[Andy Jick]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.

I don't believe the Celtics will do 3 years.  The sticking point is probably more about years than money.  This is Ray's LAST FA contract - he wants YEARS on it.

[GreenEnvy]

If Ray leaves to contend with another team, he'll never be able to step foot in Boston again. After his performance in the Finals, coupled with Boston fans textbook fickleness, things could turn ugly if Ray decides to bolt. I'd hate to see what would happen if he goes somewhere else and helps that team win a championship, leaving behind KG and Paul after all they've done for one another. I just couldn't hold him in the same high esteem that I do now -- but I guess that's why I'm a Boston fan too  

Ah c'mon, it's a business. If we don't match, he has the right to go. It's not like LeBron taking less money to go elsewhere. Or even Pierce leaving his Celtic legacy to chase $$.

If he left, I'd give him a standing O for his contributions to the great Celtics teams he was a part of (like we did with Posey).

But he will be back.

[papa shuttlesworth]

I really think that Ray's options to leave are going to be limited.  Here's a few reasons why:

1) Ray is really only useful to a team looking to contend immediately.  Thus if NY and NJ miss out on LeBron, what's really the point of dropping big money on Ray?  At most, I see one of those teams offering him big money, but for only 1 year.  They're not going to want to take themselves out of the running for next year's FA crop.  

2) Given that case, we can really limit things to just Miami and maybe Chicago.  In the case of Chicago, I'm not sure there's anything they can do on the FA market to make adding Ray really worth their while.  Miami may be a different story.  However, as some of you have already pointed out, Ray's not the greatest fit for them and they'd probably be better going after a Boozer or even a Mike Miller.  

3) The Celtics need Ray.  With Pierce re-signed for 4-years, there no longer is an option to blow it up.  And the Celtics need to be upgrading their roster with the MLE and Sheed's contract, not looking to replace Ray with it.  If anything, I think the C's are more willing to splurge on Ray now than they would've been had Paul not opted out of his deal.  I mean at this point, is the third year really a deal breaker when PP is on the books for four?  

4) A sign and trade isn't going to be easy.  The David Lee thing is absurd, since NY has no motivation to give us a player we can't sign for a player they can.  It doesn't clear them or save them any space.  And most other deals won't work either.  Teams with space will just sign him.  Teams with young talent likely won't want Ray.  And most importantly, if Ray's asking for too much (say 12 million a year), we're going to likely have to take that much salary back ourselves (or darn close to it).  

So for a sign and trade to work, we're either going to have to trade for someone with a shorter deal than Ray's getting, with a team slightly below the cap (so we can take back less salary), or for a player(s) that we'll be happy to be paying 12 million dollars a year 3 years from now.  

Outside of maybe Miami getting silly or New York or New Jersey throwing big money his way for one year, I don't see it happening.  And even the Miami thing doesn't seem likely to me.  I don't see them being able to put together a contender for next year.  They're going to need at least two years of using the MLE (maybe 3) to surround Bosh and Wade with enough talent.  And what's the point of paying a soon-to-be 35-year-old a big deal on the hope he can win you a title in 2011-2012?  

Good post, TP.

Basically, unless some team does something severely unintelligent, Ray Allen will be a Boston Celtic for the next 2+ years.

I agree. Unfortunately, this has not been a good offseason for intelligent signings.

[hubert.the.potato]

Ye

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray? 

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

There's a rumor that NJ and the Pacers have agreed to trade Granger and Harris

Yeah supposedly one of the draft night deals that can't be announced til tomorrow or something right?

Doesn't make much sense for either team if you ask me, but whatever.

Yeah,but I think it favors the Pacers.Paul George would be an above average replacement for Granger in a few years,and would probably thrive under a fringe All Star like Harris,while NJ is stuck without a PG

[LAceltic34]

WOW!!! I am finally logged on. Hello every1 out there in CELTICS NATION!!!! as u can see I am happy to be here ...lol. Now on to some Celtic talk....hey listen up , RAY RAY isnt going NO where...mark my words... Pierce made his move to allow RAY RAY some extra cash, and i believe RAY RAY will basically do the same.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area, THE WINNING!!!, US the FANS!! not to mention the doctors there in the area.
 Here is reason why RAY RAY has taken so long to resign....I believe that he hasnt resigned yet or havent said anything about his stance or mindframe because this is pro sports !!!and it is at the end of the day ...FOR ALL OF THE MARBLES!!! so waiting to see how everything pans out is the "PRO" thing to do. WHY u ask? because RAY RAY can actually wait until the absolute end of this whole FA period because it gives AINGE and DOC and their very sound basketball mind the time and knowledge to make the proper adjustments with where players sre signing, what player to really target and why. And just for the record if we sign SHAQ , and believe me i never really thought this was possible(and i am well aware he is past his prime), but if we sign SHAQ we will definitely win the title!!!

First, welcome to Celtic Blog,

Second, Please, please stop calling him RAY RAY.

Thank you

The entire Celtics call him RAY RAY, so RAY RAY it is ...no disrespect intended fellow Celtic....UBUNTU!!!AND thank u for the open arms...

[GreenEnvy]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.

I don't believe the Celtics will do 3 years.  The sticking point is probably more about years than money.  This is Ray's LAST FA contract - he wants YEARS on it.

It's both.

Otherwise give him 2 years, $27 million. Team option for 3rd year at a reduced salary.

[Jon]

I don't think the third year is such a sticking point now.  The C's have the next two years tied up in big money for Rondo, Paul, and KG.  If after two years they decide they no longer want Ray, it shouldn't be hard to find someone to take his expiring deal off of our hands. 

