Is a sign and trade the only way to get value out of Ray and how do we do it?

[csfansince60s]

Signing Ray seems only logical move, as many on here have stated.
However, literally and figuratively, at what price?

As has been rehashed here over and over, signing Ray makes sense for many reasons. First, given our cap situation, we can't get a FA other than Ray for over the MLE. If we use the MLE on a Ray replacement, he'll highly unlikely ever be as good, and also our flexibility to get anyone else, except for the vet minimum is compromised. So where does that leave us? So I think that many are in agreement that signing Ray to a reasonable deal at reasonable $$$ for a reasonable amount of time (ideally 2 years to expire with KG) is the only way to maximize our chances for next year by giving us the flexibility to use the full MLE.

The problem, I think, though, given this free agent market, is that there are so many teams with so much cap space (Bulls, Heat, Nets, Knicks, Clips, Wiz, etc,)that we have already seen Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay?? get max deals. In addition, Dirk and PP got 4 year deals. None of this bodes well for signing Ray for reasonable $$$ for a reasonable time. There will be two types of suitors for RA. The first and the hungriest, will be those franchises who got shut out of the free agent free for all. The second will be those who got 1 piece, or even maybe 2 (e.g LBJ and Bosh) who will look to RA as that final piece to the puzzle. Either way, there are too many teams with $$$ to spend and not enough big time FAs to go around.

I think, due to the above circumstances, that our only realistic and viable way to get any value for RA is via a S&T. I know this is a complicated scenario and don't fully understand the machinations of how a S&T works with either a S&T player from one team with a S&T player of another or with just one team having a S&T player and the other a player or players from the regular roster or some combination thereof.

Any ideas how to maximize RA through S&Ts.

 

[csfansince60s]

Thought this might be an appropriate time to give this a bump considering the "news" about RA's intentions.

Any ideas on S&Ts?

[Fan from VT]

To the cavs for Mo williams and verejao? Probably too greedy.

[Fan from VT]

But yes, with the pierce deal it makes sense to use the MLE to fill a frontcourt need and use bird rights to outbid other teams' MLE offers for Ray

OR

Use ray in a s&t to replace him then MLE for frontcourt

OR

Use ray in s&t to replace a frontcourt player then use MLE to replace Ray

[Fafnir]

To the cavs for Mo williams and verejao? Probably too greedy.

Way too greedy.

I'd S&T Ray Allen for just AV in a heartbeat. We can find a wing with the MLE to replace Ray Allen. No way we can find a big man of AV's caliber for the MLE.

[ThaPreacher]

This is a curious situation.  The Celtics stay loyal to Ray
and don't trade him prior to the deadline in February. His game steadies and his playing improves. He has a decent postseason.  Solid defense and some great performances.  

It is entirely possible that Ray is just waiting to see what the market will offer.   A sign and trade basically puts us where we were in February, however if that happens we are basically at the mercy of the team that signs him.  

Hard to replace a sharpshooter that plays defense.

But do you actually think Doc would be back if he didn't believe he would have his players back.  Let's see how this unfolds.  Barring a Bosh/Lebron joing of Dwade.  I don't think Ray goes to Cleveland or New York.

[CoachBo]

Depends on whether the team that signs him has any cap room.

If it's Cleveland and they want Ray, they're at our mercy - they have no cap room.

[JSD]

To the cavs for Mo williams and verejao? Probably too greedy.

Way too greedy.

I'd S&T Ray Allen for just AV in a heartbeat. We can find a wing with the MLE to replace Ray Allen. No way we can find a big man of AV's caliber for the MLE.

I was thinking about AV situation when Bron is officially gone. Would Cleveland accept Sheed's instant relief and 1st rounder for him? That'd be nice...

Under no circumstances should we trade Ray for him though. If Bron leaves why would they want Allen? And if he stays why would we strengthen the Cavs?

Allen and Brad Miller > AV and Mike Miller -- Maybe not for the future but for what matters, the next 2 years.

[Who]

To the cavs for Mo williams and verejao? Probably too greedy.

Way too greedy.

I'd S&T Ray Allen for just AV in a heartbeat. We can find a wing with the MLE to replace Ray Allen. No way we can find a big man of AV's caliber for the MLE.

I was thinking about AV situation when Bron is officially gone. Would Cleveland accept Sheed's instant relief and 1st rounder for him? That'd be nice...

Under no circumstances should we trade Ray for him though. If Bron leaves why would they want Allen? And if he stays why would we strengthen the Cavs?

Allen and Brad Miller > AV and Mike Miller -- Maybe not for the future but for what matters, the next 2 years.

