What a waste. This team is Pathetic.

[Chris]

LOL. I can't believe people are really debating whether or not the team is "pathetic". It's an insane idea that a team that is 40-21 in one of the most competitive NBA situations in recent memory is "pathetic". Why don't you go ask the coaches and GM's across the league if the C's are "pathetic". The Knicks are pathetic. The Wiz with Butler and Jamison were pathetic. Stop with this ridiculous nonsense...

I'd agree that the thread title is a bit over the top.

But if you look at the rest of the thread, that's not really what we're debating.

A "bit" over the top? LOL. It's asanine. I'm not sure what it is that we're debating then. That the C's aren't playing at 100% every night? I think that's obvious. What's up for debate I guess is should we be jumping out of windows yet? Come on, there's still over 20 games to go and we're 8-3 since the ASB. Hang on guys..

Well, some might argue that the C's not giving 100% effort every night is pathetic.

I am not sitting here saying this team is not going to win a championship, because I do not necessarily believe that.  However, gun to my head, I find it a bit pathetic that these guys cannot focus for 82 games...or 62 games even.

Now, that's certainly not fair, because no team gives 100% every night.  But a lot of teams give a whole lot more effort and focus than this C's team has this season. 

  Which teams are those? We haven't had the same lineup for more than a couple of games in a row since Xmas and there's only 3 teams in the league with fewer losses than us.

Effort is not measured by wins and losses.  This team is one of the top 2-3 most talented teams in the league, therefore, their record shows that, whether they are always trying or not.

Off the top of my head, I would say that Milwaukee, OKC, Memphis, and Cleveland all have given more consistent effort than this C's team. 

But honestly, that doesn't matter to me.  I don't care about comparing teams effort, I care about the effort the C's give.  And if it is not 100%, then I am disappointed.

  They're one of the top 2-3 teams in the league when healthy, which they haven't been for long stretches. Some of it's effort but a lot of it is cohesiveness and momentum.

Some of it is effort.  You said it yourself.  Therefore, I am disappointed.  Is that so hard to understand?

  Yes, some of it is effort, which I don't think seperates them from the rest of the league. Be as disappointed as you like. Is that any harder to understand?

I never said this was a rational thing.  You are absolutely right that the rest of the league mail games in as well (although I personally think the C's have mailed in more than many teams...particularly teams in a playoff race)...but I don't cheer for those teams, and those teams did not raise the bar two years ago by playing like warriors all season long.

[Onslaught]

LOL. I can't believe people are really debating whether or not the team is "pathetic". It's an insane idea that a team that is 40-21 in one of the most competitive NBA situations in recent memory is "pathetic". Why don't you go ask the coaches and GM's across the league if the C's are "pathetic". The Knicks are pathetic. The Wiz with Butler and Jamison were pathetic. Stop with this ridiculous nonsense...

I'd agree that the thread title is a bit over the top.

But if you look at the rest of the thread, that's not really what we're debating.

A "bit" over the top? LOL. It's asanine. I'm not sure what it is that we're debating then. That the C's aren't playing at 100% every night? I think that's obvious. What's up for debate I guess is should we be jumping out of windows yet? Come on, there's still over 20 games to go and we're 8-3 since the ASB. Hang on guys..

Well, some might argue that the C's not giving 100% effort every night is pathetic.

I am not sitting here saying this team is not going to win a championship, because I do not necessarily believe that.  However, gun to my head, I find it a bit pathetic that these guys cannot focus for 82 games...or 62 games even.

Now, that's certainly not fair, because no team gives 100% every night.  But a lot of teams give a whole lot more effort and focus than this C's team has this season. 

  Which teams are those? We haven't had the same lineup for more than a couple of games in a row since Xmas and there's only 3 teams in the league with fewer losses than us.

Effort is not measured by wins and losses.  This team is one of the top 2-3 most talented teams in the league, therefore, their record shows that, whether they are always trying or not.

