Author Topic: Think about it....Ray really may leave  (Read 20636 times)

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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2010, 11:46:33 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Why do you think he has to go to a team he wants to go to?  

If he thinks he's worth more than the C's are giving, he gives up his right to complain.

He's been here 3 years he's not Pierce and if they can get a young scorer from a team looking for cap space... bye bye.

Exactly!  TP for that.  He's not Pierce, he won't be offered the same contract range or consideration, and he'll leave for more money.  He's also, IMO, the most sensible player to replace on the starting roster if we are phasing in younger players.  

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2010, 11:47:02 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike


I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2010, 11:47:07 AM »

Offline celts55

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WOW!!! I am finally logged on. Hello every1 out there in CELTICS NATION!!!! as u can see I am happy to be here ...lol. Now on to some Celtic talk....hey listen up , RAY RAY isnt going NO where...mark my words... Pierce made his move to allow RAY RAY some extra cash, and i believe RAY RAY will basically do the same.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area, THE WINNING!!!, US the FANS!! not to mention the doctors there in the area.
 Here is reason why RAY RAY has taken so long to resign....I believe that he hasnt resigned yet or havent said anything about his stance or mindframe because this is pro sports !!!and it is at the end of the day ...FOR ALL OF THE MARBLES!!! so waiting to see how everything pans out is the "PRO" thing to do. WHY u ask? because RAY RAY can actually wait until the absolute end of this whole FA period because it gives AINGE and DOC and their very sound basketball mind the time and knowledge to make the proper adjustments with where players sre signing, what player to really target and why. And just for the record if we sign SHAQ , and believe me i never really thought this was possible(and i am well aware he is past his prime), but if we sign SHAQ we will definitely win the title!!!

First, welcome to Celtic Blog,

Second, Please, please stop calling him RAY RAY.

Thank you

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2010, 11:48:22 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike

what kind of money and years are you talking about Mike?

I can't see anybody offering more than three years to Ray at the age of 34...


Chicago is about 20 million under the cap.  If they miss out on Boozer, I could easily see them offering Ray 10+ million for three years.

Mike

They may even be more under with Hinrich gone.

Still, I don't see them making such a bold move and tie up that much money on a 35 year old, especially with Rose still so young.
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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2010, 11:49:40 AM »

Offline ToppersBsktball10

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.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area,

He actually doesn't like the area...lol

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2010, 11:58:15 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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If he's going to be turning down a lot of money to stay that team is making a mistake.  I don't think Ray's going to get that much but, Ainge might be looking to move him for a younger piece anyway.  

It wouldn't be all bad not having to deal with the inevitable family issue that appears to only happen during the Finals.

Unless they get Mike Miller AND Anthony Morrow, they aren't replacing his value.

Even if they can land both, that's valuable cap relief and the MLE just to replace Ray. Unless we S&T him, we are not getting much better, in fect we lose 'Sheed too, so maybe we are worse.


And Ray never missed a game due to his boy's diabetes, so it's not a team problem.


Well I'm talking sign-and-trade for a younger scorer if possible.
 

It may have been better if he did, ironically.

Such as?

Very hard to S&T him because he would have to go to a team HE wants to go to, and he'd only want to go to a contender. And no contender has a young scorer who helps us, at least not as much as we would be helping said contender.

Unless you have a scenario in mind, I don't see one.

Why do you think he has to go to a team he wants to go to?  

If he thinks he's worth more than the C's are giving, he gives up his right to complain.

He's been here 3 years he's not Pierce and if they can get a young scorer from a team looking for cap space... bye bye.

Sign and trades need to be approved by the player, so of course he has to approve the team along with the contract. He won't be playing for whatever team Danny can strike up a trade with.

If he thinks he is worth more than he is offered from the C's, he has to go out and get it, Danny doesn't have to do it for him, and if he managed to find some trade, it would be hard to make sure all parties (Celtics, Ray, other team) get a fair shake.

If a team is looking for cap space, why are they trading for Ray Allen?

The only teams that want a 35-year-old sharpshooter in the $8-12 million range are elite teams.

You think Danny is gonna do a S&T with another contender and give up Ray? I certainly don't.
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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2010, 11:58:27 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike


I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2010, 11:59:02 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area,

He actually doesn't like the area...lol

I grew up in CT and I don't care for that area from October to June either.. let alone the traffic, etc.  