I disagree, I think Varejao and M.Miller are a vastly superior duo than Ray Ray and B.Miller.

I would rather have Varejao than Ray Allen and think Mike Miller is about equal to Ray. I don't consider Brad Miller a rotation worthy player. A fifth or sixth big in the depth chart.

[wdleehi]

Celtics would need one of the FA stars telling the team they will go to them only if they get Ray.

In that case, you can get real value for Ray.

NY with Lee

Chi with Deng (and another piece?)

[Vermont Green]

Celtics would need one of the FA stars telling the team they will go to them only if they get Ray.

In that case, you can get real value for Ray.

NY with Lee

Chi with Deng (and another piece?)

I find it hard to believe that any of the Big FA would see more value in Ray than either Lee or Deng but if it came to  that, I am sure that Danny would make the trades (in the case of Deng, I guess PP moves to SG).

[Jon]

Celtics would need one of the FA stars telling the team they will go to them only if they get Ray.

In that case, you can get real value for Ray.

NY with Lee

Chi with Deng (and another piece?)

Again, why would NY want to trade their free agent for our free agent?  No one seems to be able to explain this to me.  Has Kevin McHale been hired as their GM? 

[arctic 3.0]

Celtics would need one of the FA stars telling the team they will go to them only if they get Ray.

In that case, you can get real value for Ray.

NY with Lee

Chi with Deng (and another piece?)

is good!
add taj gibson to the chi deal and we are half way to rebuilding on the fly!

only way this happens is if chi thinks it can get two of lbj/wade/bosh and needs to clear more cap space. in which case I don't know how much I want to help them out.

[JSD]

To the cavs for Mo williams and verejao? Probably too greedy.

Way too greedy.

I'd S&T Ray Allen for just AV in a heartbeat. We can find a wing with the MLE to replace Ray Allen. No way we can find a big man of AV's caliber for the MLE.

I was thinking about AV situation when Bron is officially gone. Would Cleveland accept Sheed's instant relief and 1st rounder for him? That'd be nice...

Under no circumstances should we trade Ray for him though. If Bron leaves why would they want Allen? And if he stays why would we strengthen the Cavs?

Allen and Brad Miller > AV and Mike Miller -- Maybe not for the future but for what matters, the next 2 years.

I don't consider Brad Miller a rotation worthy player. A fifth or sixth big in the depth chart.

 

[ghost_of_davidthirdkill]

I know that most people don’t want to get rid of Ray, but it just might be the move that allows the Celts to reload and actually improve their team in the long and short run.

Move #1:  Pull off a double sign and trade with the Knicks.  Ray Allen, Oliver Lafayette, & Tony Gaffney for David Lee

I know losing Ray would bother some people, but if the Celts could actually get David Lee, I’d drop off Ray in NY and pick up Lee for the trip back, myself.  Lee probably won’t put up the same numbers he did in NY, here in Boston, but he’d help a lot in terms of spelling KG at the 4 and even playing some of the 5.  Even off the bench, I could envision him playing around 30 to 35 minutes and keeping KG fresh at around 25 minutes.

Move #2:     Trade Rasheed Wallace & Big Baby for Andres Biedrins and Anthony Randolph

Golden State is looking to get rid of some payroll and they might be willing to add Randoph in such a deal if we sweetened the pot with Baby who might actually thrive in Nelly’s small ball.  This will give the Celts the center they’ll need while Perk is sidelined and when he comes back, having him and Biedrins both play around 24 minutes per game might be the best thing for theirs and the Celts effectiveness.  Plus, getting Randolph would give the Celts a young athletic big with the keyword...upside.

Move #3:   Trade next year’s 1st rounder for Rudy Fernandez.

This would give the Celts a possible present day and most likely future replacement for Ray.  Fernandez is athletic and can shoot the three.  Had a bad year with Portland, but he’s young and has a bunch of potential.  Still remember how well he played in the past Olympics.  Don’t sleep on this guy.  He kind of reminds me of a young Ginobili.  Playing with Rondo is just what the doctor ordered for this guy.


Move #4:   Sign Mike Miller for mid level exception.  ($26mill/4yrs)

Miller isn’t Ray, but is younger and cheaper.  Plus, if Fernandez really pans out, he can be an ideal 6th/7th man off the bench playing some 2 and 3.

Celtics rotation:

Center:         Perkins, Biedrins, Erden
Power Forward:      KG, Lee, Randolph, Scalebrine
Small Forward:      Pierce, Miller, Hargody
Shooting Guard:           Fernandez, Tony Allen
Point Guard:      Rondo, Bradley