Where does Howard rank among centers of the past 30 years?

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't see how you could put Shaq above Kareem...Kareem has a shot outside the paint whereas Shaq is just an efficient dunker.Howard wouldn't crack my top10 best centers.

If you look at Kareem post-1980, Shaq was simply a more dominant player.  Kareem had a more skilled game, but Shaq couldn't really be stopped, whereas teams contained Kareem more.

[misha]

I don't see how you could put Shaq above Kareem...Kareem has a shot outside the paint whereas Shaq is just an efficient dunker.Howard wouldn't crack my top10 best centers.

If you look at Kareem post-1980, Shaq was simply a more dominant player.  Kareem had a more skilled game, but Shaq couldn't really be stopped, whereas teams contained Kareem more.

Kareem was 33 in 1980. What about when he was in his prime in the 70's ?

[Spilling Green Dye]

I am in full agreement with your initial position of Dwight Howard.

Quite frankly, I don't see Dwight moving up in the ranking over the course of his career.  He will finish with more impressive numbers than some of those guys ahead of him, but at no point do I think he will even approach the status of a "complete center" as much as those guys have.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, I've seen three youtube videos of Shaq VS Hakeem. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__fHT0BgoCQ

I'd call Shaq the strongest Center outside of Wilt to play the game, but Hakeem has the most polished game.

Shaq did in fact peak for 2-3 years, where he had a nice amount of lowpost moves, surprising quickness and agility around the basket.

In conclusion, I have to call this either way.

Maybe someone sees something different from the Youtube Videos?

[Bahku]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

[Roy Hobbs]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

Not in the top 20?  I don't think he's an all-time great, but I can't think of 19 centers better than him.

[GreenFaith1819]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

And that is what is so baffling about Dwight - he has one of the best Centers to ever play the game as an Assistant Coach (Patrick)..

He's still young, though..I'd find it hard to believe if Dwight doesn't eventually develop an array of low post moves.

As he gets older, he must realize that he just won't have that dominating quickness or strength anymore, and Perk is already displaying that much already.

As I take an objective view of Andrew Bynum, he is certainly getting better offensively..his knock is that he can't stay healthy.

Against quality Bigs, though, it seems like Bynum disappears.

[GreenFaith1819]

Here's one where Shaq just powers through Olajuwon...Just Nasty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCkU2fKK4_4&feature=related

[hwangjini_1]

howard is excellent, but i think if he suffers from playing a role that does not let him develop greater basketball skills. he relies far too much upon athleticism and not enough on skills partly because orlando's offensive/defensive skills encourage it.

orlando is howard and 4 shooters. that is a team, of sorts. but imagine howard surrounded by bird, mchale, dj, and ainge.

imagine howard with the celtics team now. he would not have to play as he now does...team the ball into him, he either passes to a shooter or muscles his way to the basket.

imagine howard being fed the basketball in a position to beat the defender consistently. imagine him being able to count on KG to help him rebound.

howard is an outstanding talent, but i dont think his basketball skills are developed as they should be, or does orlando play the sort of game that allows him to develop better.

by the way, i think that if if if if if if IF oden stays healthy, he will be a better center than howard be virtue of his skills and better all around game.

[peiff]

I'll preface this post by saying that almost all of the centers in the all-time greats discussion retired before I was born, so I am going to comment on the people that I've actually seen play, not those that I've only seen a few highlight reels of.

You can't compare people across generations based on stats, or even their skills (yes! I just said that!) Why do the stats, skills, et al. not translate across the decades? If Dwight doesn't play the style that Hakeem did and averages 17 ppg and 13 rpg to Hakeem's 22 and 11, how can you compare the two based on skills? Yes, Hakeem had a very complete game, but if Dwight can put up similar numbers without all the fancy footwork and shooting, how can you hold that against him? Perhaps Dwight never developed those skills because he could still excel with the approach he uses? And for stats, well the game has simply changed so much that you can't compare the stats and say that this number means this and that number means that. If Hakeem played when Wilt did could he have put up point totals nearing 100 on a regular basis? Maybe. That's it - maybe. We really don't know how he would have handled the style of basketball played in the 60's, so we can't compare him to players of that era. The way I see it, the best centers need to be head and shoulders above the competition they played against. So, let's look at Dwight against his competition. There is a general consensus that he is the best center in the league at the moment, but is he that much ahead of the pack? Well, he was fourth among centers in ppg, and first in rebounds in blocks this season. He recorded over 100 more rebounds than the next best center, and over 50 more blocks. Pretty dominant, stat-wise at least. But let's talk about his actual play. The Celtics have shown that even when he is the primary scoring option for his team, with the Celtics holding tight on the 3-point line and Perk left to defend Howard one-on-one, he cannot control and dominate a game like some of the others mentioned in the argument. In the Eastern Conference, against a slew of other good, young centers (Perkins, Bogut, Lopez, Lee) has Dwight been so much better than anyone else has been? I  don't think so. So, in my opinion, he is not an all-timer.

[More Banners]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

Not in the top 20?  I don't think he's an all-time great, but I can't think of 19 centers better than him.

Let me try...

Chief
Bill Walton
Kareem
Hakeem
Ewing
Shaq
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Zo Mourning
Mutumbo

That's a pretty quick 10, some debatabe.  Ten more would be pretty tough...

[GreenFaith1819]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

Not in the top 20?  I don't think he's an all-time great, but I can't think of 19 centers better than him.

Let me try...

Chief
Bill Walton
Kareem
Hakeem
Ewing
Shaq
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Zo Mourning
Mutumbo

That's a pretty quick 10, some debatabe.  Ten more would be pretty tough...

TP for your dedication to the first two picks..Celtics Love at its best.

[Roy Hobbs]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

Not in the top 20?  I don't think he's an all-time great, but I can't think of 19 centers better than him.

Let me try...

Chief
Bill Walton
Kareem
Hakeem
Ewing
Shaq
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Zo Mourning
Mutumbo

That's a pretty quick 10, some debatabe.  Ten more would be pretty tough...

Also, at no point in the last 30 years was Bill Walton as good as Dwight Howard.  Prior to 1980, yes, but injuries really took their toll.

[More Banners]

Past 30 years? He would NOT be on my Top 20 List, that's for sure.

Not in the top 20?  I don't think he's an all-time great, but I can't think of 19 centers better than him.

Let me try...

Chief
Bill Walton
Kareem
Hakeem
Ewing
Shaq
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Zo Mourning
Mutumbo

That's a pretty quick 10, some debatabe.  Ten more would be pretty tough...

Also, at no point in the last 30 years was Bill Walton as good as Dwight Howard.  Prior to 1980, yes, but injuries really took their toll.

Felt a bit cheated for not being able to include Cowens.

Wild Bill showed some flashes, though...I loved the running hook.  DH seems to be trying to learn it?  That was enough for me.  Truly, I didn't think that hard.  30 years is a bit more than my memory can manage...

[Celtics17]

Walton may not hae been as good of a player in the last 30 years as Howard is now but he sure looked a lot better playing with the 86 Celtics then Howard does playing against the current C's team. And, if I am not mistaken, he set a playoff record for defensive rebounds in a half in the Finals, or something like that. Walton in his prime was far and away a better center then Howard is and he has more then one ring to prove it.