Rumor or excuse: Lebron's elbow is worse than first reported (merged)

[FatjohnReturns]

Losers always have excuses. You cannot launch half court shots with a torn elbow ligament. Gimmie a break. Is this all the basketball media cares about. Really?

[MaxwellSmart86]

Honestly, he's not the same....I could believe one of 3 things:

1:He has a torn elbow ligament.

2:C's defense is frustrating the BLANK out of him.

3:He's already mentally packed his bags, cause he knows he's leaving.

I guess we'll all see tomorrow night---I kinda hope it's an injury---for our sake and his.

[get_banners]

the elbow story has nothing to do with lebron. he hasn't used it as an excuse. he keeps saying it is fine. the cavs keep saying it is fine. the problem is, the media is trying to do everything possible to keep their king on his throne. fact is, our defense is really doing a number on him. and as many have mentioned, if his elbow is that bad, he shouldn't be hitting many free throws, dunks, or the warm-up half court shots. this story isn't about lebron or the cavs, it is about the press making excuses for him.

[dlpin]

the elbow story has nothing to do with lebron. he hasn't used it as an excuse. he keeps saying it is fine. the cavs keep saying it is fine. the problem is, the media is trying to do everything possible to keep their king on his throne. fact is, our defense is really doing a number on him. and as many have mentioned, if his elbow is that bad, he shouldn't be hitting many free throws, dunks, or the warm-up half court shots. this story isn't about lebron or the cavs, it is about the press making excuses for him.

Was it the media shooting free throws left handed too? Was it the media saying that he will deal with it this offseason?

[neyvit]

the elbow story has nothing to do with lebron. he hasn't used it as an excuse. he keeps saying it is fine. the cavs keep saying it is fine. the problem is, the media is trying to do everything possible to keep their king on his throne. fact is, our defense is really doing a number on him. and as many have mentioned, if his elbow is that bad, he shouldn't be hitting many free throws, dunks, or the warm-up half court shots. this story isn't about lebron or the cavs, it is about the press making excuses for him.

Was it the media shooting free throws left handed too? Was it the media saying that he will deal with it this offseason?

So now you are upset with him because he chose to stop directly answering questions about it, and saying he isn't going to worry about it til the summer?  Seriously?

The truth is that nothing will make you guys happy.  You will always find a reason to complain.  And I can understand that - that's a basic premise for every fan-base to hate the opposing team's best player, and try to find fault in everything he does (just review the topics/posts last week when the series started - at least ten different threads nitpicking about Lebron specifically).  I can also understand how the media lovefest with Lebron can be nauseating, and is likely fueling much of this hatred.  

Here's the bottom line with LBJ.  Yes, he is cocky, arrogant, egomaniac, too-image-conscience, fake, etc.  But the truth is, 90% of NBA players are the same way. The reason everyone hates on LBJ is because he is constantly in the limelight.  Every word he says, every action he takes, is magnified to the Nth degree.  

And honestly, I don't really fault the guy for being that way.  Considering how he has been worshiped and babied since he was 14 - with the expectations and pressure of the world on his shoulders, would others behave differently with the same experience?  I would argue that Lebron is a best-case scenario considering the circumstances he was in.  He could easily have gone the route of complete , lazy, disrespectful to teammates/coach route, drugs, trouble with the law, etc route.  But he didn't.  He has been 100% clean.  He does and says the right thing 99% of the time - an impressive feat considering how every move he makes is documented for the whole world to see.  How often have you heard any player/coach (either same team or opposing) have a negative thing to say about Lebron?  The only one I can think of is Deshawn Stevenson.  That should speak volumes.  

(Regarding the PER, I was relying on an Hollinger article written right before the playoffs, so the numbers have changed.  Sorry bout that, but I think the point I was trying to make that he has been a dominant playoffs player is still valid.)

[dlpin]

So now you are upset with him because he chose to stop directly answering questions about it, and saying he isn't going to worry about it til the summer?  Seriously?

The truth is that nothing will make you guys happy.  You will always find a reason to complain.  And I can understand that - that's a basic premise for every fan-base to hate the opposing team's best player, and try to find fault in everything he does (just review the topics/posts last week when the series started - at least ten different threads nitpicking about Lebron specifically).  I can also understand how the media lovefest with Lebron can be nauseating, and is likely fueling much of this hatred.  

