Ray Allen, the first domino of the Celtics offseason

[snowball]

i voted no in the poll but now i'm prepared to keep Ray if he is willing to work for this very reasonable amount.
often his shooting is what wins us games, there is no disputing that. we would be unable to get someone comparable for the same amount.
But I would trade him for Turkoglu in a heartbeat.

[Lucky17]

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.    

TP, Chris. I thought something was off there.

[snively]

Per ESPN Insider:

Ray Allen, 34, just finished his 14th season in the NBA. Allen and Celtics management have said they don't want to part, but it could happen if Allen wants a long contract.

Allen made $19.27 million this season and will be offered between $5 million to $6 million from the Celtics and the new contract will probably be for only two years

Per Boston Herald:

One league official recently placed Allen’s value on the wildly competitive free agent market at approximately mid-level exception range, or about $5.6 million. This takes into account the number of premium players who will be contending for max contract money, the number of second-tier free agents and even some thought to be max-level honing in on Rajon Rondo [stats]-level money, or roughly $11 million per season.

Allen’s value, however, could be on the rise, especially for a contender like Cleveland that is expected to embark on a serious search for outside shooting help.

But there’s little doubting the 34-year-old Allen’s intent.

“I’ll deal with that when the time comes, but it’s obvious that I don’t want to be anywhere else,” Allen said following the Game 7 loss to the Lakers last Thursday in Los Angeles.

Indeed, everyone from Allen’s mother, Flo, to his wife, Shannon, have expressed a desire to remain in the Boston area.

Good to know Momma Allen wants Ray in Boston.

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.   

Kudos for the media critique.  Mark Murphy has been pretty consistently inaccurate.

[nickagneta]

Per ESPN Insider:

Ray Allen, 34, just finished his 14th season in the NBA. Allen and Celtics management have said they don't want to part, but it could happen if Allen wants a long contract.

Allen made $19.27 million this season and will be offered between $5 million to $6 million from the Celtics and the new contract will probably be for only two years

Per Boston Herald:

One league official recently placed Allen’s value on the wildly competitive free agent market at approximately mid-level exception range, or about $5.6 million. This takes into account the number of premium players who will be contending for max contract money, the number of second-tier free agents and even some thought to be max-level honing in on Rajon Rondo [stats]-level money, or roughly $11 million per season.

Allen’s value, however, could be on the rise, especially for a contender like Cleveland that is expected to embark on a serious search for outside shooting help.

But there’s little doubting the 34-year-old Allen’s intent.

“I’ll deal with that when the time comes, but it’s obvious that I don’t want to be anywhere else,” Allen said following the Game 7 loss to the Lakers last Thursday in Los Angeles.

Indeed, everyone from Allen’s mother, Flo, to his wife, Shannon, have expressed a desire to remain in the Boston area.

Good to know Momma Allen wants Ray in Boston.

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.    

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to think that the Celtics will only offer a 2 year deal at MLE type money to Ray.

1.) They know he wants to stay here and after Danny spoke personally with both Ray and his wife at the trading deadline, I am sure he understands better than anyone how important it is to the entire Allen family to stay in Boston. This isn't stuff he would normally get just from speaking to an agent. I think Danny realizes just how low he can go on an offer and still have the Allen's accept it because of their desire not to want to uproot.

2.) It makes perfect sense to only want to offer a two year deal to Ray. It makes more sense to only offer a one year deal to Ray but that's not going to happen. We all are quite aware of when the Big Three era will end, it is with the expiration of KG's contract. Ray isn't getting an offer that will go past that contract. It just isn't happening.

3.) Until someone with more than just the MLE to offer Ray comes forward and offers Ray more than that, what incentive do the Celtics have to offer more? Do they really need to reward Ray for work he has already been paid handsomely for? No. So until there is someone to bid against that will offer Ray more than the MLE why would the Celtics bid against themselves and offer more money? That's just stupid. As BBD's contract negotiations proved last year, there's no reason to make a large offer until there's a need to make a large offer.

All in all, not only do I believe the stories but I think they make all the sense in the world. Ray is 35 years old. His days of 8 figure per year deals are over. Now if New York or Chicago wants to come in and offer him a three year deal at $33 million to $45 million, I say thanks, Ray, you were a warrior while you were here. But I don't see a need to be handicapping this team financially in the final two years of Ray's contract for a one year run at another title. That's foolish.

