Rondo is Average

[Vermont Green]

Rondo is certainly far better than "average" but do we really think he is the best in the league?  I like his attitude, focus, grittiness, all those intangible things.  He doesn't do dances after dunks or do any show-boating at all he is all business and I love that.  He still can't shoot well enough though to be the best point gaurd in the league.  And the steal (I guess it counts as a steal) is now an all time highlight.  As well as the Celtics are playing, I feel there are a few PG's in the league who would make the Celtics even better.  Chris Paul and Deron Williams for sure and Westbrook is right there too.  Rondo I guess is in my top 5 conversation for sure but that is as high as I can go until he gets a more reliable shot.

[BballTim]

Rondo is certainly far better than "average" but do we really think he is the best in the league?  I like his attitude, focus, grittiness, all those intangible things.  He doesn't do dances after dunks or do any show-boating at all he is all business and I love that.  He still can't shoot well enough though to be the best point gaurd in the league.  And the steal (I guess it counts as a steal) is now an all time highlight.  As well as the Celtics are playing, I feel there are a few PG's in the league who would make the Celtics even better.  Chris Paul and Deron Williams for sure and Westbrook is right there too.  Rondo I guess is in my top 5 conversation for sure but that is as high as I can go until he gets a more reliable shot.

  So players that can't pass, rebound, defend or score close to the basket can be better than Rondo simply because they have a better outside shot? Rondo can dominate games against the best teams in the league on a regular basis but he's no better than "in the conversation for top 5 pgs" because of his outside shooting?

  I'm not saying he's undoubtedly the best pg in the league but I'd say he's pretty much put to rest any talk that his jumpshot limits his value or effectiveness.

[ToppersBsktball10]

Rondo is an average PG. He can't carry a team a la Steve Nash, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams. He is not a scoring threat a la Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Tyreke Evans. Is he better than Aaron Brooks? (questionable) Is he better than Derrick Rose? (Noo) In couple of years, you can add Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jonny Flynn, Rodney Stuckey, and Darren Collison to list of guys that will surpass Rondo.

A nice building block, but not a franchise player.

How do you feel about that statement now? Steve Nash, Chris Paul and Deron Williams did a GREAT job carrying their teams right? I mean there's plenty of rings between those three  . Rondo can almost score at will, and if not score he can get someone like Ray going for a big night. He is much better than anyone you mentioned after Nash, Paul and Williams. You also forget Russell Westbrook on that list, who will be a top 5 point guard soon, but not better than Rondo. He carried us last year, AND this year. So much more to touch on, but whatever.

[wdleehi]

Anyone else very happy that Rondo has another level he plays at in the playoffs?

[BballTim]

Anyone else very happy that Rondo has another level he plays at in the playoffs?

  The good news is that there's always a carry-over to the next season.

[snively]

Rondo's defense in these playoffs has been amazing.  Truly 1st team caliber. 

[ajgoodman]

Rondo is far from average, but I don't think he's as great as a lot of Celtics fans make him out to be.

The guy knows exactly how to pad his rebounding, steals, and assists statistics which fabricate his "dominance."

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

[ibby]

Rondo is an average PG. He can't carry a team a la Steve Nash, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams. He is not a scoring threat a la Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Tyreke Evans. Is he better than Aaron Brooks? (questionable) Is he better than Derrick Rose? (Noo) In couple of years, you can add Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jonny Flynn, Rodney Stuckey, and Darren Collison to list of guys that will surpass Rondo.

A nice building block, but not a franchise player.

The best Rondo comparison that I can think of is Jason Kidd.  Defense, great passing, incredible rebounding for his size, poor-to-mediocre shooting.  

Kidd should have been league MVP his first first year in New Jersey, but people said his job was too easy because he was playing with Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson.

Looking at Martin and Jefferson now I think it is safe to say that their careers were made due to Kidd, not vice-versa.  Granted Garnett, Allen, and Pierce are far superior to Martin and Jefferson, but keeping three former first options happy is tough work.

And when you consider how many of his assists are to the second unit (BBD and TA primarily) you have to give the guy a lot of credit.

Steve Nash and Chris Paul do not carry their teams, and do not play the defense of Rondo.  Chauncey Billups in his prime was better but he is not the play maker Rondo is, neither is Tony Parker.  Tyreke Evans is a scorer and seems to be a bad teammate.  I don't know enough about Aaron Brooks. Rodney Stuckey, Jonny Flynn, and Darren Collison shoud not even be mentioned in the same breath as Rondo.  Stephen Curry will develop into a different kind of players.  Brandon Jennings may surpass Rondo someday.  