Here's the bottom line with LBJ.  Yes, he is cocky, arrogant, egomaniac, too-image-conscience, fake, etc.  But the truth is, 90% of NBA players are the same way. The reason everyone hates on LBJ is because he is constantly in the limelight.  Every word he says, every action he takes, is magnified to the Nth degree.  

And honestly, I don't really fault the guy for being that way.  Considering how he has been worshiped and babied since he was 14 - with the expectations and pressure of the world on his shoulders, would others behave differently with the same experience?  I would argue that Lebron is a best-case scenario considering the circumstances he was in.  He could easily have gone the route of complete , lazy, disrespectful to teammates/coach route, drugs, trouble with the law, etc route.  But he didn't.  He has been 100% clean.  He does and says the right thing 99% of the time - an impressive feat considering how every move he makes is documented for the whole world to see.  How often have you heard any player/coach (either same team or opposing) have a negative thing to say about Lebron?  The only one I can think of is Deshawn Stevenson.  That should speak volumes.  

(Regarding the PER, I was relying on an Hollinger article written right before the playoffs, so the numbers have changed.  Sorry bout that, but I think the point I was trying to make that he has been a dominant playoffs player is still valid.)

What is your point, exactly?

That there are other NBA players who are cocky, arrogant, full of themselves?

Sure. But there is a matter of degree. While other players might be full of themselves, if we ever ranked NBA players based on that, Lebron would be very close to the top of the list.

And the reason people dislike him is not because he is constantly in the limelight: it is because he desperately tries to constantly be in the limelight.

There is a reason Duncan, Oneal, Nash, Olajuwon and even Malone didn't rub people the wrong way like Lebron does.

This is the guy that before game 7 in 08 said that "a Lebron James team is never desperate," and then after losing said "I need more help." This is the guy that goes out of his way to increase the drama around his free agency (yankees cap, anyone). This is the guy who responds to a pathetic game by saying he's only had 3 bad games his career. And who now says he is confident there will be a game 7 because the cavs have him. And regarding the elbow, when he says its an issue, when he shoots free throws left handed just for effect, of course people will notice.

So Lebron has no one to blame but himself when it comes to reactions to this story.

And no, he doesn't keep saying it is fine. He actually said "The elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason."

Again, this is a guy who claimed he was so bothered by his elbow that he had to shoot a free throw in a crucial situation left handed. And since then, we've heard of 3 MRIs that showed nothing, we saw him take over game 3, we saw him shooting half court shots before game 4, we saw him doing 360 dunks before game 5, and then after game 5 he was saying the elbow was an issue. I'm sorry if given all that people suspect there might be quite a bit of embellishment going on.

[neyvit]

What is your point, exactly?

That there are other NBA players who are cocky, arrogant, full of themselves?

Sure. But there is a matter of degree. While other players might be full of themselves, if we ever ranked NBA players based on that, Lebron would be very close to the top of the list.

And the reason people dislike him is not because he is constantly in the limelight: it is because he desperately tries to constantly be in the limelight.

There is a reason Duncan, Oneal, Nash, Olajuwon and even Malone didn't rub people the wrong way like Lebron does.

This is the guy that before game 7 in 08 said that "a Lebron James team is never desperate," and then after losing said "I need more help." This is the guy that goes out of his way to increase the drama around his free agency (yankees cap, anyone). This is the guy who responds to a pathetic game by saying he's only had 3 bad games his career. And who now says he is confident there will be a game 7 because the cavs have him. And regarding the elbow, when he says its an issue, when he shoots free throws left handed just for effect, of course people will notice.

So Lebron has no one to blame but himself when it comes to reactions to this story.

And no, he doesn't keep saying it is fine. He actually said "The elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason."

Again, this is a guy who claimed he was so bothered by his elbow that he had to shoot a free throw in a crucial situation left handed. And since then, we've heard of 3 MRIs that showed nothing, we saw him take over game 3, we saw him shooting half court shots before game 4, we saw him doing 360 dunks before game 5, and then after game 5 he was saying the elbow was an issue. I'm sorry if given all that people suspect there might be quite a bit of embellishment going on.