[Brendan]

Let's make a few assumptions:

1. Ray Allen won't leave for a non-contender
2. Ray Allen won't sign for the MLE or less

These may not be right, but I think Boston will offer him more than the MLE and a contender, so I think that's what it takes to beat BOS' offer.

Candidates to offer more than the MLE w/o a S&T:

NYK, NJN, LAC, MIA, CHI... not sure who else.

LAC could make a deal with Gordon + others to get a SF and then bring in Ray at SG, but it's not likely.

NYK, NJN - probably only if they sign Lebron, I don't think Knicks can sign Lebron and beat an MLE type offer to Ray. They will have to renounce David Lee. I don't think Lebron is going to Nets, but if he does, I could see them making a strong play for Ray and moving their current back court. They could also keep Lee and Harris who might be nice compliments to Lebron anyways. Too many dominoes have to fall on this one, I'm not scared.

MIA - kind of makes sense, let's say they trade Beasley for a true center, sign a couple of minimum guys to fill out the roster and bring in Ray. I think that team still competes. But better to go after a guy like Miller who could give you 5 years instead of 2-3 from Ray. Miller also has the size to switch between SF/SG which will give you some roster flexibility. Additionally gives you the LLE and MLE to fill out the roster for a run in 2012, whereas with Ray you'd want to be in position to make a run right now.

CHI - this one makes the most sense, I think they can land Boozer for less than the max, maybe only a four year deal too. (I'm guessing the chairs are filled when the music stops for him.) Then you sign Ray for a three year deal. That gives you a chance to compete now, Ray and Boozer coming off the books as you start having to pay more for Noah and Rose, and the chance to keep building around what you have. Noah, Boozer, Deng, Ray, Rose is a very nice put together starting 5. [They need to fill out the bench with a trifecta of PJ Brown, Posey, and House to complete the set though ] Plus Ray is comfortable with Thibs, comfortable paying with a PG that controls the ball. I see this as biggest threat.

Dark horse would be CLE just offering the full MLE and Ray getting p---ed that Danny won't go three years, in this situation, Ray might bounce. A max three/four year MLE with max raises gets him through his career and makes as much money as a two year here. And he get's to play with the perfect compliment to his game in Lebron. Again unlikely he takes that pay cut short term though (since he'd be giving up ~4 mill in year one.)

[hubert.the.potato]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.

I don't believe the Celtics will do 3 years.  The sticking point is probably more about years than money.  This is Ray's LAST FA contract - he wants YEARS on it.

It's both.

Otherwise give him 2 years, $27 million. Team option for 3rd year at a reduced salary.

Whoa.He'd make as much as Lebron in his first year then

[GreenEnvy]

Ye

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray? 

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

How many superstar super fast PGs are there?  Three?  Four?  And except Rondo, they are out west.  (Parker, Paul)


And if anything, the playoffs showed the best defender against Rondo was a quick SG that played off Rondo. 

There's Devin Harris in NJ and Rose in Chicago.  And it wouldn't take a superfast, superstar PG to wear out either Ray or Wade.  I would not want to see the results of Ray trying to guard Jameer Nelson in a 7 game series.

Mike

There's a rumor that NJ and the Pacers have agreed to trade Granger and Harris

Yeah supposedly one of the draft night deals that can't be announced til tomorrow or something right?

Doesn't make much sense for either team if you ask me, but whatever.

Yeah,but I think it favors the Pacers.Paul George would be an above average replacement for Granger in a few years,and would probably thrive under a fringe All Star like Harris,while NJ is stuck without a PG

It makes more sense for Indy, but not enough. They could've gotten something better, maybe even a more friendly contract coupled with an expiring one.

Totally don't get it from the Nets POV. Granger is a nice player, but that's a big contract for a great secondary player (but I guess compared to Joe Johnson he's a bargain).

[FatKidsDad]

Here's another reason Ray may stay for less than he may get elsewhere...

His son Walker is getting the best possible medical care in Boston, and Ray has even been named to the Board of Trustees at the Joslin Clinic.

[GreenEnvy]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.

I don't believe the Celtics will do 3 years.  The sticking point is probably more about years than money.  This is Ray's LAST FA contract - he wants YEARS on it.

It's both.

Otherwise give him 2 years, $27 million. Team option for 3rd year at a reduced salary.

Whoa.He'd make as much as Lebron in his first year then

Joe Johnson and Amare will be making more than every other FA this summer.

My point was instead of going 3/$33M, we give him more per season, but for less.

Don't think we should/will, but just saying it's not JUST about the years.

[winsomme]

Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...

Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

I think the Cs will match 10-11 mill for 3 years...that's actually not that outrageous a deal for Ray.

I don't believe the Celtics will do 3 years.  The sticking point is probably more about years than money.  This is Ray's LAST FA contract - he wants YEARS on it.

I think the Cs have to be willing to go 3 years. They have no way to replace Ray, so while they may want to only go 2 years, the decision IMO to give this thing another go had to include the ultimate willingness to go 3.

plus, 3 years isn't all that crazy IMO for Ray. I think he'll be playing at his current level for at least two and then he becomes an expiring once you start the rebuilding process in 2012-2013....

[GreenEnvy]

Here's another reason Ray may stay for less than he may get elsewhere...

His son Walker is getting the best possible medical care in Boston, and Ray has even been named to the Board of Trustees at the Joslin Clinic.

NY can match any city in the world for health care, but I do believe that may weigh in on his decision. He is comfortable in Boston, as is his family (he registered his kids for school for the fall), and he has a bond with this team.

It's gonna take a lot for him to leave.