Man I hate the Cavs

[Greenbean]

If the Cavs shooters go cold around Lebron, the ball gets very sticky. Their offensive game plan late in games is often terrible. As good as Mike Brown is at defensive gameplanning, his teams have been equally as predictible and stagnant offensively. Great defensive teams can always stop an offense with no ball movement even if God himself was on the team.  Keep in mind I am talking about playoff basketball when halfcourt offensive execution becomes more important. This year you might be lucky because there are no great defensive teams lurking out there. Orlando and Bos have the ability to be great defensively but they are not there at this moment in the playoffs. Celveland's defense is always stellar but I have seent the Cavs get too comfortable and lax at times even in the playoffs.

They are a great team don't get me wrong but they definitely have flaws and I would not be shocked to see them fail to reach the finals even though I would not bet against it.

I hate the LeIso usually, and it has always been a product of the Cavs shooters going cold, or Mike Brown not knowing what else to do.  Nights when Lebron is on it works great (like last night) but it can also kill a team.  What was weird about last night is that Jamison was not on the floor.  He is their secoond best scoring option on the floor in the 4th and he was on the bench.  Jamison actually knows how to work off the ball, and will not just stand around and watch.  Could have been a recipe for disaster.

Mike Brown continues to rob you guys of Lebron's true offensive potential. Has he ever come out and crticized Lebron or challenged his game at all? They go out and get a terrific offensive player like Jamison and he still has no idea what to do besides isolate Lebron 4o feet from the basket.

It's good for us but at the same time as a basketball fan I want to see this guy in a real offensive system as a basketball fan. As good as Lebron is with the ball, who would stop him off the ball? He should be able to get anywhere on the court and get any position he wants. Maybe if he loses again this year he will realize himself that something needs to change.

Even the greatest of players need some external motivation to get better. I cant think of one person who has publically challenged his game.

Just look at MJ's retirement speech. He is still salty about the people who doubted him throughout his career.

Who would LeBron mention? Skip Bayless?

This is why I think so many Celtics fans are anti-Lebron. You just never hear anything negative about the guy and it kind of sickening. That might be hating but you have to admit it gets a little overblown especially in the playoffs.

[angryguy77]

After watching this game tonight, I think there might be a little blood in the water. The cavs do not look so scary and seem vulnerable to me. I'll admit some of this comes from my absolute hate of the cavs and leroid, but they are having trouble with a team that barely made it into the playoffs. I'm willing to bet that Orlando or Boston will knock them out and rob Darth Stern of his wet deam once more.

Another thing I learned tonight is that it's ok if you elbow a guy in the head to get position. But your name has to be Shaq and you have to play for the cavs. This league disgusts me.

Wow.....there are a lot of excuses in this thread.  The Bulls were 6 games over 500 before Noah and Rose went down and then went 8-2 once both of them came back.  

Maybe you should focus on Boston's vulnerability and worry about the Miami match up before you start claiming that Boston will beat the Cavs in the second round huh?

Excuses? Really? Wow a whole six games over mediocrity, that screams NBA elite and shows us that they should be giving the cavs a run If I were a Cleveland fan I would be a little worried. Seems like history might just repeat itself once again. Your a #1 seed thats clawing for a win againts the bulls who had lost ten in a row not too long ago.

Boston may or may not beat cleveland, but I am certain Cleveland isn't going to go to the finals, which is a good thing because it will save them the humiliation.

So let me get this straight...the Cavs won when the Bulls played an excellent game and I should be worried?  The Bulls put their best foot forward tonight and the Cavs beat them.  Worried?  Makes sense.

You're certain they wont make the finals huh?  I guess time will tell.  I swear, there are so many intelligent fans on this site and it's ruined by people with blind hatred

I'm sorry  to tell you, I'm not basing my entire arguement on "blind hate". I do dislike them, but I can make a rational assumption that's not clouded as you so politley stated .
 I saw your team have two close games against a Bulls team that shouldn't be allowed in the same gym as the Lebrons. They had a large lead in the first game and gave it away. They started to build a lead again and the Bulls came back in the second. Sound familiar? Two close games against a team they should be destroying, at home no less.
 
