Is a sign and trade the only way to get value out of Ray and how do we do it?

[Jon]

Again, why would NY want to trade David Lee to us for Ray Allen when they could just sign Ray Allen and not give us (a division rival) David Lee? 

Gaffney and Lafayette hardly make that worthwhile.  More importantly, I don't know if there's anyone outside of BBD that would make them think about doing that.  And if we trade BBD, even with Lee, we're still in a tough place with big men. 

[wdleehi]

Again, why would NY want to trade David Lee to us for Ray Allen when they could just sign Ray Allen and not give us (a division rival) David Lee? 

Gaffney and Lafayette hardly make that worthwhile.  More importantly, I don't know if there's anyone outside of BBD that would make them think about doing that.  And if we trade BBD, even with Lee, we're still in a tough place with big men. 

The story out now is that players like Lebron and Wade want a big and a three point shooter.

Well, NY just added the big (Amare).  Chicago is hoping to add a big (Bosh or Boozer).


So to get a Ray Allen and keep cap space to sign a Lebron or Wade, these team would have to sign and trade. 

[Jon]

Again, why would NY want to trade David Lee to us for Ray Allen when they could just sign Ray Allen and not give us (a division rival) David Lee? 

Gaffney and Lafayette hardly make that worthwhile.  More importantly, I don't know if there's anyone outside of BBD that would make them think about doing that.  And if we trade BBD, even with Lee, we're still in a tough place with big men. 

The story out now is that players like Lebron and Wade want a big and a three point shooter.

Well, NY just added the big (Amare).  Chicago is hoping to add a big (Bosh or Boozer).


So to get a Ray Allen and keep cap space to sign a Lebron or Wade, these team would have to sign and trade. 

But doesn't that not help them at all? 

For instance, hoopshype lists the Knicks as having 18 million dollars on their cap.  However, that's without David Lee's contract.  If that money is truly off the cap, wouldn't they have had to renounce their rights to him?  If that's the case, not only would they have lost their Bird rights to him (making this whole discussion pointless anyway), but there would also be no financial benefit in a sign and trade. 

Am I missing something here? 

[arctic 3.0]

I know that most people don’t want to get rid of Ray, but it just might be the move that allows the Celts to reload and actually improve their team in the long and short run.

Move #1:  Pull off a double sign and trade with the Knicks.  Ray Allen, Oliver Lafayette, & Tony Gaffney for David Lee

I know losing Ray would bother some people, but if the Celts could actually get David Lee, I’d drop off Ray in NY and pick up Lee for the trip back, myself.  Lee probably won’t put up the same numbers he did in NY, here in Boston, but he’d help a lot in terms of spelling KG at the 4 and even playing some of the 5.  Even off the bench, I could envision him playing around 30 to 35 minutes and keeping KG fresh at around 25 minutes.

Move #2:     Trade Rasheed Wallace & Big Baby for Andres Biedrins and Anthony Randolph

Golden State is looking to get rid of some payroll and they might be willing to add Randoph in such a deal if we sweetened the pot with Baby who might actually thrive in Nelly’s small ball.  This will give the Celts the center they’ll need while Perk is sidelined and when he comes back, having him and Biedrins both play around 24 minutes per game might be the best thing for theirs and the Celts effectiveness.  Plus, getting Randolph would give the Celts a young athletic big with the keyword...upside.

Move #3:   Trade next year’s 1st rounder for Rudy Fernandez.

This would give the Celts a possible present day and most likely future replacement for Ray.  Fernandez is athletic and can shoot the three.  Had a bad year with Portland, but he’s young and has a bunch of potential.  Still remember how well he played in the past Olympics.  Don’t sleep on this guy.  He kind of reminds me of a young Ginobili.  Playing with Rondo is just what the doctor ordered for this guy.


Move #4:   Sign Mike Miller for mid level exception.  ($26mill/4yrs)

Miller isn’t Ray, but is younger and cheaper.  Plus, if Fernandez really pans out, he can be an ideal 6th/7th man off the bench playing some 2 and 3.