[Chris]

Per ESPN Insider:

Ray Allen, 34, just finished his 14th season in the NBA. Allen and Celtics management have said they don't want to part, but it could happen if Allen wants a long contract.

Allen made $19.27 million this season and will be offered between $5 million to $6 million from the Celtics and the new contract will probably be for only two years

Per Boston Herald:

One league official recently placed Allen’s value on the wildly competitive free agent market at approximately mid-level exception range, or about $5.6 million. This takes into account the number of premium players who will be contending for max contract money, the number of second-tier free agents and even some thought to be max-level honing in on Rajon Rondo [stats]-level money, or roughly $11 million per season.

Allen’s value, however, could be on the rise, especially for a contender like Cleveland that is expected to embark on a serious search for outside shooting help.

But there’s little doubting the 34-year-old Allen’s intent.

“I’ll deal with that when the time comes, but it’s obvious that I don’t want to be anywhere else,” Allen said following the Game 7 loss to the Lakers last Thursday in Los Angeles.

Indeed, everyone from Allen’s mother, Flo, to his wife, Shannon, have expressed a desire to remain in the Boston area.

Good to know Momma Allen wants Ray in Boston.

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.    

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to think that the Celtics will only offer a 2 year deal at MLE type money to Ray.

1.) They know he wants to stay here and after Danny spoke personally with both Ray and his wife at the trading deadline, I am sure he understands better than anyone how important it is to the entire Allen family to stay in Boston. This isn't stuff he would normally get just from speaking to an agent. I think Danny realizes just how low he can go on an offer and still have the Allen's accept it because of their desire not to want to uproot.

2.) It makes perfect sense to only want to offer a two year deal to Ray. It makes more sense to only offer a one year deal to Ray but that's not going to happen. We all are quite aware of when the Big Three era will end, it is with the expiration of KG's contract. Ray isn't getting an offer that will go past that contract. It just isn't happening.

3.) Until someone with more than just the MLE to offer Ray comes forward and offers Ray more than that, what incentive do the Celtics have to offer more. Do they really need to reward Ray for work he has already been paid handsomely for? No. So until their is someone to bid against that will offer Ray more than the MLE why would the Celtics bid against themselves and offer more money? That's just stupid. ASss BBD's contract negotiations proved last year, there's no reason to make a large offer until there's a need to make a large offer.

All in all, not only do I believe the stories but I think they make all the sense in the world. Ray is 35 years old. His days of 8 figure per year deals are over. Now if New York or Chicago wants to come in and offer him a three year deal at $33 million to $45 million, I say thanks, Ray, you were a warrior while you were here. But I don't see a need to be handicapping this team financially in the final two years of Ray's contract for a one year run at another title. That's foolish.

Oh, they may offer it.  And if they do, Ray will probably walk.  But my point of that post was that it was never reported that C's were going to make that offer.  It was misquoted on ESPN.com.  

So yeah, the C's may offer Ray 2 years at the MLE rate.  However, it has not been reported from a source yet. 

And it really bothers me that the guys on ESPN are either intentionally misleading their readers (particularly the insider subscribers who pay good money for the content), or cannot grasp simple, reading comprehension.

[nickagneta]

Per ESPN Insider:

Ray Allen, 34, just finished his 14th season in the NBA. Allen and Celtics management have said they don't want to part, but it could happen if Allen wants a long contract.

Allen made $19.27 million this season and will be offered between $5 million to $6 million from the Celtics and the new contract will probably be for only two years

Per Boston Herald:

One league official recently placed Allen’s value on the wildly competitive free agent market at approximately mid-level exception range, or about $5.6 million. This takes into account the number of premium players who will be contending for max contract money, the number of second-tier free agents and even some thought to be max-level honing in on Rajon Rondo [stats]-level money, or roughly $11 million per season.

Allen’s value, however, could be on the rise, especially for a contender like Cleveland that is expected to embark on a serious search for outside shooting help.

But there’s little doubting the 34-year-old Allen’s intent.

“I’ll deal with that when the time comes, but it’s obvious that I don’t want to be anywhere else,” Allen said following the Game 7 loss to the Lakers last Thursday in Los Angeles.

Indeed, everyone from Allen’s mother, Flo, to his wife, Shannon, have expressed a desire to remain in the Boston area.

Good to know Momma Allen wants Ray in Boston.

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.    

