The price we paid for Banner 17

[jjbay7]

I don't get it ... the endless trade threads ... talk of "desperation moves" .... panic about it "all being over" ... our future is limited and grim!

Man, this team just missed ANOTHER championship by four points! And I can argue that we were legitimately robbed of it ... so what the heck is all the worry about?!?

These guys are still one of the best teams in the NBA ... AS IS! And four months rest and training isn't going to change that!

Chill out, people ... we are ready for another deep playoff run right now ... with no chnages at all! I'm honestly stunned at the amount of "What are we gonna do now?" talk ...

Did this team somehow become impotent overnight or something?!? We have an awesome team as it stands, and if changes are made because of our draft picks, then we can assess them realistically.

But EVERY other team in the NBA would love to have made it as far as we did this year ... and people want to give up the ghost?!?

Sorry ... don't get it. The price we paid for Banner 17 was an incredible team, that almost won us Banner 18, (due to questionable circumstances), and give us a great shot at it next season!

We didn't pay anything, IMHO ... we were given a gift!

this was same logic used after 1987 champ series and celtics aging players. that cost us another 20years to bounce back! alot of things is timing. and like one notable person said "this summer will make and break franchises and determine teams for this decade"

Not really.  There was a plan in place: unfortunately Bias and Lewis died. 

More importantly, it wasn't holding on to the Big Three that hurt us, it was stupid drafts, stupid signings, stupid trades, and just general bad luck (not getting the #1 pick in '97--had that happened, no one would be talking about holding onto the original Big Three and Pitino would probably still be president of the C's). 

Most importantly, what exactly can the C's accomplish this summer?  They have no cap room and KG still has two years left on his deal, so he's hardly a commodity.  Most teams interested in Ray Allen will either just straight up sign him or won't have what we want in return.  The fact of the matter is that Ray is only useful if you're close to contending.  Most teams in that boat don't have a ton of young players to deal. 

The C's will need to make some smart moves in the future.  But not this summer.  It'll be partially next summer, but even more so in the summer of 2012 when KG comes off the books.  And let's also remember, in today's NBA, cap space cleared by the Big Three can be just as valuable as trading them.  So by no means do we have to deal anyone to make anything happen. 

good points. im just talking in principle though. we dont need to get content again in making our team better. i know this is not popular idea but i think we trade for rondo and one other player for chris paul and posey to play with big3, i believe someone had this as rumor in another post. i just think if we deal with rondo involved we can do something. i think rondo is one of those players whose 'good' because of team hes on. any young guard in league could have played with big3 in last few years and looked good. plus doc rivers knew how to deal with rondos personality, so esp. if hes leaving. in summer 2007 NO ONE predicted ainge would or could do what he did. "anything is possible"

[prov1ml34]

The "price we paid" is looking to be less and less.  The assets that we gave up  have all depreciated substantially since the trades.  We gave up the half-crippled Big Al, who I still think can be a franchise cornerstone, but whose value is essentially nil today.  We gave up Delonte West, whose own issues are deep and well-documented.  We gave up the rights to Jeff Green (which likely would have been the rights to Yi...  ugh).  We gave up on Gerald Green, who's out of the league, and Ryan Gomes, who's been rumored to be a buyout candidate.

In retrospect...  really wasn't all that much to give up for a helluva three-year run (hopefully four).

As to not having any cap flexibility now...  well, if we've got to suffer through two years of decline, I can live with that.  Best-case, we'd only be a fringe playoff squad had we not made the trades.

You forgot Wally Z....that right there was a big price that we paid for Banner 17, I may truly never get over it....

[Greenbean]

I don't get it ... the endless trade threads ... talk of "desperation moves" .... panic about it "all being over" ... our future is limited and grim!

Man, this team just missed ANOTHER championship by four points! And I can argue that we were legitimately robbed of it ... so what the heck is all the worry about?!?

These guys are still one of the best teams in the NBA ... AS IS! And four months rest and training isn't going to change that!

Chill out, people ... we are ready for another deep playoff run right now ... with no chnages at all! I'm honestly stunned at the amount of "What are we gonna do now?" talk ...

Did this team somehow become impotent overnight or something?!? We have an awesome team as it stands, and if changes are made because of our draft picks, then we can assess them realistically.

But EVERY other team in the NBA would love to have made it as far as we did this year ... and people want to give up the ghost?!?

Sorry ... don't get it. The price we paid for Banner 17 was an incredible team, that almost won us Banner 18, (due to questionable circumstances), and give us a great shot at it next season!

We didn't pay anything, IMHO ... we were given a gift!

this was same logic used after 1987 champ series and celtics aging players. that cost us another 20years to bounce back! alot of things is timing. and like one notable person said "this summer will make and break franchises and determine teams for this decade"

Not really.  There was a plan in place: unfortunately Bias and Lewis died. 

