Doc is to Blame!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

ut it is true that it isn't all doc's fault, last game i saw selfish play (before the Milw game) finley a few times had sheldon on the post, open, and looked away from him to waste a possesion. The point isn't that it was sheldon, it was the attitude to not pass to the open guy, in better position. Rondo uses sheldon all the time, and the results are....an assist. Sheed (Antoine) chucking 3's.....never crossing that line on offense, we had a guy like that before...MD is so tentative with his play now, he looks as though he is playing double safe, to preserve his health.....Nate, i don't know what is wrong with him....I'd have to know what his previous stats were, was he a 10 points for 20-30 shots guy before....like Allen Iverson...?

[MBunge]

I think we can all agree that most of the blame should fall on the players but that Doc deserves criticism for being unwilling/unable to even TRY to do anything about this team's frequently unacceptable level of effort and focus.

However, I think the point needs to be emphasized that age is not at fault with this team.  They might be too old to beat the Hawks or the Cavs in the playoffs, but age is not the reason this team has stunk out the area so often against mediocre to poor teams this season.  These Cs have lost 10 games this year to sub .500 opponents and 7 of those loses were to sub .400 teams.  If they'd won just 6 of thos games, these Cs would be battling for 2nd best record in the league.

This team may be too old to match the NBA elite, but age is no excuse for the too often pathetic performances against NBA also rans.

Mike

[nickagneta]

Meadowlark, I'm not coming at you strong, I'm just telling you how things are. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me like you've been or are a player on a team, but also have never coached. I don't know but judging from what you have said, it sure seems that way.

Well, how players see things and how coaches see things are completely different.

Players want to win games and will want the coach to try anything at the expense of anyone to try to win a game. A coach will try to win within a system while doing what is in the best interests of the team and sometimes whats in the best interests of the team is to stick with the system and lose.

Phil; Jackson just isn't going to suddenly bench Andrew Bynum or Pau Gasol if they struggle and stick in Lamar Odom. Stan Van Gundy isn't going to stop starting Dwight Howard or Rashard Lewis to start Marcin Gortat or Brandon Bass because he likes a matchup better against another team. Rick Carlysle isn't going to sit Jason Kidd and start Jose Juan Barea because Barea is a better match up for Chris Paul.

This stuff you are talking about doesn't happen anywhere, not just here. This is not something that is specific to Doc. All higher level coaches do it. They set up their starters, usually because they are the best at their positions. Sometimes, you start a weaker player and bring in a stronger player off the bench because you want a boost off the bench. But that's a philosophical difference. But you do not set up you team hierarchy of starters-rotational bench players-end of the bench players and just start making constant interchanges within that hierarchy game to game just to win one game.

Players have to know their roles and perform in their roles. Players have to prove they deserve a promotion within the hierarchy to get that promotion or be promoted through necessity by trade or injury. You just don't move guys all over the place and take them in and out of roles to win one game here and one game there.

You don't like a match up or find you are weak in a certain spot, you change your defensive scheme slightly and or run different offensive sets. You don't change personnel.

You have your favorites on this team, that's fine we all do. But those favorites have to earn playing time and, sorry, but benching KG to start Sheldon to boost Sheldon's confidence or sitting Ray to start TA is bad overall for the team. Awful for the team. Nothing good comes from telling KG you are going to come off the bench today while we start Shelden because.....(fill in the blank). A coach will completely mentally lose a team over something like that and more than likely have to answer to the GM who would fire him for such a thing.

And your instances where Scal or Powe started and played well were instances where someone else was injured and they got promoted to the starting role because of someone else's injury. Just like I said. It never made Scal or Powe better players. It just gave them a chance to play longer minutes with a better set of players and allowed them to play above and beyond for a night or more as they helped a team fill in for an injured player. That happens all the time.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

well, somewhat you have a point, but the leon one is..well it proved itself, if anyone remembers, after leon started he became THE sixth man, the guy NO ONE had an answer for...come on, you HAVE to remember that, he was a     bench (ed) player, he didn't start because of an injury, there really wasn't any that year. It was a good coach decision to build a player for the playoffs.  Thanks for the credit, and i am not wanting to come at you either..i don't come here for anything else but to BS and talk ball...I do play...(too much) and as a player & coach at the same time. I have learned quite a lot from it, it takes a lot of work, and until you do it, one can never realize the pressure of those last 2 minutes when the game is close, i wasn't always good at it at first...but have learned, i know you coach...look at cleve today, look at what they are doing,,,,it is excatly what i was saying, bench players starting, pros sitting....what does he know that doc doesn't.....it is not diff i know we are going for a diff spot....but the idea of it...think about it....

