Should TA Be Re-Signed?

[Fafnir]

No -- (1) Tony Allen isn't dependable (2) His lack of a jump shot is a large issue

The Celtics should focus on replacing him with a minimum contract player who is able to play solid defense and hit perimeter jump shots at a serviceable clip.

Next year's Keith Bogans.

[the_Bird]

I think a lot depends on whether they re-sign Quis.  Redundant to keep both of those guys around.  Tend to think they'd rather keep Quis, he's got better size and is a little more versatile.

TA's been playing really well, and it's nice that he's now able to do well even when he's not getting consistent playing time.  Used to be that you'd only get Good Tony when he was getting a lot of minutes, but he seems (finally) to be comfortable in a supporting role.  I'd be fine with bringing him back, but none of the supporting players are going to be offered more than a two-year contract.  

But, two-year, $5M?  Sounds about right.  Don't see how he'd get any more than that on the open market.

[Chris]

I think it is tough to project a price right now, because we don't know what the market will look like.  I think there is a good chance that after the top tier FA's, pretty much everyone else is going to be frozen out.  A lot of teams are not going to use their MLE's, and if they do, it will be on 1 year deals.  So there is a good chance guys like TA might be only looking at vet minimum deals. 

[the_Bird]

I don't see the correlation between our results in the playoffs and Ray's future with the C's. I understand the idea but whether we win it all, fall short or get beaten badly in the first or second round, it would be a mistake to let Ray go for a simple reason : his departure wouldn't do anything good to us since we wouldn't been able to sign somebody else with his expiring money, and we will still need somebody to fill the guard spot, and which player better than Ray could we realistically (key word here) afford? Nobody.

Shooters like Ray are really rare in the game and they are very valuable. Even if Ray is less efficient than before and starting to show age he would still be big for us as a starting guard or as a potential 6th man. Basically, re-signing him costs us nothing in terms of financial flexibility and it fills a big need, so I don't see the correlation between our results in the playoffs and Ray's situation. Sure, Danny could choose to blow it all up if things went really bad (we know they won't) but what's the point of blowing it all for the sake of blowing it up if you can re-sign a good player like Ray for "nothing"?

Anyway, to come back to the subject of the thread, I think TA should be re-signed. The best case scenario would be to re-sign him to a one year contract so he can play like he did this season because he is in a contract year.

I hope, and think Ray will come back. He's no longer an all star. But if he can be re-upped for about $8-9 million per year over 1-2 years, he'd be coming back at great value. He's still a lethal scorer with excellent conditioning.

However if the C's completely embarrass themselves in the playoffs like Stein and Hollinger seem to believe, then the Celtics may want to strip down and trade all the older guys. Maybe Ray can be sign and traded for a younger player or a modest draft pick. You never know. And we're still a ways away from being forced to make that decision.

I think a contender would offer Ray the midlevel exception so we would need to beat that.  But I am thinking 8-9 million is a little to high.  In the end, it may ultimately depend on the number of years.  For us, two years would be ideal.  But I fear it might take at least three years.

I tend to think a 2 year/$20M contract offer is fair to Ray, in-line with what he's likely to be offered elsewhere, and doesn't hurt our future options.  The team can't have cap space before 2012 anyway.  Ray's shown that he can still play, and even if we DO need to get younger, we don't really have the option to do that right away anyway.  We're not going to find a younger player that's worth building around at just the MLE.  So, give Ray two years, ride the Big 3 as long as we can, and plan on the team looking wholly different in 2012.

EDIT: A two-year, $20M contract is likely to be the same as a 1 year, $10M contract - unless a miracle happens and there *isn't* a lockout in '11 - '12.

[housecall]

absolutely not...when you look at the big picture of risk/rewards,the risk outwieghs the rewards of TA playing for the Celtics both past&future.I am not a TA hater but i feel its time to look into a different direction with role players for the future.

But the little i know about D.Ainge feelings about TA,id say they will probably resign him regardless.

[Ersatz]

Not yeah, but bleep yeah. Depending on price, of course. With the way he's played this year, I think he's likely to get some decent offers, but I hope the Cs can keep him.

People act like it's easy to find defense as good as Tony's. It's not. Tony's not just a good defender; he's a great one. If he were a full-time player, he would easily be all-NBA. (Quick: name a 2 that's clearly better than Tony. Kobe and Wade come to mind, but neither are obviously better.)

Tony is not a good outside shooter, admittedly. But that's why we aren't going to pay him $8 mil a year. But he's a better-than-average slasher, and his mid-range game is much improved this year.

If we are going to sign Ray and if we lose Daniels, then signing Tony is not just an option; it's an imperative.

[Mr October]

I don't see the correlation between our results in the playoffs and Ray's future with the C's. I understand the idea but whether we win it all, fall short or get beaten badly in the first or second round, it would be a mistake to let Ray go for a simple reason : his departure wouldn't do anything good to us since we wouldn't been able to sign somebody else with his expiring money, and we will still need somebody to fill the guard spot, and which player better than Ray could we realistically (key word here) afford? Nobody.

Shooters like Ray are really rare in the game and they are very valuable. Even if Ray is less efficient than before and starting to show age he would still be big for us as a starting guard or as a potential 6th man. Basically, re-signing him costs us nothing in terms of financial flexibility and it fills a big need, so I don't see the correlation between our results in the playoffs and Ray's situation. Sure, Danny could choose to blow it all up if things went really bad (we know they won't) but what's the point of blowing it all for the sake of blowing it up if you can re-sign a good player like Ray for "nothing"?