Off the top of my head, I would say that Milwaukee, OKC, Memphis, and Cleveland all have given more consistent effort than this C's team. 

But honestly, that doesn't matter to me.  I don't care about comparing teams effort, I care about the effort the C's give.  And if it is not 100%, then I am disappointed.

  They're one of the top 2-3 teams in the league when healthy, which they haven't been for long stretches. Some of it's effort but a lot of it is cohesiveness and momentum.

But last year we had people out too and I still felt like the team was trying in every game. I just don't see the same level these days.

[Chris]

BTW, all of this talking about the C's being too old to go 100% all season long does not explain why Rondo and Perkins mentally check out for long periods of time.  Or how about Sheed, I know he is old, but would it really hurt him to play hard for 20 minutes? 

This team simply does not have the focus it has had in the past, and that is frustrating and disappointing.  And I also find it disapointing that so many people want to make excuses for them. 

I am certainly not jumping off the tobin, and I have not been questioning their ability to win a championship this year.  I just think a championship caliber team should carry themselves this way.  Especially a team that opened up the season talking openly about having the best defense EVER, and shooting for 70 wins. 

[crownsy]

Celtics posters calling a team that is going to be at worst fourth in the east pathetic makes me chuckle.

How far we've come in being spoiled. 2 years ago we would have killed for a team that could win 35 games, now a team that wins less than 60 is "pathetic" and a "waste"

Celticsblog, where amazing happens 

They are certainly not the favroites in the east. But to call this team pathetic and a waste is only the other side of the coin from the posters who are seen as overly positive.

The celtics are a very good team with several flaws. They are most likely not good enough to win it all. They are still, however, going to end up winning 55 or so games and hosting a playoff series or two, depending on how Atlanta and orlando finsh down the stretch.

IF that's pathetic and a waste of time to watch....i shudder to think how posters like the OP will handle when we truly aren't a good team in 2-3 years.

[Greenbean]

BTW, all of this talking about the C's being too old to go 100% all season long does not explain why Rondo and Perkins mentally check out for long periods of time.  Or how about Sheed, I know he is old, but would it really hurt him to play hard for 20 minutes? 

This team simply does not have the focus it has had in the past, and that is frustrating and disappointing.  And I also find it disapointing that so many people want to make excuses for them. 

I am certainly not jumping off the tobin, and I have not been questioning their ability to win a championship this year.  I just think a championship caliber team should carry themselves this way.  Especially a team that opened up the season talking openly about having the best defense EVER, and shooting for 70 wins. 

You are right. There hasn't been as much accountability on this year's team.  The guys that used to hold the young guys accountable for focus and execution can no longer do so since they themselves are not (or not able) putting forth max effort..

Maybe that is part of this transition from old leadership (Big 3) to new leadership (Rondo).

The dynamic of this year's locker room is very complicated I would have to guess.

That is why it is nice to bring in Nate, who has been described as a free spirit and a breath of fresh air by coaches and players for his energy.

It is also nice to bring in Finley who has ALWAYS been a great locker room guy.

[GreenFaith1819]

Celtics posters calling a team that is going to be at worst fourth in the east pathetic makes me chuckle.

How far we've come in being spoiled. 2 years ago we would have killed for a team that could win 35 games, now a team that wins less than 60 is "pathetic" and a "waste"

Celticsblog, where amazing happens 

They are certainly not the favroites in the east. But to call this team pathetic and a waste is only the other side of the coin from the posters who are seen as overly positive.

The celtics are a very good team with several flaws. They are most likely not good enough to win it all. They are still, however, going to end up winning 55 or so games and hosting a playoff series or two, depending on how Atlanta and orlando finsh down the stretch.

IF that's pathetic and a waste of time to watch....i shudder to think how posters like the OP will handle when we truly aren't a good team in 2-3 years.

Tommy Point for about 95% of what you said...

However I still believe we have what it takes to win it all this year..that's just me.