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to think that the Celtics will only offer a 2 year deal at MLE type money to Ray.

1.) They know he wants to stay here and after Danny spoke personally with both Ray and his wife at the trading deadline, I am sure he understands better than anyone how important it is to the entire Allen family to stay in Boston. This isn't stuff he would normally get just from speaking to an agent. I think Danny realizes just how low he can go on an offer and still have the Allen's accept it because of their desire not to want to uproot.

2.) It makes perfect sense to only want to offer a two year deal to Ray. It makes more sense to only offer a one year deal to Ray but that's not going to happen. We all are quite aware of when the Big Three era will end, it is with the expiration of KG's contract. Ray isn't getting an offer that will go past that contract. It just isn't happening.

3.) Until someone with more than just the MLE to offer Ray comes forward and offers Ray more than that, what incentive do the Celtics have to offer more. Do they really need to reward Ray for work he has already been paid handsomely for? No. So until their is someone to bid against that will offer Ray more than the MLE why would the Celtics bid against themselves and offer more money? That's just stupid. ASss BBD's contract negotiations proved last year, there's no reason to make a large offer until there's a need to make a large offer.

All in all, not only do I believe the stories but I think they make all the sense in the world. Ray is 35 years old. His days of 8 figure per year deals are over. Now if New York or Chicago wants to come in and offer him a three year deal at $33 million to $45 million, I say thanks, Ray, you were a warrior while you were here. But I don't see a need to be handicapping this team financially in the final two years of Ray's contract for a one year run at another title. That's foolish.

Oh, they may offer it.  And if they do, Ray will probably walk.  But my point of that post was that it was never reported that C's were going to make that offer.  It was misquoted on ESPN.com.  

So yeah, the C's may offer Ray 2 years at the MLE rate.  However, it has not been reported from a source yet. 

And it really bothers me that the guys on ESPN are either intentionally misleading their readers (particularly the insider subscribers who pay good money for the content), or cannot grasp simple, reading comprehension.

Oh, that's different. Of course, I saw Ian Thompson on Channel 7 last night with Dan Shaughnessy. These guys all know each other and they communicate with each other because they know who has who for a source. While the Boston Globe or Boston Herald guys can "speculate" but can't say for sure because the source doesn't want him to let the news out yet, if he talks to someone else about what he heard it doesn't mean the other reporter isn't going to run with it because he doesn't have to worry about po-ing the source off.

So what could look like lazy reporting could actually be good reporting. I'm not saying that is true in this particular case, but my feeling is this stuff happens a lot. The national guys don't have to be in the locker room every night or fly in the planes with these guys so they can take liberties in reporting that the locals can't.

This story, to me, makes too much sense not to be true, IMHO. Now you may balk at it and think Ray walks, but then again, you don't know what is going through the minds of the family or whether the perceive a $6 million a year salary as something to walk away from if they are living where they want to be living. I confess I don't either but piecing together the puzzle through everything that has been out there, especially the stuff around the trading deadline, makes me believe that this is a family that doesn't want to move and wants Ray here in Boston, at whatever the price.

[Kuberski33]

Don't think 2 years at 5-6 mill per will get it done.  I think some of it may depend on how the major Free Agent chips fall, but to the right team (and by that I mean the right team in terms of returning talent + money to spend) he's worth more than that.

I also think he may be worth more than that to the Celtics because of the downside to not bringing him back.  I think that actually adds to his value and may end up factoring into any decision management makes on him.

[Chris]

Per ESPN Insider:

Ray Allen, 34, just finished his 14th season in the NBA. Allen and Celtics management have said they don't want to part, but it could happen if Allen wants a long contract.

Allen made $19.27 million this season and will be offered between $5 million to $6 million from the Celtics and the new contract will probably be for only two years

Per Boston Herald:

One league official recently placed Allen’s value on the wildly competitive free agent market at approximately mid-level exception range, or about $5.6 million. This takes into account the number of premium players who will be contending for max contract money, the number of second-tier free agents and even some thought to be max-level honing in on Rajon Rondo [stats]-level money, or roughly $11 million per season.

Allen’s value, however, could be on the rise, especially for a contender like Cleveland that is expected to embark on a serious search for outside shooting help.

But there’s little doubting the 34-year-old Allen’s intent.

“I’ll deal with that when the time comes, but it’s obvious that I don’t want to be anywhere else,” Allen said following the Game 7 loss to the Lakers last Thursday in Los Angeles.