More importantly, it wasn't holding on to the Big Three that hurt us, it was stupid drafts, stupid signings, stupid trades, and just general bad luck (not getting the #1 pick in '97--had that happened, no one would be talking about holding onto the original Big Three and Pitino would probably still be president of the C's). 

Most importantly, what exactly can the C's accomplish this summer?  They have no cap room and KG still has two years left on his deal, so he's hardly a commodity.  Most teams interested in Ray Allen will either just straight up sign him or won't have what we want in return.  The fact of the matter is that Ray is only useful if you're close to contending.  Most teams in that boat don't have a ton of young players to deal. 

The C's will need to make some smart moves in the future.  But not this summer.  It'll be partially next summer, but even more so in the summer of 2012 when KG comes off the books.  And let's also remember, in today's NBA, cap space cleared by the Big Three can be just as valuable as trading them.  So by no means do we have to deal anyone to make anything happen. 

good points. im just talking in principle though. we dont need to get content again in making our team better. i know this is not popular idea but i think we trade for rondo and one other player for chris paul and posey to play with big3, i believe someone had this as rumor in another post. i just think if we deal with rondo involved we can do something. i think rondo is one of those players whose 'good' because of team hes on. any young guard in league could have played with big3 in last few years and looked good. plus doc rivers knew how to deal with rondos personality, so esp. if hes leaving. in summer 2007 NO ONE predicted ainge would or could do what he did. "anything is possible"

You are wrong about Rondo and I will debate the topic to the death. Did you watch the playoffs this year? Or last year? I am steaming right now reading your post. I have to click away from this thread before I get angry.

[bobdelt]

I don't get it ... the endless trade threads ... talk of "desperation moves" .... panic about it "all being over" ... our future is limited and grim!

Man, this team just missed ANOTHER championship by four points! And I can argue that we were legitimately robbed of it ... so what the heck is all the worry about?!?

These guys are still one of the best teams in the NBA ... AS IS! And four months rest and training isn't going to change that!

Chill out, people ... we are ready for another deep playoff run right now ... with no chnages at all! I'm honestly stunned at the amount of "What are we gonna do now?" talk ...

Did this team somehow become impotent overnight or something?!? We have an awesome team as it stands, and if changes are made because of our draft picks, then we can assess them realistically.

But EVERY other team in the NBA would love to have made it as far as we did this year ... and people want to give up the ghost?!?

Sorry ... don't get it. The price we paid for Banner 17 was an incredible team, that almost won us Banner 18, (due to questionable circumstances), and give us a great shot at it next season!

We didn't pay anything, IMHO ... we were given a gift!

this was same logic used after 1987 champ series and celtics aging players. that cost us another 20years to bounce back! alot of things is timing. and like one notable person said "this summer will make and break franchises and determine teams for this decade"

I disagree... the 20 years was due to bad fortune, bad drafts, bad contracts.

My point here is that we dont want to get ourselves into a bad contract again. Don't give pierce and allen 3+ years. I say pay them a lot for 2, and have KG, PP, RA all come off the books at the same time. Leaving only Rondo + Perk under contract and then hit the lottery and free agency.

[Bahku]

I don't get it ... the endless trade threads ... talk of "desperation moves" .... panic about it "all being over" ... our future is limited and grim!

Man, this team just missed ANOTHER championship by four points! And I can argue that we were legitimately robbed of it ... so what the heck is all the worry about?!?

These guys are still one of the best teams in the NBA ... AS IS! And four months rest and training isn't going to change that!

Chill out, people ... we are ready for another deep playoff run right now ... with no chnages at all! I'm honestly stunned at the amount of "What are we gonna do now?" talk ...

Did this team somehow become impotent overnight or something?!? We have an awesome team as it stands, and if changes are made because of our draft picks, then we can assess them realistically.

But EVERY other team in the NBA would love to have made it as far as we did this year ... and people want to give up the ghost?!?

Sorry ... don't get it. The price we paid for Banner 17 was an incredible team, that almost won us Banner 18, (due to questionable circumstances), and give us a great shot at it next season!

We didn't pay anything, IMHO ... we were given a gift!

this was same logic used after 1987 champ series and celtics aging players. that cost us another 20years to bounce back! alot of things is timing. and like one notable person said "this summer will make and break franchises and determine teams for this decade"

Not really.  There was a plan in place: unfortunately Bias and Lewis died. 

More importantly, it wasn't holding on to the Big Three that hurt us, it was stupid drafts, stupid signings, stupid trades, and just general bad luck (not getting the #1 pick in '97--had that happened, no one would be talking about holding onto the original Big Three and Pitino would probably still be president of the C's). 