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2010, 12:00:22 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike


I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike


Wade has the handle.

Wade has the speed.  

Ray opens up the floor for Wade to do what he wants.

Plus, the cross matching (that will likely take place) will often lead to a mismatch for Wade offensively.  


What is the down side?  Not having a small shooter next to Wade?  

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2010, 12:04:36 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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WOW!!! I am finally logged on. Hello every1 out there in CELTICS NATION!!!! as u can see I am happy to be here ...lol. Now on to some Celtic talk....hey listen up , RAY RAY isnt going NO where...mark my words... Pierce made his move to allow RAY RAY some extra cash, and i believe RAY RAY will basically do the same.Now think about it RAY RAY went 2 College right there @UCONN, he loves the area, THE WINNING!!!, US the FANS!! not to mention the doctors there in the area.
 Here is reason why RAY RAY has taken so long to resign....I believe that he hasnt resigned yet or havent said anything about his stance or mindframe because this is pro sports !!!and it is at the end of the day ...FOR ALL OF THE MARBLES!!! so waiting to see how everything pans out is the "PRO" thing to do. WHY u ask? because RAY RAY can actually wait until the absolute end of this whole FA period because it gives AINGE and DOC and their very sound basketball mind the time and knowledge to make the proper adjustments with where players sre signing, what player to really target and why. And just for the record if we sign SHAQ , and believe me i never really thought this was possible(and i am well aware he is past his prime), but if we sign SHAQ we will definitely win the title!!!

Welcome to cb and congrats on weaving your way through the log on. A tp for joining cb and your first post.

And if your next post uses paragraphs I will provide yet one more tp for ya. :)
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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2010, 12:10:47 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike


I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike


Wade has the handle.

Wade has the speed.  

Ray opens up the floor for Wade to do what he wants.

Plus, the cross matching (that will likely take place) will often lead to a mismatch for Wade offensively.  


What is the down side?  Not having a small shooter next to Wade?  

Well, heck!  Let's just have Wade, Bosh and Ray play other teams 3 on 5!  For pete's sake, if fans of any team should understand the importance of having a legitimate point guard, it's Celtics fans.  Would the Celtics have won the title without Rondo and just Ray and Eddie House in the backcourt?

Mike

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2010, 12:11:16 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Ray ain't leaving for Miami.  He's a 2.  Wade is a 2.  Neither can regularly play the 1 or the 3.

Chicago, on the other hand, would be stupid not to throw a lot of money at Ray and dare Ainge to match.

Mike


I disagree.  We have seen many teams be successful with two SGs starting when they have a SG or SF controlling the ball.  (see Chicago with Harper as their PG.  Or the large backcourt duo of Magic and Scott)


What PG is going to take the ball out of Wade's hand?

What PG is going to shoot better then Ray?  

Ray does not have the handle to be a PG and would not be able to guard the top level PG's in the league.  So, if Wade and Ray are your backcourt, Wade is handling the ball 90% of the time and trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker players every night on defense.  How long does that work before Wade keels over?

Mike


Wade has the handle.

Wade has the speed.  

Ray opens up the floor for Wade to do what he wants.

Plus, the cross matching (that will likely take place) will often lead to a mismatch for Wade offensively.  


What is the down side?  Not having a small shooter next to Wade?  
Here's the downside:
1. They can' have him because he's ours ;-)
2. He gets beat like a drum by the quicker point guards of the league. I don't think the heat would want Wade guarding the other teams points most of the time.
3. Ray will have to play better defense than he has played here because Miami's defensive rotations would not be as quick to shut off driving players.
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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2010, 12:12:33 PM »

Offline Dr H

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I will reiterate my position. Ideally, I would love to keep Ray and add complimentary pieces to the Celtics. If Ray plays hardball and expects a 3-4 year deal I immediately call Donnie Walsh and the Knicks. There are reports that the Knicks are interested in Ray. Danny should work a sign and trade for David Lee. The Celtics would be lacking a shooter. Danny could use the full Mid-Level or part Mid-Level plus the Bi-Annual Exception to try to lure JJ Redick or Kyle Korver. This is how I would handle this situation. I am grateful for Ray but I would not sign him for more than two years.

Celtics don't have the bi-annual exception..you only get to use it every other year and it was just used this last season on Marquis Daniels.