I know my sample size is a bit small, but I don't think it's crazy for someone say that they are not as good as everyone thinks.

And if you want to take a shot at my intelligence, then go right ahead. Just make sure to pay us a visit after the playoffs....

[openairmovie]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Okay, you are right. I dislike the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (though he is the best basketball player on the planet), because they pose a very real threat to the greatest franchise in basketball, and all of that threat comes from one player and three refs alone.

Perfect!

TP for you

Its the truth...never have I seen a guy that the NBA has flat out begged to win for the league. The NBA is quite obviously a soap opera with the Ref scandle and the obvious power that ESPN has over the league officials regarding suspensions and such. If ESPN harped on Q being the instigator of the fight, promise you it would have happened. Its the same thing w/ Lequeen every year they hype the hell out of him throughout the regular season and he and his teamates get the star treatment from the refs. I saw a few calls go for Mo Williams yesterday that were obvious "Star calls"  and I had to ask myself, "Wait..when did Mo Williams become a STAR???" He is an average player,  I could pick out 10 PG that are better than him, do you see Rondo get that treatment? no,  Jason Kidd? Not anymore    but both are still better than Mo IMO.  But because he is around Lequeen things go a little different.  Doneghy was right  the league is corrupt, and if the Lakers make the finals w/ Lequeen and the Cavs  its pretty obvious that is the case and we have been watching glorified WWE matches  for all this time.  Rules are rules, they should be followed regardless of who you are and how much your worth, somewhere along the line these stars felt there was a different rulebook composed just for them, and felt that if they whined to the officials enough the calls would go their way, and they did and its WRONG. If it means that my guy fouls out of a game because the rules were followed and I see an honest game? Then so be it, but there is NO reason why a guy that drives as much as Lebron does  doesnt have nearly half as many fouls as other guys with similar game.  Look at his game counts, half the time you dont see him over 3 fouls a game. Thats a joke!!!

[heyvik]

I like LeBron.  He's the best player in the NBA.  I'm rooting for the Cavs once the Celtics get eliminated.  They are the only chance we have of Kobe losing.  The Cavs winning solves a couple things... #1 - LeBron is rightfully considered the greatest player in the NBA and will be well on his legacy of dominance... and #2 - Shaq gets another ring to rub in Kobe's face.

Pretty much anything that craps on Kobe and the Lakers... i'm all for.

Go Cavs

Agreed. I believe as a true Celtics fan, you should want to root against your arch rival in the worse way! I'll root for the C's until they get eliminated, THEN, I will cheer for any team that will humiliate LA. Because whether we want to believe it or not, as a true Celtics fan, Kobe's/LA's hatred runs far deeper than Lebron's/Cavs.

[MMacOH]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Can't say I care as much as everyone else. Lebron's a great player to me, but he's definitely a whiner to me. That can't be argued. I mean, don't you remember that tantrum he threw in the last regular season game against the Celtics? That was just ridiculous. He needs to check himself, sometime.

Well, this is just me talking, but if a guy grabs his crotch and curses me out during a game I am pretty much going to take offense to it and say something. 

Now I don't think he needed to go into their huddle and start yapping.  He could have just walked away.  But we all know how you Boston fans feel about Lebron just walking away.   

I missed the walking away reference, but I have to say, I didn't blame Lebron for going back at Tony Allen, who really had no place talking trash to a guy like Lebron.  On the other hand, Lebron had just made one of the most boneheaded plays I have seen (and Tony Allen knows boneheaded plays), and basically gave the game away.  