A lot of what you said is a matter of opinion, so I'm not going to address each point - I'm not here to convince anyone they are wrong, just showing the other side of things. 

But the examples you used?  Malone, O'Neal, Olajuwon?  Of course they rubbed people the wrong way.  Are you kidding me?  If that's the best examples you can think of, then I think you are just proving my point.  (Nash and Duncan are probably in the 10% - but there are plenty of Duncan-haters out there too).

Some other facts you got wrong:  He did not have 3 MRIs.  Only had one MRI.  He was shooting the half court shots with his left hand (although this is absurdly irrelevant, considering what he actually has said about his elbow), you're interpretation of him saying "The elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason" is way off.

I can't believe I have to do this, but considering how many people still misconstrue "elbowgate," I'll go through a timeline for you:

Mid-April:  His elbow starts acting up.  Nothing structural or serious, but he can feel a bit of soreness.  Never talks about it in media (nor is asked about it). Starts wearing elbow-pad on and off.

1st Round:  Elbow begins to bother him more, but he never mentions it to the media.  You can notice it if you pay attention (in an early game, he went to the lockers in the 2nd quarter for treatment on it, although this was barely discussed).  Doesn't seem to effect his game at all.

1st Round, Game 5: In the second half, you can see him flexing his elbow pretty often.  During last free throws, tries to call timeout because his elbow went numb.  In hindsight, it was silly of him to take the left-handed free throw.  After the game, he vehemently denies any serious problems with the elbow - just stating that it went numb a couple times and that he's not sure if theres anything wrong with it.

Leading up to 2nd round:  Media goes crazy.  Lebron continues to say that it won't effect his performance.  Busts out his "no-excuse" comment after every question asked about the elbow.  NEVER breaches the subject, and is always vague when answering about it.  Has his first, and only, MRI - that confirms no structural damage.

2nd round:  Never even hints at the fact the elbow affected his game in the post-game conferences (including Game 5 press conference where he never even says a word about it).  And, honestly, it doesn't affect his game.  He's having a bad series for other reasons. 

Yesterday:  Asked whether the elbow will be an issue going into Game 5, Lebron diverts the question by saying "the elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason."  If you watch the video, it is clear that his response is meant as a 'I'm not worrying about the elbow. It's not something relevant to this series.'  This is the interpretation any reasonable unbiased observer would have.  Which comes to what the point of my earlier rant was; it is natural for fans of opposing teams to always try to find the worst in a situation.  I was simply trying to offer the other side of the story (a view that isn't green-tinted) - unless this is a site that doesn't welcome differing opinions?

(And the Yankees hat is just silly.  Every single freaking NBA player wears Yankees hat.  It's a fashion statement if you haven't noticed.  Who cares if he likes the Yankees baseball team?  Yea, he is very non-committal about free agency, which rightfully angers many Cavs fans.  This is common though for pending free agents, but yet again is magnified because of who he is.  If you want to see what real teasing of a fanbase looks like, check out Dwyane Wade ["I'm looking forward to being courted by NBA teams this summer"] Chris Bosh [his whole twitter escapade], Carlos Boozer, etc.)

[FallGuy]

What is your point, exactly?

That there are other NBA players who are cocky, arrogant, full of themselves?

Sure. But there is a matter of degree. While other players might be full of themselves, if we ever ranked NBA players based on that, Lebron would be very close to the top of the list.

And the reason people dislike him is not because he is constantly in the limelight: it is because he desperately tries to constantly be in the limelight.

There is a reason Duncan, Oneal, Nash, Olajuwon and even Malone didn't rub people the wrong way like Lebron does.

This is the guy that before game 7 in 08 said that "a Lebron James team is never desperate," and then after losing said "I need more help." This is the guy that goes out of his way to increase the drama around his free agency (yankees cap, anyone). This is the guy who responds to a pathetic game by saying he's only had 3 bad games his career. And who now says he is confident there will be a game 7 because the cavs have him. And regarding the elbow, when he says its an issue, when he shoots free throws left handed just for effect, of course people will notice.

So Lebron has no one to blame but himself when it comes to reactions to this story.