Most importantly, what exactly can the C's accomplish this summer?  They have no cap room and KG still has two years left on his deal, so he's hardly a commodity.  Most teams interested in Ray Allen will either just straight up sign him or won't have what we want in return.  The fact of the matter is that Ray is only useful if you're close to contending.  Most teams in that boat don't have a ton of young players to deal. 

The C's will need to make some smart moves in the future.  But not this summer.  It'll be partially next summer, but even more so in the summer of 2012 when KG comes off the books.  And let's also remember, in today's NBA, cap space cleared by the Big Three can be just as valuable as trading them.  So by no means do we have to deal anyone to make anything happen. 

good points. im just talking in principle though. we dont need to get content again in making our team better. i know this is not popular idea but i think we trade for rondo and one other player for chris paul and posey to play with big3, i believe someone had this as rumor in another post. i just think if we deal with rondo involved we can do something. i think rondo is one of those players whose 'good' because of team hes on. any young guard in league could have played with big3 in last few years and looked good. plus doc rivers knew how to deal with rondos personality, so esp. if hes leaving. in summer 2007 NO ONE predicted ainge would or could do what he did. "anything is possible"

You are wrong about Rondo and I will debate the topic to the death. Did you watch the playoffs this year? Or last year? I am steaming right now reading your post. I have to click away from this thread before I get angry.

TP, Beaner ... Rondo has got to remain the core that this team builds around for the future ... any trade involving him would be absolutely absurd, (but don't worry ... Danny knows that).

[paintitgreen]

Ainge got this team back to being one of the upper echelon teams in the league. The NBA is going more in the direction of MLB than the NFL - a league of haves and have-nots. We have an ownership group willing to spend to succeed, because they know success will bring in revenue (something that just isn't guaranteed in a lot of other cities, making bigtime spending impracticable). We have a GM who, while I have criticized him in the past for being fickle and sometimes disingenuous, is creative and aggressive about getting talent on the roster and wants to win. Those are two key factors in continuing success.

Don't forget that apart from bad luck and bad drafting in the 90s and early 00s, the Celtics were crippled by terrible ownership from Paul Gaston. Bad, meddling ownership and incompetent management sets the tone for continuing futility, as seen with franchises like the Clippers, Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Hawks (yeah, they had a decent two year run, but they've had a terrible few decades), and Knicks over the past couple decades. Boston no longer has that.

And when you detail what we had and gave up, it really wasn't much. The Celtics are not a team that relied on multiple high draft picks or huge free agent signings. This was a team built through smart draft decisions outside the lottery (Pierce the only player on the roster drafted by the Celtics in the lottery) and good trades. That can continue.

[Q_FBE]

No price is too high for a Championship Ring.

All we have to do to get back to the winners circle is add some rebounders - Sheed's contract should help us there.

What would it cost to pick up Leon Powe?

Avery Bradley sounds like a WINNER!

Resign Ray Allen - that is paramount.

Extend Paul Pierce - that is paramount. (If he is a team player he opts out of 21.5 million and resigns 4 years - 51.5 million -11, 12.5, 14.0, 15.5) Woah just found 11.5 million. Can easily sign up both the Allens for that.

Rasheed Wallace retired - That would be another 6 million off the books - negotiate the buyout cap number and trade for a player or players looking to change teams that can rebound - perhaps Leon Powe and Jamario Moon.... or Micheal Beasley as I have read here.  Another player I am interested in is DeSagna Siop.

Got to keep KG, Perk, Glen Davis, Rondo.

I would like to give NateRob another chance. 

Hope Doc Rivers will return, because there is nobody to fill his motivating shoes. 

It's worth it to stay in the chase for at least another season.
I think we still have the Midlevel to go out 

[Eja117]

Still worth it.

What he said

[ScoobyDoo]

If we had won #18 this year ( Maybe had Perk not gone down, we would have. Though I still think we just gave it away, with or without Perk...), we would have accomplished:

2008: #17
2009: ECF ( without KG ),most definately finals with him
2010: within 4 points of #18
2011: If we reload properly ( evenw ith other moves in the east, I still say we can get to the finals one more time, maybe raise #18.

So in four years that would be ( best case scenario moving forward from here...

2 titles / game 7 of another finals and the ECF.

Not too bad...I'll take that.

And when we're done? Rondo and Perk to rebuild around at 26 or 27... 