Did Ray himself say he doesn't like the area?

Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2010, 12:15:11 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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If he's going to be turning down a lot of money to stay that team is making a mistake.  I don't think Ray's going to get that much but, Ainge might be looking to move him for a younger piece anyway.  

It wouldn't be all bad not having to deal with the inevitable family issue that appears to only happen during the Finals.

Unless they get Mike Miller AND Anthony Morrow, they aren't replacing his value.

Even if they can land both, that's valuable cap relief and the MLE just to replace Ray. Unless we S&T him, we are not getting much better, in fect we lose 'Sheed too, so maybe we are worse.


And Ray never missed a game due to his boy's diabetes, so it's not a team problem.


Well I'm talking sign-and-trade for a younger scorer if possible.
 

It may have been better if he did, ironically.

Such as?

Very hard to S&T him because he would have to go to a team HE wants to go to, and he'd only want to go to a contender. And no contender has a young scorer who helps us, at least not as much as we would be helping said contender.

Unless you have a scenario in mind, I don't see one.

Why do you think he has to go to a team he wants to go to?  

If he thinks he's worth more than the C's are giving, he gives up his right to complain.

He's been here 3 years he's not Pierce and if they can get a young scorer from a team looking for cap space... bye bye.

Sign and trades need to be approved by the player, so of course he has to approve the team along with the contract. He won't be playing for whatever team Danny can strike up a trade with.

If he thinks he is worth more than he is offered from the C's, he has to go out and get it, Danny doesn't have to do it for him, and if he managed to find some trade, it would be hard to make sure all parties (Celtics, Ray, other team) get a fair shake.

If a team is looking for cap space, why are they trading for Ray Allen?

The only teams that want a 35-year-old sharpshooter in the $8-12 million range are elite teams.

You think Danny is gonna do a S&T with another contender and give up Ray? I certainly don't.

Ok you sort of destroyed my post.  TP.

I suppose when you put it like that it's almost Ray or bust although I guess Lee could still be considered a possibility and one I would do in heartbeat and try and find another shooter for lower price.
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Re: Think about it....Ray really may leave
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2010, 12:15:49 PM »

Offline Jon

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I really think that Ray's options to leave are going to be limited.  Here's a few reasons why:

1) Ray is really only useful to a team looking to contend immediately.  Thus if NY and NJ miss out on LeBron, what's really the point of dropping big money on Ray?  At most, I see one of those teams offering him big money, but for only 1 year.  They're not going to want to take themselves out of the running for next year's FA crop.  

2) Given that case, we can really limit things to just Miami and maybe Chicago.  In the case of Chicago, I'm not sure there's anything they can do on the FA market to make adding Ray really worth their while.  Miami may be a different story.  However, as some of you have already pointed out, Ray's not the greatest fit for them and they'd probably be better going after a Boozer or even a Mike Miller.  

3) The Celtics need Ray.  With Pierce re-signed for 4-years, there no longer is an option to blow it up.  And the Celtics need to be upgrading their roster with the MLE and Sheed's contract, not looking to replace Ray with it.  If anything, I think the C's are more willing to splurge on Ray now than they would've been had Paul not opted out of his deal.  I mean at this point, is the third year really a deal breaker when PP is on the books for four?  

4) A sign and trade isn't going to be easy.  The David Lee thing is absurd, since NY has no motivation to give us a player we can't sign for a player they can.  It doesn't clear them or save them any space.  And most other deals won't work either.  Teams with space will just sign him.  Teams with young talent likely won't want Ray.  And most importantly, if Ray's asking for too much (say 12 million a year), we're going to likely have to take that much salary back ourselves (or darn close to it).  

So for a sign and trade to work, we're either going to have to trade for someone with a shorter deal than Ray's getting, with a team slightly below the cap (so we can take back less salary), or for a player(s) that we'll be happy to be paying 12 million dollars a year 3 years from now.  

Outside of maybe Miami getting silly or New York or New Jersey throwing big money his way for one year, I don't see it happening.  And even the Miami thing doesn't seem likely to me.  I don't see them being able to put together a contender for next year.  They're going to need at least two years of using the MLE (maybe 3) to surround Bosh and Wade with enough talent.  And what's the point of paying a soon-to-be 35-year-old a big deal on the hope he can win you a title in 2011-2012?