Celtics rotation:

Center:         Perkins, Biedrins, Erden
Power Forward:      KG, Lee, Randolph, Scalebrine
Small Forward:      Pierce, Miller, Hargody
Shooting Guard:           Fernandez, Tony Allen
Point Guard:      Rondo, Bradley

if only we could pull off # 2.
bidrins is overpaid but the type of athletic shot blocker/defender who will help us even when perk comes back.
I've wanted randolph for a while now I think he could blossom under Cliff Ray and KG.

then all we would need is a mid level shooter like M. Miller, Reddick or, hope beyond hope, A. Morrow.

[Fan from VT]

Again, why would NY want to trade David Lee to us for Ray Allen when they could just sign Ray Allen and not give us (a division rival) David Lee? 

Gaffney and Lafayette hardly make that worthwhile.  More importantly, I don't know if there's anyone outside of BBD that would make them think about doing that.  And if we trade BBD, even with Lee, we're still in a tough place with big men. 

The story out now is that players like Lebron and Wade want a big and a three point shooter.

Well, NY just added the big (Amare).  Chicago is hoping to add a big (Bosh or Boozer).


So to get a Ray Allen and keep cap space to sign a Lebron or Wade, these team would have to sign and trade. 

But doesn't that not help them at all? 

For instance, hoopshype lists the Knicks as having 18 million dollars on their cap.  However, that's without David Lee's contract.  If that money is truly off the cap, wouldn't they have had to renounce their rights to him?  If that's the case, not only would they have lost their Bird rights to him (making this whole discussion pointless anyway), but there would also be no financial benefit in a sign and trade. 

Am I missing something here? 

I think it would have to be Ray and a pick. So then NY's options would be:
-Get Ray, let Lee do whatever he wants
-Get Ray and an extra pick, help Lee land on C's.

So then they'd have a decision: do we help Lee get where he wants and pick up an extra draft pick or is that not worth it?

[Jon]

Again, why would NY want to trade David Lee to us for Ray Allen when they could just sign Ray Allen and not give us (a division rival) David Lee? 

Gaffney and Lafayette hardly make that worthwhile.  More importantly, I don't know if there's anyone outside of BBD that would make them think about doing that.  And if we trade BBD, even with Lee, we're still in a tough place with big men. 

The story out now is that players like Lebron and Wade want a big and a three point shooter.

Well, NY just added the big (Amare).  Chicago is hoping to add a big (Bosh or Boozer).


So to get a Ray Allen and keep cap space to sign a Lebron or Wade, these team would have to sign and trade. 

But doesn't that not help them at all? 

For instance, hoopshype lists the Knicks as having 18 million dollars on their cap.  However, that's without David Lee's contract.  If that money is truly off the cap, wouldn't they have had to renounce their rights to him?  If that's the case, not only would they have lost their Bird rights to him (making this whole discussion pointless anyway), but there would also be no financial benefit in a sign and trade. 

Am I missing something here? 

I think it would have to be Ray and a pick. So then NY's options would be:
-Get Ray, let Lee do whatever he wants
-Get Ray and an extra pick, help Lee land on C's.

So then they'd have a decision: do we help Lee get where he wants and pick up an extra draft pick or is that not worth it?

Yeah, but I'm not sure that makes it worth if for them.  If we weren't in their division, I think it might be one thing.  But giving us Lee makes us still good next year and puts us a step further to staying competitive in the future.  I'm not sure what looks to be the 20-25th pick in the first round is enough to entice NY to do that. 

[Evantime34]

I think with Bosh and Wade going to Miami they make a run at him. Miami wants to move Beasley and I think he would be a perfect fit in Golden State. Golden State wants to move salary.

To Miami: Ray, Biedrins
To Golden State: HUGE trade exception, Beasley, 1st from Miami
To Boston: Monta Ellis

We could get switch Ellis and Beidrins and have Morrow, Turiaf and/or Randolph come our way if Golden State is really trying to shed payroll.