[EJPLAYA]

Celtics posters calling a team that is going to be at worst fourth in the east pathetic makes me chuckle.

How far we've come in being spoiled. 2 years ago we would have killed for a team that could win 35 games, now a team that wins less than 60 is "pathetic" and a "waste"

Celticsblog, where amazing happens 

They are certainly not the favroites in the east. But to call this team pathetic and a waste is only the other side of the coin from the posters who are seen as overly positive.

The celtics are a very good team with several flaws. They are most likely not good enough to win it all. They are still, however, going to end up winning 55 or so games and hosting a playoff series or two, depending on how Atlanta and orlando finsh down the stretch.

IF that's pathetic and a waste of time to watch....i shudder to think how posters like the OP will handle when we truly aren't a good team in 2-3 years.

I was less disgusted with the Pre-Big 3 team than I am now with this group of guys who feel they don't have to go out and give their all. That other team may not have been good, but they over-achieved. This team's effort IS a joke other than a couple guys. I think that Ray gives it his all. I think that KG gives his all. (unfortunately that isn't what it used to be) I think Scal gives his all in limited minutes. Perk usually does, however that has been slipping. There is nothing wrong in expecting multi-millionaires to give their all each game rather than acting like they are owed something.

[RAcker]

BTW, all of this talking about the C's being too old to go 100% all season long does not explain why Rondo and Perkins mentally check out for long periods of time.  Or how about Sheed, I know he is old, but would it really hurt him to play hard for 20 minutes? 

This team simply does not have the focus it has had in the past, and that is frustrating and disappointing.  And I also find it disapointing that so many people want to make excuses for them. 

I am certainly not jumping off the tobin, and I have not been questioning their ability to win a championship this year.  I just think a championship caliber team should carry themselves this way.  Especially a team that opened up the season talking openly about having the best defense EVER, and shooting for 70 wins.  

And thank you for bringing up that 70 wins talk.

We as fans get accused of being unrealistic a lot by other fans, media and I'm sure players from time to time.  However, this was the team talking this way in camp.  We all had a right to expect great things, particularly after the good start to the season we had.

Yes, things like injuries can throw a wrench into the plans, but we surely have every right to be critical if we suspect that 100% effort is not being given and that this is the cause of some of the poor play.

[GreenFaith1819]

Celtics posters calling a team that is going to be at worst fourth in the east pathetic makes me chuckle.

How far we've come in being spoiled. 2 years ago we would have killed for a team that could win 35 games, now a team that wins less than 60 is "pathetic" and a "waste"

Celticsblog, where amazing happens 

They are certainly not the favroites in the east. But to call this team pathetic and a waste is only the other side of the coin from the posters who are seen as overly positive.

The celtics are a very good team with several flaws. They are most likely not good enough to win it all. They are still, however, going to end up winning 55 or so games and hosting a playoff series or two, depending on how Atlanta and orlando finsh down the stretch.

IF that's pathetic and a waste of time to watch....i shudder to think how posters like the OP will handle when we truly aren't a good team in 2-3 years.

I was less disgusted with the Pre-Big 3 team than I am now with this group of guys who feel they don't have to go out and give their all. That other team may not have been good, but they over-achieved. This team's effort IS a joke other than a couple guys. I think that Ray gives it his all. I think that KG gives his all. (unfortunately that isn't what it used to be) I think Scal gives his all in limited minutes. Perk usually does, however that has been slipping. There is nothing wrong in expecting multi-millionaires to give their all each game rather than acting like they are owed something.

EJPLAYA, Good Point..but do you think that with this current group and their advancing age maybe it is best for them to Not give it their all, at least until the playoffs?

Man I know that that is a bitter pill to swallow, even for me..but when/if this team can bring home Banner 18 in June of this year it will be well worth it.

Anyone can debate me if they see differently, but maybe this team truly is mailing it in until the Playoffs...I can accept this as long as it produces a Banner this year - and minimizes injuries due to giving all-out-effort too early.