Lastly Deron Williams is in a league of his own.  He is the best PG in the league as of this moment, but Rondo is either second or third.  I don't see how that is average.

[ibby]

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

Jameer Nelson had been tearing through the playoffs.  Rondo has essentially shut him down.  I agree with your steal assessment, but his defense is more than that.  I even agree that at times he pads his rebounding stats, but how exactly does one pad assists?  Making the pass to the open man?  Giving up the ball on the fast break?  One extra pass?  Those are all good basketball.

[action781]

Rondo is far from average, but I don't think he's as great as a lot of Celtics fans make him out to be.

The guy knows exactly how to pad his rebounding, steals, and assists statistics which fabricate his "dominance."

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

I think he does "dominate" a game, but in a different way than most.  I say to my friends that he "dominates" with his game-changing ability.  The way he turns steals into baskets, fakes out star big men, lays floaters up over them, grabs o-boards over them all are such momentum swinging plays that they are worth more than just the 2 points that go on the scoreboard.

Rondo is an average PG. He can't carry a team a la Steve Nash, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams. He is not a scoring threat a la Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Tyreke Evans. Is he better than Aaron Brooks? (questionable) Is he better than Derrick Rose? (Noo) In couple of years, you can add Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jonny Flynn, Rodney Stuckey, and Darren Collison to list of guys that will surpass Rondo.

A nice building block, but not a franchise player.

The best Rondo comparison that I can think of is Jason Kidd.  Defense, great passing, incredible rebounding for his size, poor-to-mediocre shooting. 

Interesting, not a bad comparison.  I've always thought more like Tony Parker because of how he gets into the lane, can hit that floater, and shoots such a high percentage in there despite not having a jumpshot.  But the more I think about it, he's more of a passer like Kidd and can show flashes of rebounding like Kidd (but not quite as consistent).  Maybe he's a hybrid of the 2.  Then throw in the will, desire, and hustle of Iverson (2001).

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

Rondo still gambles, but he's become much better at keeping his man in front of him this season.

At this point, I don't think there are *any* lockdown defenders at the point guard position.  What you see from Rondo is about as good as it gets from NBA point guards, even while acknowledging that there's room for improvement.

[ibby]

Interesting, not a bad comparison.  I've always thought more like Tony Parker because of how he gets into the lane, can hit that floater, and shoots such a high percentage in there despite not having a jumpshot.  But the more I think about it, he's more of a passer like Kidd and can show flashes of rebounding like Kidd (but not quite as consistent).  Maybe he's a hybrid of the 2.  Then throw in the will, desire, and hustle of Iverson (2001).

Granted Kidd averaged somewhere between 14 and 18 ppg during his prime.  But most of those were either free throws or getting by his man on the dribble like Rondo.  Now he wasn't as acrobatic as Rondo can be, or as smooth as Parker is, but his scoring came in the same ways that Rondo's come.

[cornbreadsmart]

I feel we have a mental edge all the time with rondo. His decision making and pacing everything is just always perfect. He's like chuncey billups in that way only BETTER.

[ajgoodman]

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

Jameer Nelson had been tearing through the playoffs.  Rondo has essentially shut him down.  I agree with your steal assessment, but his defense is more than that.  I even agree that at times he pads his rebounding stats, but how exactly does one pad assists?  Making the pass to the open man?  Giving up the ball on the fast break?  One extra pass?  Those are all good basketball.

Instance that really stuck in my mind is when Rondo stood still on a fast break and waiting 5 seconds for Perk to show up with a defender to pass it off to him.  "Getting good with the bigs?" I don't think so.

Rondo is not shutting down Jameer Nelson, the Celtics' team defense is.  How many times have opposing point guards lit up the Celtics?  i.e. Baron Davis, Jason Kidd, etc.

[BballTim]

Rondo is far from average, but I don't think he's as great as a lot of Celtics fans make him out to be.

The guy knows exactly how to pad his rebounding, steals, and assists statistics which fabricate his "dominance."

  This is ridiculous. If anything, Rondo keeps his stats artificially low because he tries so hard to keep his teammates involved.

I don't think Rondo deserved all-defensive team.  All of you will pipe in with all his steal numbers, but almost all of them are caused by unnecessary gambles that 9/10 times end up in an easy basket.

  I checked his "opposing player" stats on 82games.com near the end of the year. He holds opposing point guards to the fewest assists of any pg, forces the most turnovers, and was in the top 10 for fewest points allowed. He was first team all defense (leading all guards in voting), finished 4th or 5th in defensive player of the year (ahead of all other guards). In a poll of GMs before the season he was chosen the best perimeter defender in the league. At this point in time it's a lot harder to find any evidence that he isn't the best defensive pg in the league than evidence that he is.