I will also say that I really wish Lebron would lay off the theatrics a bit.  He really doesn't need them, and I don't think they come as naturally to him as a guy like KG (who I think is genuinely a bit unbalanced).  I would have a lot more respect for Lebron, if he did his talking with his game, rather than resorting to things that frankly, he doesn't need to do.

The walking away reference was a poor attempt at making fun of Lebron leaving the floor in Boston without shaking hands

He did that against the C's?  I thought it was against the Magic last season?

After game 7 in Boston 2 years ago.  He didn't even speak to the media after that game.  Not his best moment

[MMacOH]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Okay, you are right. I dislike the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (though he is the best basketball player on the planet), because they pose a very real threat to the greatest franchise in basketball, and all of that threat comes from one player and three refs alone.

I love that you snuck the refs into the end of that one.  Clever.

And, I can't argue about the Celtics being the greatest franchise in basketball.  Banners talk.  You won't ever hear me the say the Cavs are the best ever.  I just want them to be the best this year.

[MMacOH]

If the Cavs shooters go cold around Lebron, the ball gets very sticky. Their offensive game plan late in games is often terrible. As good as Mike Brown is at defensive gameplanning, his teams have been equally as predictible and stagnant offensively. Great defensive teams can always stop an offense with no ball movement even if God himself was on the team.  Keep in mind I am talking about playoff basketball when halfcourt offensive execution becomes more important. This year you might be lucky because there are no great defensive teams lurking out there. Orlando and Bos have the ability to be great defensively but they are not there at this moment in the playoffs. Celveland's defense is always stellar but I have seent the Cavs get too comfortable and lax at times even in the playoffs.

They are a great team don't get me wrong but they definitely have flaws and I would not be shocked to see them fail to reach the finals even though I would not bet against it.

I hate the LeIso usually, and it has always been a product of the Cavs shooters going cold, or Mike Brown not knowing what else to do.  Nights when Lebron is on it works great (like last night) but it can also kill a team.  What was weird about last night is that Jamison was not on the floor.  He is their secoond best scoring option on the floor in the 4th and he was on the bench.  Jamison actually knows how to work off the ball, and will not just stand around and watch.  Could have been a recipe for disaster.

Mike Brown continues to rob you guys of Lebron's true offensive potential. Has he ever come out and crticized Lebron or challenged his game at all? They go out and get a terrific offensive player like Jamison and he still has no idea what to do besides isolate Lebron 4o feet from the basket.

It's good for us but at the same time as a basketball fan I want to see this guy in a real offensive system as a basketball fan. As good as Lebron is with the ball, who would stop him off the ball? He should be able to get anywhere on the court and get any position he wants. Maybe if he loses again this year he will realize himself that something needs to change.

Even the greatest of players need some external motivation to get better. I cant think of one person who has publically challenged his game.

Just look at MJ's retirement speech. He is still salty about the people who doubted him throughout his career.

Who would LeBron mention? Skip Bayless?

This is why I think so many Celtics fans are anti-Lebron. You just never hear anything negative about the guy and it kind of sickening. That might be hating but you have to admit it gets a little overblown especially in the playoffs.

Okay the Skip Bayless comment made me crack up, too true.  And I agree with everything you have said here. 

I don't think Brown will ever challenge Lebron which is a bad thing.  That means when Lebron wants the ball at the top of the key, he gets it, whether it is the smart play or not

[MMacOH]

After watching this game tonight, I think there might be a little blood in the water. The cavs do not look so scary and seem vulnerable to me. I'll admit some of this comes from my absolute hate of the cavs and leroid, but they are having trouble with a team that barely made it into the playoffs. I'm willing to bet that Orlando or Boston will knock them out and rob Darth Stern of his wet deam once more.

Another thing I learned tonight is that it's ok if you elbow a guy in the head to get position. But your name has to be Shaq and you have to play for the cavs. This league disgusts me.

Wow.....there are a lot of excuses in this thread.  The Bulls were 6 games over 500 before Noah and Rose went down and then went 8-2 once both of them came back.  