[SamuelAdams]

Worth It !!   Oh Emm Gee

[jjbay7]

i mean guys i just dont share the same hope about rondo as the rest of you guys. yes hes a hardworker and has developed well because of the program hes in and taking advantage being around veterans. IMO. again MY opinion. i saw guy who was inconsistent. cant shoot jumper or free throws. i dont see guy who is all aroud player.does he have potential? of course we can say that about anybody, including nate robinson. NR was only around program few months, can u imagine if hed been around these guys 3years as well. my thing is trade value while we can. rondo IMO is as good as guys around him. yea a guy will have a game now and then where it seems he carries a team, but im talkin bout consistency. chris paul will give us that all around game night in and night out. we have him, we win seris in 5 vs lakers. now rondo is great defense and rebounder. but we need to get value while we can. to win now! in this last 2year window for big 3. like someone said above, big3 not gettin any younger, Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. im not either lol...in 2012 then we focus on younger talent and next generation.

[bobdelt]

i mean guys i just dont share the same hope about rondo as the rest of you guys. yes hes a hardworker and has developed well because of the program hes in and taking advantage being around veterans. IMO. again MY opinion. i saw guy who was inconsistent. cant shoot jumper or free throws. i dont see guy who is all aroud player.does he have potential? of course we can say that about anybody, including nate robinson. NR was only around program few months, can u imagine if hed been around these guys 3years as well. my thing is trade value while we can. rondo IMO is as good as guys around him. yea a guy will have a game now and then where it seems he carries a team, but im talkin bout consistency. chris paul will give us that all around game night in and night out. we have him, we win seris in 5 vs lakers. now rondo is great defense and rebounder. but we need to get value while we can. to win now! in this last 2year window for big 3. like someone said above, big3 not gettin any younger, **** im not either lol...in 2012 then we focus on younger talent and next generation.

I could easily argue that being around future hall of famers hurt Rondo's development. Imagine if he didnt feel like he had to maintain three big egos at all times?

One of the biggest knock on Rondo is that he could be more aggressive offensively, hard to do with Pierce walking off the floor when he doesnt get the ball when he wants it.

His free throw shooting will improve. His shooting improve drastically, I have confidence the free throws will follow.

What he did in these playoffs, are done every five years or so. His triple doubles are evidence of his talents and future.

Yes I agree there's question marks, but his passing, finishing (on most nights), rebounding (for a guard), and his defense cant be taught. Look at Lebron when he entered the league. He could not shoot at all. His biggest knock was he couldnt make a jump shot. Now? Lebron can pull up 5 ft behind the arc and you want to get a hand up still.

Rondo will improve his shooting, and most importantly, he'll get more opportunities, which really hampered his development this year, IMO.

[ajgoodman]

and his defense cant be taught.

Rondo could not be any more of an over-rated defender. His complete lack of intensity and effort with one on one defense is fabricated by his steal numbers, which are due to ridiculous gambles that 9/10 times result in an easy bucket.  I agree that Rondo is a player with star potential, but franchise player? I don't think so.  If you're going to "build around Rondo" you're going to build a team like the 2004 Pistons, where Rondo is not the dominant "man".  I really doubt playing with the Big Three hindered Rondo's development when teams were taking chances on defense leaving him to do what he pleases.  I'm curious to see how Rondo would do if he was the focus of a defense, but with his offensive limitations, I can't put him in the same league as franchise point guards like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.  He's close to them, but he isn't.

[Celtics Fan]

and his defense cant be taught.

Rondo could not be any more of an over-rated defender. His complete lack of intensity and effort with one on one defense is fabricated by his steal numbers, which are due to ridiculous gambles that 9/10 times result in an easy bucket.  I agree that Rondo is a player with star potential, but franchise player? I don't think so.  If you're going to "build around Rondo" you're going to build a team like the 2004 Pistons, where Rondo is not the dominant "man".  I really doubt playing with the Big Three hindered Rondo's development when teams were taking chances on defense leaving him to do what he pleases.  I'm curious to see how Rondo would do if he was the focus of a defense, but with his offensive limitations, I can't put him in the same league as franchise point guards like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.  He's close to them, but he isn't.

NBA First Team all denfense? Nuff said. All he has to do is get that mid range jumper game down. His Defense is fine, you guys whine to much, lets go back and get Sabtain, or Delonte? HUH YEAH thats what I thought nuff said whiner.

[BballTim]

and his defense cant be taught.

Rondo could not be any more of an over-rated defender. His complete lack of intensity and effort with one on one defense is fabricated by his steal numbers, which are due to ridiculous gambles that 9/10 times result in an easy bucket.

  I can't believe people are still going with this nonsense. Before the season started the gms, in a poll, picked Rondo as the best perimeter defender in the league. He finished 4th in defensive player of the year, ahead of any other guard (pg or sg). He was first team all defense and, I believe, had the 2nd highest vote total behind only Dwight Howard. Nba coaches vote for these things. It's pretty clear that the people who know the league the best feel that Rondo isn't just a good defender but one of the best.

  Oh, and opposing pgs don't get a lot of inside shots, assists or points in general when Rondo plays, so those 20 or so "easy buckets" a game aren't really happening.