I am prepared to defend this trade please let me know your questions/concerns.

[arctic 3.0]

I think with Bosh and Wade going to Miami they make a run at him. Miami wants to move Beasley and I think he would be a perfect fit in Golden State. Golden State wants to move salary.

To Miami: Ray, Biedrins
To Golden State: HUGE trade exception, Beasley, 1st from Miami
To Boston: Monta Ellis

We could get switch Ellis and Beidrins and have Morrow, Turiaf and/or Randolph come our way if Golden State is really trying to shed payroll.

I am prepared to defend this trade please let me know your questions/concerns.

i'd do this trade for beidrins and morrow or randolph but not for ellis.

I can't see ellis and rondo clicking since both need the rock to be effective.

[Evantime34]

I think with Bosh and Wade going to Miami they make a run at him. Miami wants to move Beasley and I think he would be a perfect fit in Golden State. Golden State wants to move salary.

To Miami: Ray, Biedrins
To Golden State: HUGE trade exception, Beasley, 1st from Miami
To Boston: Monta Ellis

We could get switch Ellis and Beidrins and have Morrow, Turiaf and/or Randolph come our way if Golden State is really trying to shed payroll.

I am prepared to defend this trade please let me know your questions/concerns.

i'd do this trade for beidrins and morrow or randolph but not for ellis.

I can't see ellis and rondo clicking since both need the rock to be effective.

I guess you could give Miami Ray and Ellis but I'm not sure they would want a combo guard and 2 shooting guard's starting for them.
You could also give us Ellis and Biedrins but then Sheed needs to go with him and Ray needs to be paid close to 12 MM for it to work under the cap.

[GreenEnvy]

I know that most people don’t want to get rid of Ray, but it just might be the move that allows the Celts to reload and actually improve their team in the long and short run.

Move #1:  Pull off a double sign and trade with the Knicks.  Ray Allen, Oliver Lafayette, & Tony Gaffney for David Lee

I know losing Ray would bother some people, but if the Celts could actually get David Lee, I’d drop off Ray in NY and pick up Lee for the trip back, myself.  Lee probably won’t put up the same numbers he did in NY, here in Boston, but he’d help a lot in terms of spelling KG at the 4 and even playing some of the 5.  Even off the bench, I could envision him playing around 30 to 35 minutes and keeping KG fresh at around 25 minutes.

Move #2:     Trade Rasheed Wallace & Big Baby for Andres Biedrins and Anthony Randolph

Golden State is looking to get rid of some payroll and they might be willing to add Randoph in such a deal if we sweetened the pot with Baby who might actually thrive in Nelly’s small ball.  This will give the Celts the center they’ll need while Perk is sidelined and when he comes back, having him and Biedrins both play around 24 minutes per game might be the best thing for theirs and the Celts effectiveness.  Plus, getting Randolph would give the Celts a young athletic big with the keyword...upside.

Move #3:   Trade next year’s 1st rounder for Rudy Fernandez.

This would give the Celts a possible present day and most likely future replacement for Ray.  Fernandez is athletic and can shoot the three.  Had a bad year with Portland, but he’s young and has a bunch of potential.  Still remember how well he played in the past Olympics.  Don’t sleep on this guy.  He kind of reminds me of a young Ginobili.  Playing with Rondo is just what the doctor ordered for this guy.


Move #4:   Sign Mike Miller for mid level exception.  ($26mill/4yrs)

Miller isn’t Ray, but is younger and cheaper.  Plus, if Fernandez really pans out, he can be an ideal 6th/7th man off the bench playing some 2 and 3.

Celtics rotation:

Center:         Perkins, Biedrins, Erden
Power Forward:      KG, Lee, Randolph, Scalebrine
Small Forward:      Pierce, Miller, Hargody
Shooting Guard:           Fernandez, Tony Allen
Point Guard:      Rondo, Bradley

The ONLY way to get value out of Ray, realistically, is to resign him.