Maybe you should focus on Boston's vulnerability and worry about the Miami match up before you start claiming that Boston will beat the Cavs in the second round huh?

Excuses? Really? Wow a whole six games over mediocrity, that screams NBA elite and shows us that they should be giving the cavs a run If I were a Cleveland fan I would be a little worried. Seems like history might just repeat itself once again. Your a #1 seed thats clawing for a win againts the bulls who had lost ten in a row not too long ago.

Boston may or may not beat cleveland, but I am certain Cleveland isn't going to go to the finals, which is a good thing because it will save them the humiliation.

So let me get this straight...the Cavs won when the Bulls played an excellent game and I should be worried?  The Bulls put their best foot forward tonight and the Cavs beat them.  Worried?  Makes sense.

You're certain they wont make the finals huh?  I guess time will tell.  I swear, there are so many intelligent fans on this site and it's ruined by people with blind hatred

I'm sorry  to tell you, I'm not basing my entire arguement on "blind hate". I do dislike them, but I can make a rational assumption that's not clouded as you so politley stated .
 I saw your team have two close games against a Bulls team that shouldn't be allowed in the same gym as the Lebrons. They had a large lead in the first game and gave it away. They started to build a lead again and the Bulls came back in the second. Sound familiar? Two close games against a team they should be destroying, at home no less.
 
I know my sample size is a bit small, but I don't think it's crazy for someone say that they are not as good as everyone thinks.

And if you want to take a shot at my intelligence, then go right ahead. Just make sure to pay us a visit after the playoffs....

I registered on this site 2 days before you did.  I'm not going anywhere.  I always come back after the playoffs.

[Jon Niednagel]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Okay, you are right. I dislike the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (though he is the best basketball player on the planet), because they pose a very real threat to the greatest franchise in basketball, and all of that threat comes from one player and three refs alone.

I love that you snuck the refs into the end of that one.  Clever.

And, I can't argue about the Celtics being the greatest franchise in basketball.  Banners talk.  You won't ever hear me the say the Cavs are the best ever.  I just want them to be the best this year.

Sadly, I think you will get your wish. If you do, please, please, please crush the Fakers for us. I want humiliation.

[Chris]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Can't say I care as much as everyone else. Lebron's a great player to me, but he's definitely a whiner to me. That can't be argued. I mean, don't you remember that tantrum he threw in the last regular season game against the Celtics? That was just ridiculous. He needs to check himself, sometime.

Well, this is just me talking, but if a guy grabs his crotch and curses me out during a game I am pretty much going to take offense to it and say something. 

Now I don't think he needed to go into their huddle and start yapping.  He could have just walked away.  But we all know how you Boston fans feel about Lebron just walking away.   

I missed the walking away reference, but I have to say, I didn't blame Lebron for going back at Tony Allen, who really had no place talking trash to a guy like Lebron.  On the other hand, Lebron had just made one of the most boneheaded plays I have seen (and Tony Allen knows boneheaded plays), and basically gave the game away.  

I will also say that I really wish Lebron would lay off the theatrics a bit.  He really doesn't need them, and I don't think they come as naturally to him as a guy like KG (who I think is genuinely a bit unbalanced).  I would have a lot more respect for Lebron, if he did his talking with his game, rather than resorting to things that frankly, he doesn't need to do.

The walking away reference was a poor attempt at making fun of Lebron leaving the floor in Boston without shaking hands

He did that against the C's?  I thought it was against the Magic last season?

After game 7 in Boston 2 years ago.  He didn't even speak to the media after that game.  Not his best moment

Ah.  I honestly didn't know that ever happened...I was too busy celebrating

But anyways, I could care less whether he shakes hands at the end of the game, or talks to the media.  I have my doubts whether it was genuine, or just a show, but I do wish more players took these losses more personally.  

[MMacOH]

I just wanted real reasons and all anyone can come up with is you don't get titles for regular season wins, your city sucks, Lebron is going to leave next year, the Cavs don' play defense (completely false), the Cavs don't play team basketball (also false). 