And no, he doesn't keep saying it is fine. He actually said "The elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason."

Again, this is a guy who claimed he was so bothered by his elbow that he had to shoot a free throw in a crucial situation left handed. And since then, we've heard of 3 MRIs that showed nothing, we saw him take over game 3, we saw him shooting half court shots before game 4, we saw him doing 360 dunks before game 5, and then after game 5 he was saying the elbow was an issue. I'm sorry if given all that people suspect there might be quite a bit of embellishment going on.

A lot of what you said is a matter of opinion, so I'm not going to address each point - I'm not here to convince anyone they are wrong, just showing the other side of things. 

But the examples you used?  Malone, O'Neal, Olajuwon?  Of course they rubbed people the wrong way.  Are you kidding me?  If that's the best examples you can think of, then I think you are just proving my point.  (Nash and Duncan are probably in the 10% - but there are plenty of Duncan-haters out there too).

Some other facts you got wrong:  He did not have 3 MRIs.  Only had one MRI.  He was shooting the half court shots with his left hand (although this is absurdly irrelevant, considering what he actually has said about his elbow), you're interpretation of him saying "The elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason" is way off.

I can't believe I have to do this, but considering how many people still misconstrue "elbowgate," I'll go through a timeline for you:

Mid-April:  His elbow starts acting up.  Nothing structural or serious, but he can feel a bit of soreness.  Never talks about it in media (nor is asked about it). Starts wearing elbow-pad on and off.

1st Round:  Elbow begins to bother him more, but he never mentions it to the media.  You can notice it if you pay attention (in an early game, he went to the lockers in the 2nd quarter for treatment on it, although this was barely discussed).  Doesn't seem to effect his game at all.

1st Round, Game 5: In the second half, you can see him flexing his elbow pretty often.  During last free throws, tries to call timeout because his elbow went numb.  In hindsight, it was silly of him to take the left-handed free throw.  After the game, he vehemently denies any serious problems with the elbow - just stating that it went numb a couple times and that he's not sure if theres anything wrong with it.

Leading up to 2nd round:  Media goes crazy.  Lebron continues to say that it won't effect his performance.  Busts out his "no-excuse" comment after every question asked about the elbow.  NEVER breaches the subject, and is always vague when answering about it.  Has his first, and only, MRI - that confirms no structural damage.

2nd round:  Never even hints at the fact the elbow affected his game in the post-game conferences (including Game 5 press conference where he never even says a word about it).  And, honestly, it doesn't affect his game.  He's having a bad series for other reasons. 

Yesterday:  Asked whether the elbow will be an issue going into Game 5, Lebron diverts the question by saying "the elbow is an issue I'll deal with in the offseason."  If you watch the video, it is clear that his response is meant as a 'I'm not worrying about the elbow. It's not something relevant to this series.'  This is the interpretation any reasonable unbiased observer would have.  Which comes to what the point of my earlier rant was; it is natural for fans of opposing teams to always try to find the worst in a situation.  I was simply trying to offer the other side of the story (a view that isn't green-tinted) - unless this is a site that doesn't welcome differing opinions?

(And the Yankees hat is just silly.  Every single freaking NBA player wears Yankees hat.  It's a fashion statement if you haven't noticed.  Who cares if he likes the Yankees baseball team?  Yea, he is very non-committal about free agency, which rightfully angers many Cavs fans.  This is common though for pending free agents, but yet again is magnified because of who he is.  If you want to see what real teasing of a fanbase looks like, check out Dwyane Wade ["I'm looking forward to being courted by NBA teams this summer"] Chris Bosh [his whole twitter escapade], Carlos Boozer, etc.)

TP. Well argued. There are PLENTY of legit reasons to criticize LBJ (after all he's played three whole bad games the last seven years  ), but using the elbow as an excuse isn't one. He's only brought it up when pressed on it. People often focus their anger at the media's kowtowing to LBJ or the NBA's marketing machine at the player himself.

For the record, Celtics fans are very provincial, moreso than most other teams in the league, I'd argue. There's little chance LBJ or any player we're up against is gonna get a fair shake.

Still, you'll find more than a few people here willing to look at things as objectively as possible.

Cheers --