Indeed, everyone from Allen’s mother, Flo, to his wife, Shannon, have expressed a desire to remain in the Boston area.

Good to know Momma Allen wants Ray in Boston.

I hate this stuff.  The ESPN thing is just a tease citing the Herald article.  However, the Herald article just cited a "league source" putting Ray's value on the open market in the mid level exception range.  Somehow that got twisted into saying the C's were going offer Ray a 2 year deal at 5-6 million per year?

And by the way, apparently Mark Murphy thinks that Pierce can "restructure" (not allowed in the NBA) his deal, which has "two years remaining" (I think we are all aware that he only has one year left, if he does not take advantage of his early termination clause).

This is lazy reporting at its finest, which makes me take the tidbit from the "league official" with a grain of salt.    

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to think that the Celtics will only offer a 2 year deal at MLE type money to Ray.

1.) They know he wants to stay here and after Danny spoke personally with both Ray and his wife at the trading deadline, I am sure he understands better than anyone how important it is to the entire Allen family to stay in Boston. This isn't stuff he would normally get just from speaking to an agent. I think Danny realizes just how low he can go on an offer and still have the Allen's accept it because of their desire not to want to uproot.

2.) It makes perfect sense to only want to offer a two year deal to Ray. It makes more sense to only offer a one year deal to Ray but that's not going to happen. We all are quite aware of when the Big Three era will end, it is with the expiration of KG's contract. Ray isn't getting an offer that will go past that contract. It just isn't happening.

3.) Until someone with more than just the MLE to offer Ray comes forward and offers Ray more than that, what incentive do the Celtics have to offer more. Do they really need to reward Ray for work he has already been paid handsomely for? No. So until their is someone to bid against that will offer Ray more than the MLE why would the Celtics bid against themselves and offer more money? That's just stupid. ASss BBD's contract negotiations proved last year, there's no reason to make a large offer until there's a need to make a large offer.

All in all, not only do I believe the stories but I think they make all the sense in the world. Ray is 35 years old. His days of 8 figure per year deals are over. Now if New York or Chicago wants to come in and offer him a three year deal at $33 million to $45 million, I say thanks, Ray, you were a warrior while you were here. But I don't see a need to be handicapping this team financially in the final two years of Ray's contract for a one year run at another title. That's foolish.

Oh, they may offer it.  And if they do, Ray will probably walk.  But my point of that post was that it was never reported that C's were going to make that offer.  It was misquoted on ESPN.com.  

So yeah, the C's may offer Ray 2 years at the MLE rate.  However, it has not been reported from a source yet.  

And it really bothers me that the guys on ESPN are either intentionally misleading their readers (particularly the insider subscribers who pay good money for the content), or cannot grasp simple, reading comprehension.

Oh, that's different. Of course, I saw Ian Thompson on Channel 7 last night with Dan Shaughnessy. These guys all know each other and they communicate with each other because they know who has who for a source. While the Boston Globe or Boston Herald guys can "speculate" but can't say for sure because the source doesn't want him to let the news out yet, if he talks to someone else about what he heard it doesn't mean the other reporter isn't going to run with it because he doesn't have to worry about po-ing the source off.

So what could look like lazy reporting could actually be good reporting. I'm not saying that is true in this particular case, but my feeling is this stuff happens a lot. The national guys don't have to be in the locker room every night or fly in the planes with these guys so they can take liberties in reporting that the locals can't.

I think there is still some miscommunication here.  The lazy reporting was two things.  

First, Mark Murphy incorrectly said that Pierce has 2 years left on his current deal.  That is wrong.  And it is lazy for him to report it (and his editor not to catch it).

Second, the ESPN editor on the rumors page cited that particular Herald Article, saying that the Celtics were going to offer Ray 2 years at 5-6 million.  However, that is not what the article said.  The article said that a league source put Ray's value on the open market at 5-6 million per year.  That is a completely different thing.  

If they really do have inside info, like you are suggesting, they would have reported it differently, because the way it is reported here, is completely wrong and mis-stated.

[slamtheking]

I don't think Ray is the first domino, at least I don't think he should be if the C's are to make smart decisions this offseason.

I think there's 2 "first" dominoes:
1A. How long is Perk's projected recovery time?
1B. Is Sheed retiring or not?