Just be honest and say you hate the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (which he can be sometimes),that they pose a very real threat to the Celtics and that the majority of that threat comes from one player alone. 

Okay, you are right. I dislike the Cavs because Lebron is hyped too much by the media (though he is the best basketball player on the planet), because they pose a very real threat to the greatest franchise in basketball, and all of that threat comes from one player and three refs alone.

Perfect!

TP for you

Its the truth...never have I seen a guy that the NBA has flat out begged to win for the league. The NBA is quite obviously a soap opera with the Ref scandle and the obvious power that ESPN has over the league officials regarding suspensions and such. If ESPN harped on Q being the instigator of the fight, promise you it would have happened. Its the same thing w/ Lequeen every year they hype the hell out of him throughout the regular season and he and his teamates get the star treatment from the refs. I saw a few calls go for Mo Williams yesterday that were obvious "Star calls"  and I had to ask myself, "Wait..when did Mo Williams become a STAR???" He is an average player,  I could pick out 10 PG that are better than him, do you see Rondo get that treatment? no,  Jason Kidd? Not anymore    but both are still better than Mo IMO.  But because he is around Lequeen things go a little different.  Doneghy was right  the league is corrupt, and if the Lakers make the finals w/ Lequeen and the Cavs  its pretty obvious that is the case and we have been watching glorified WWE matches  for all this time.  Rules are rules, they should be followed regardless of who you are and how much your worth, somewhere along the line these stars felt there was a different rulebook composed just for them, and felt that if they whined to the officials enough the calls would go their way, and they did and its WRONG. If it means that my guy fouls out of a game because the rules were followed and I see an honest game? Then so be it, but there is NO reason why a guy that drives as much as Lebron does  doesnt have nearly half as many fouls as other guys with similar game.  Look at his game counts, half the time you dont see him over 3 fouls a game. Thats a joke!!!

So was the league corrupt 2 years ago when the Celtics won the championship?  Or did this just happen recently?

And, I actually agree with you on the Lebron hype.  It annoys me and I am a Cavs fan.  I like the team, not just Lebron.  The little TV thing they did on his blocks during halftime of game 1 was ridiculous.  Listening to ESPN over-dramatize everything he does annoys me.  It makes people hate him through no fault of his own (at least on that front).  How many times have I seen his miracle 3 pointer at the end of game 2 in the Orlando series from last year?  I think somewhere around 50 times and I haven't watched many playoff games outside of the Cavs.  Where are the clips of Rashard's dagger 3s from that series?  Honestly.  Lebron is a great player, but his play gets lost on the fact that the media has already made him better than Jordan and Kobe.  He may be better, but I think that argument needs to be made after he wins a championship

[MMacOH]

After game 7 in Boston 2 years ago.  He didn't even speak to the media after that game.  Not his best moment

Ah.  I honestly didn't know that ever happened...I was too busy celebrating

But anyways, I could care less whether he shakes hands at the end of the game, or talks to the media.  I have my doubts whether it was genuine, or just a show, but I do wish more players took these losses more personally.  

I think he took it personally, and I don't want him to be okay with the loss, but he is a professional and has a job to do.  Part of that job is talking to the media (not necessarily shaking hands).  You have to do your job regardless of how upset you are

[Witch-King]

The only player on the Cavs that I can honestly say that I don't have anything against is Big Z, Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I like Shaq as well, though Z has a better midrange game than he does and I still haven't forgiven Shaq for leaving the Lakers because of the whole Kobe feud and then garunteeing a championship at Miami in his first season there (if you'll remember Dwayne Wade did the majority of the work and won finals MVP so it was clear that if Shaq stayed in LA he would have had to to let Kobe be the leader there anyways).