Anyway, to come back to the subject of the thread, I think TA should be re-signed. The best case scenario would be to re-sign him to a one year contract so he can play like he did this season because he is in a contract year.

I hope, and think Ray will come back. He's no longer an all star. But if he can be re-upped for about $8-9 million per year over 1-2 years, he'd be coming back at great value. He's still a lethal scorer with excellent conditioning.

However if the C's completely embarrass themselves in the playoffs like Stein and Hollinger seem to believe, then the Celtics may want to strip down and trade all the older guys. Maybe Ray can be sign and traded for a younger player or a modest draft pick. You never know. And we're still a ways away from being forced to make that decision.

I think a contender would offer Ray the midlevel exception so we would need to beat that.  But I am thinking 8-9 million is a little to high.  In the end, it may ultimately depend on the number of years.  For us, two years would be ideal.  But I fear it might take at least three years.

It all depends on what happens at the top of the free agent heap. But if there is a 500 team who has some dough (like Chicago or Miami) and fails to land a big name, it is possible they could throw a 2 year $8-10 million per contract at Ray Allen. Impossible to predict now, but will make for some fun discussion this summer.

[BballTim]

I think the more interesting topic is whether or not Ray Allen should be re-signed.

I think the answer depends on how far we go in the playoffs.

  I think it has more to do with his asking price. Even if we bring in another wing (with only the MLE to spend), he'd still be an upgrade over TA/Marqis/Finley. I think they might end up with a 3 player rotation between Paul, Ray and a third wing that they bring in.

[ManUp]

I think Tony will want more years than we are willing to give.

Hopefully he builds value so we can sign and trade him.

[nickagneta]

If he were a full-time player, he would easily be all-NBA. (Quick: name a 2 that's clearly better than Tony. Kobe and Wade come to mind, but neither are obviously better.)

I little over the deep end with the Tony love here.

Shane Battier
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
Aaron Afflalo
Thabo Sefolosha
Dahntay Jones
Andre Iguodala
Brandon Roy
Corey Brewer
Ronnie Brewer
Kirk Hinrich
Courtney Lee
Rip Hamilton


There's a bunch of players just off the top of my head that I happen to think are consistently better defenders than Tony. There's.....13 there and I didn't even go looking at rosters to find any. Tony is a good defender who's consistency on that end wanders most of the time and who can be caught playing off his man looking for the steal all too often and also get faked into the air way too easily. He's also reckless and foul prone.

Sorry, Tony is not ALL-NBA anything if he were to become a starter somewhere. That's just not true.

[slamtheking]

the key opportunity here for TA is the fact that the C's will have little money to spend on outside FA's.  They can re-sign their own FA's but have only the MLE and Vet Min to offer other FAs. 

...and have I mentioned (this week) that we have only 6 guys under contract so far?

if he's still around when we're done looking around, there's no question in my mind that we'd toss a contract offer at him for a minimal raise from his current salary

Don't we have an ability to offer Landry a qualifying offer and keep him as well?

The question is why?  I'm all for developing young talent when we have some but is he really worth keeping?  Couldn't we find someone like him with experience using the vet min or bring in undrafted players or even buy up some second round picks to accumulate some end-of-the-roster fodder?

I didn't think Walker or Giddens got a legitimate chance here.  I'm not having the same inclinations for Landry.  Nothing against him, but I just don't think he'll do much (here or elsewhere).

[nickagneta]

Here's a copy of all the 2010 free agents at shooting guard and their status. Gauge for yourself who you think will be available to the Celtics at what they have to offer. Those I color in red are unattainable or undesirable in my opinion:

Kobe Bryant     Player option
Dwyane Wade    Player option
Joe Johnson    Unrestricted
Manu Ginobili    Unrestricted
Ray Allen    Unrestricted
Michael Redd    Early termination option
Nate Robinson    Unrestricted
Roger Mason    Unrestricted
Randy Foye    Restricted
Mike Miller    Unrestricted
Ronald Murray    Unrestricted
Chris Douglas-Roberts    Team option
Anthony Morrow    Option on restriction
Marquis Daniels    Unrestricted
Raja Bell    Unrestricted
Carlos Delfino    Partially guaranteed
Maurice Evans    Player option
Quinton Ross    Player option
Rodney Carney    Unrestricted
Keith Bogans    Unrestricted
Larry Hughes    Unrestricted
Malik Hairston    Unguaranteed
DeShawn Stevenson    Player option
Tony Allen    Unrestricted
Kyle Weaver    Unguaranteed
J.J. Redick    Restricted
Luther Head    Unrestricted
Mardy Collins    Restricted
Willie Green    Early termination option
Wesley Matthews    Option on restriction
Sonny Weems    Unguaranteed
Javaris Crittenton    Unrestricted
J.R. Giddens    Unrestricted
Devin Brown    Unrestricted
Mario West    Option on restriction
Cuttino Mobley    Unrestricted

Kinda doesn't leave a lot of good options, does it?

[kozlodoev]

Aflalo, Ronnie Brewer, and Kirk Hinrich? Better defensively than Tony Allen? Really?  

You might need to go a little further than the top of your head

[2short]

IF:
its affordable
finley ages more or moves on
marquis goes elsewhere
tony isn't looking for long term contract

business sense:
he's oft injured
turnover prone
a sg size in swingmans body (isn't ray taller?)
can't shoot from outside well enough

I do LOVE he & rondo on the floor together wrecking havoc with the defense.  That is a dj/ainge like backcourt

[Who]

Tony Allen will not get offered more than $2 million per annum by another team and it's very unlikely that any team will offer him a contract that lasts past one season.