If Perk's out for the beginning of the season and Sheed is retiring, I think that drives Danny's offseason moves.  Without a starting center or his backup, Danny has to fill that gaping hole with his few options: MLE, draft and vet min contracts.  Not having one of those players going into the season means Danny will have no choice but to use the MLE (most likely option) or draft pick (backup plan) to get a center that he can put on the court until Perk is ready or to save Sheed's minutes.  If neither Perk or Sheed are around for opening day, Danny will most likely have to use both the MLE and Draft pick to fill that hole. 

that will have more of an impact than Ray's contract because Danny can match whatever offer Ray receives for better or worse. 

The usage of the MLE goes from considering Miller, Outlaw or Morrow to looking at Haywood instead and that's with Sheed returning.  If Sheed retires, I think there's no option other than to get a center with the MLE.  If the C's are lucky, maybe they can get Battie in for the vet min to eat up minutes as his backup and use the draft pick on best player available.

of course all FA transactions have to happen after the draft which really screws up these plans but that's why Danny has to know what's up with Perk and Sheed before the draft.

[looseball]

I'm in favor of Ray being the first domino, since he's the oldest;  KG next, when his contract expires;  and then Paul when he retires (hopefully as a Celt).

This team was built around the big three, and in three years they gave us a championship, an "if only", and a "near miss".
It's been a great run, but as of now Rondo is our most important asset, and it's time to make the transition to Rondo-ball, because that's where our future lies.  Rondo is probably the most dangerous guy in the league in the open court, and we need to surround him with guys who can rebound and run the floor.

Ray has gone from being a most consistent scorer to being a streaky shooter.  Streaky shooters are more suited to coming off the bench (where if you're hot you play a lot, if you're not, then not so much).  We're not in good position to have Ray come off the bench because we have no one ready to step in and start in his place.  Billy Walker would fit the bill nicely if he were still around, since he's a runner, slasher, finisher type (ideal for Rondo-ball).  Danny needs to look for someone with those skills, rather than a pure shooter like Ray.

Tony, Big Baby, Nate, and even KG all run the floor well.  Paul can still do it all, only in shorter shifts.

Our biggest weakness is rebounding, and it cost us the title.  KG's numbers have gone from 9 to 8 to 7 rpg's in his three years here.  Perk's numbers have declined, also. 
So our biggest need at present is a monster on the boards, who throws a good outlet pass, to get Rondo started in the open court.  We need to point Ray's money in that direction.

That's my take on the situation.

   

[EmilioBonilla]

If ray's gone, go for rudy gay as a replacement. I know there are many different factors in going after him, but I think it could be done.

[Yakmanev]

If ray's gone, go for rudy gay as a replacement. I know there are many different factors in going after him, but I think it could be done.

I'd really like that. I see allot of him here in the Memphis market. Very good for the present and the future.

[Lucky17]

If ray's gone, go for rudy gay as a replacement. I know there are many different factors in going after him, but I think it could be done.

I just don't see how there's any way the Celtics can acquire him.

A team like Minnesota can offer him more money, thanks to their cap space.

The best package we could offer via sign and trade is expiring contracts (Sheed and Davis), plus future pick(s). That's not going to cut it, either.

[Yakmanev]

If ray's gone, go for rudy gay as a replacement. I know there are many different factors in going after him, but I think it could be done.

I just don't see how there's any way the Celtics can acquire him.

A team like Minnesota can offer him more money, thanks to their cap space.

The best package we could offer via sign and trade is expiring contracts (Sheed and Davis), plus future pick(s). That's not going to cut it, either.

Could Ray Allen be included in that sign and trade as well? I know he would have to agree to go to Memphis and I don't know why he would and I don't know that Memphis really needs him but it's fun to think about anyway.

[Lucky17]

If ray's gone, go for rudy gay as a replacement. I know there are many different factors in going after him, but I think it could be done.

I just don't see how there's any way the Celtics can acquire him.

A team like Minnesota can offer him more money, thanks to their cap space.

The best package we could offer via sign and trade is expiring contracts (Sheed and Davis), plus future pick(s). That's not going to cut it, either.

Could Ray Allen be included in that sign and trade as well? I know he would have to agree to go to Memphis and I don't know why he would and I don't know that Memphis really needs him but it's fun to think about anyway.

Yeah, he could. Sign him to a three-year deal, with the first (and maybe second) year guaranteed.

But how does that help Memphis, and why would Allen agree to be traded to a non-contender?