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Starting Sheldon ahead of.....KG...i didn't mean to say that, or that way...but i do not feel starting is a permanent right......But remember Doc started SCAL over sheldon, a move no one can understand or defend....Scal did not ever do anything on the floor. Sheldon keeps doing more, and exactly what we want, rebounding, always heads to the hoop when a shooter has the ball, always looking for the post pass ( that hardly ever comes), rondo or TA really are the only ones who will pass to him, another coaching failure, if they are on the floor, if they are open, include them...i know how players think, well regular ones, local league, they exclude guys, only to the teams detriment (spelling?) Rondo has used sheldon to our advantage, did you see him get 12 points in 12 minutes....or close to that....and what did our genius coach do after those EARLY points and perfomance....he pulled him and never put him back in...anyone else would have went to him till it was stopped by the othert team..not doc....Tommy H made sheldon player of the game....doc benched him.....look at the bench assistants, sam cassel, tyron..doc is like a state employee, hiring all his friends...doing anything he wants unregulated with our team (taxes)  LOL.....

[nickagneta]

well, somewhat you have a point, but the leon one is..well it proved itself, if anyone remembers, after leon started he became THE sixth man, the guy NO ONE had an answer for...come on, you HAVE to remember that, he was a     bench (ed) player, he didn't start because of an injury, there really wasn't any that year. It was a good coach decision to build a player for the playoffs.  Thanks for the credit, and i am not wanting to come at you either..i don't come here for anything else but to BS and talk ball...I do play...(too much) and as a player & coach at the same time. I have learned quite a lot from it, it takes a lot of work, and until you do it, one can never realize the pressure of those last 2 minutes when the game is close, i wasn't always good at it at first...but have learned, i know you coach...look at cleve today, look at what they are doing,,,,it is excatly what i was saying, bench players starting, pros sitting....what does he know that doc doesn't.....it is not diff i know we are going for a diff spot....but the idea of it...think about it....

Cleveland is resting their starers now, not subbing in bench players for starters to give them more PT or to take advantage of a match up. Big difference.

And Powe only ever started for the Celtics because someone else was injured or because Doc was resting starters. In 2006-07, Powe started two games because Perk had plantar faceitis and Doc wanted to play him limited minutes. In 2007-08 he started 3 games in the middle of the year when both KG and Perk were down and 2 at the end of the year when all three of the Big Three sat because of rest before the playoffs. In 2008-09 he started one game when Perk was injured and 6 games when KG and Scal were both out in Feb. He NEVER started because he was rewarded a start over another starter. Never happened.

[nickagneta]

Scal started three games this year when KG AND Rasheed were injured over Shelden AND big Baby because the teams they were playing Atlanta(Josh Smith), New jersey(Yi Jianlian), and Chicago(Taj Gibson) all had very athletic mobile PFs that neither Baby nor Sheldon would be a good defensive matchup for.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

well, ou are right, now i remember perks foot....but the point was supposed to be, look at how it turned out ny starting leon....i know for a fact, he wnet straight up after that and became...what we needed, and what the other team didn't figure on. What are we missing now....a Leon Powe stands out in my mind...every team wants one of them. Sheldon has shown that style, and results.....but it doesn't matter here anymore, we've stated our views enough on this...you have good facts...but some results don't add up.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

There never was a good reason to play scal, over anyone. His D was either average or much less, and the fact that he was non-existant on offense made it even easier for the other team. He runs to the corner, and has no shooting ability. Now if he could rebound, post, oh forget it.