San Antonio Spurs, anyone?

[GreenFaith1819]

BTW, all of this talking about the C's being too old to go 100% all season long does not explain why Rondo and Perkins mentally check out for long periods of time.  Or how about Sheed, I know he is old, but would it really hurt him to play hard for 20 minutes? 

This team simply does not have the focus it has had in the past, and that is frustrating and disappointing.  And I also find it disapointing that so many people want to make excuses for them. 

I am certainly not jumping off the tobin, and I have not been questioning their ability to win a championship this year.  I just think a championship caliber team should carry themselves this way.  Especially a team that opened up the season talking openly about having the best defense EVER, and shooting for 70 wins. 

Chris - Good Point. I haven't read entire thread yet. I agree my last two posts certainly can't explain away Rondo and Perk.

[JHTruth]

I think a little slowdown in play was inevitable. The Celts have won more games than any other franchise in the league over the last few seasons. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me. They just don't bring it every night like it's Game 7 as we have been accustomed to in the past. They certainly don't deserve to be called "pathetic" and piled on by all their fans along with the media after winning as much as they have. It's not like they're going into the lottery. They're fighting for the 2 seed in the East. No one respects anything anymore..

[Chris]

I think a little slowdown in play was inevitable. The Celts have won more games than any other franchise in the league over the last few seasons. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me. They just don't bring it every night like it's Game 7 as we have been accustomed to in the past. They certainly don't deserve to be called "pathetic" and piled on by all their fans along with the media after winning as much as they have. It's not like they're going into the lottery. They're fighting for the 2 seed in the East. No one respects anything anymore..

If they want respect, they can earn it by playing up to their potential.  They have made it clear that all that matters to them is the playoffs.  And that is fine.  But that means that they will be disappointing a lot of fans during the regular season, and will in turn lose some of the respect that had built up in the past.  If they win in the playoffs, its all good again.  But for right now, they get as much respect as they earn...and they have earned significantly less than they did in 2008.

[JHTruth]

I think a little slowdown in play was inevitable. The Celts have won more games than any other franchise in the league over the last few seasons. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me. They just don't bring it every night like it's Game 7 as we have been accustomed to in the past. They certainly don't deserve to be called "pathetic" and piled on by all their fans along with the media after winning as much as they have. It's not like they're going into the lottery. They're fighting for the 2 seed in the East. No one respects anything anymore..

If they want respect, they can earn it by playing up to their potential.  They have made it clear that all that matters to them is the playoffs.  And that is fine.  But that means that they will be disappointing a lot of fans during the regular season, and will in turn lose some of the respect that had built up in the past.  If they win in the playoffs, its all good again.  But for right now, they get as much respect as they earn...and they have earned significantly less than they did in 2008.

Man the standards you guys hold this squad to to even give them a little respect are ridiculous. They will win somewhere in the range of 55-60 games again this year after winning 60+ the last two years. Does anyone have any idea how difficult it is in the NBA to have two consecutive 60+ win seasons, let alone three? How rare that is? Dealing with the injuries they've had? I'm not trying to make excuses but just pointing out that aside from a few awful losses, this team is going to have another great regular season. And to hear people around here, it's like we're headed for 24 wins...

[BballTim]

This team simply does not have the focus it has had in the past, and that is frustrating and disappointing.  And I also find it disapointing that so many people want to make excuses for them. 

  I don't think it's so much making excuses as having different expectations. I think that the team showed, before Paul's knee, that they were as good as anyone else, good enough to win the title. I also think that Rondo's made some strides since then. I've seen the same uneven play you have since Xmas but I think that the fact that they've had KG and/or Paul either out of the lineup or playing hurt or getting back into the flow since then has affected their cohesiveness and they've lost their momentum. They have plenty of time to get it back. If everyone's healthy and they don't start to jell I'll be less optimistic but again I don't think that I've seen anything too concerning.

[cdif911]

this thread is still alive?