What's worse was that the season after they won it all and the Heat had a huge slump Shaq 'deserted' Dwayne and went to play for Steve Nash's Suns in Phoenix. Now, imagine Shaq trying to keep up with the high scoring transition offense that the Suns like to employ. Even with all of that the Suns still won more games last season than the the 8th seed of the Eastern Conference (the ghost of Chauncey's Pistons), so I guess Shaq wasn't that out of place with the Suns if you compare that scenario to Allen Iverson's 'stint' in Detroit.

Now he gets traded to Cleveland of all cities and his motto is 'win a ring for the King' ...don't you mean Queen? If Shaq wins it all this year he will have finally gotten back at Kobe seeing as LeBron helped Shaq and the Cavs beat the Lakers twice this season already.

Funny how all of that works out because last season Cleveland's bigs were no match for Dwight Howard (Shaq version 2.0) and Marcin Gortat so If we can't handle the Cavs then I'm sure the Orlando-Cleveland series will be a fun one to watch seeing as Shaq will practically be pitted against a younger version of himself.

[Mr October]

The Cavs are flawed. All the contenders this year have weaknesses. They should all be worried.

None of them come close to the Shaq Lakers, the Duncan in his prime Spurs or never mind the Bulls before that.

Which flaws should have them worried?  Honestly.  Not trying to be a punk, actually just want to chat

Shaq is slow - clogs the paint, and can't defend a pick and role very well. Mobile centers can get by him.

Varajao can't shoot from the outside (neither can Shaq)

The outside shooters tend to get cold. They are very streaky.

Cleveland still reverts to the Lebron iso. Obviously this mostly works, but it can have a compounding damaging effect when the outside shots aren't falling.

More so than any other team, the Cavs are one bad superstar injury away from becoming the worst team left in the playoffs.

Having said all of that, without a doubt, the Cavs are the favorites this year to win the whole thing. Lebron is the best player in the NBA and he is on a mission. Varajao has locked down the role as the Dennis Rodman-esque energy player.

Yet, you can't feel 100% secure about their chances. Or 90... or 75...

They have yet to prove that they can handle the Magic in the playoffs, or the Lakers for that matter.

Heck if you weren't just a little worried about the Celtics, you wouldn't be spending so much time on this blog with the second round still almost 2 weeks away.

[MMacOH]

The Cavs are flawed. All the contenders this year have weaknesses. They should all be worried.

None of them come close to the Shaq Lakers, the Duncan in his prime Spurs or never mind the Bulls before that.

Which flaws should have them worried?  Honestly.  Not trying to be a punk, actually just want to chat

Shaq is slow - clogs the paint, and can't defend a pick and role very well. Mobile centers can get by him.

Varajao can't shoot from the outside (neither can Shaq)

The outside shooters tend to get cold. They are very streaky.

Cleveland still reverts to the Lebron iso. Obviously this mostly works, but it can have a compounding damaging effect when the outside shots aren't falling.

More so than any other team, the Cavs are one bad superstar injury away from becoming the worst team left in the playoffs.

Having said all of that, without a doubt, the Cavs are the favorites this year to win the whole thing. Lebron is the best player in the NBA and he is on a mission. Varajao has locked down the role as the Dennis Rodman-esque energy player.

Yet, you can't feel 100% secure about their chances. Or 90... or 75...

They have yet to prove that they can handle the Magic in the playoffs, or the Lakers for that matter.

Heck if you weren't just a little worried about the Celtics, you wouldn't be spending so much time on this blog with the second round still almost 2 weeks away.

I can't argue a whole lot with what you have said here.  I am pretty confident that the Cavs will make it through the East.  I am not aogant enough to say that they definitely will.  I think they match up very well with both the Celtics and the Magic this year.  I honestly think the East is theirs to lose.

As for why I hang out here so much?  This board tends to talk basketball a lot more than Cleveland boards.  There is one decent cleveland forum I go to, but it has a lot of worthless posts in it as well.  I also like talking about basketball with people who don't share the same opinion as me.