Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird

[dark_lord]

lbj is so dynamic of a player, it is stupid to compare him to anyone.  let him be lbj instead of trying to compare him to anyone.

the guy is unbelievably gifted...even if he is a DB

[TitleMaster]

Sorry, no comparison.

If Dr Frankenstein were around and we did a simple experiment... we put Bird's brain (no, not bird brain) into LBJ's body and vice versa, what would happen?

Here's what, LBJ (in Bird's body) would be slow, not able to beat his man off the dribble; he'll instead, need to come off screens, and be a normal jump shooter type of player. In other words, his true abilities are clearly earmarked by his athletic frame, otherwise, he's a normal above average to excellent player, at this point in time. He'd still be a good passer and a good teammate but we won't be hearing about him in the press.

Bird (in LBJ's body) would be a basketball terror. Yes, he'd be Frankenstein's monster, not a normal player. In other words, given the various crews of the Cavs, Bird could do any number of moves:

1) Drive, draw contact, hit 2 free throws (90% FT). He can do this all the time, without changing game plans.

2) Beat any opponent off the dribble, including Michael Cooper and Moncrief, the best perimeter defenders in the league. Today's defenders have nothing on him.

3) See 2), thus every possession will force a double team and Bird/LBJ will find the open man w/o needing to see him in transition, thus will be impossible to predict for the opposing teams' coaching staff. Any particular Cav will be open at any given point in time.

4) Finally, if opponents tightly guard the interior and prevent all penetrations, with a Mason-like vise, Bird/LBJ will back out onto the three pt line and drill 'em w/o contest. He can do this even if the rest of the Cavs are cold.

Thus, we're looking at a player who can average ~35 ppg, ~15 rpg, ~8 apg, ~4 spg, when he gets his team involved.

If he goes it solo: ~50 ppg, ~18 rpg, ~2 apg, ~4 spg. Yes, he could nearly singlehandedly win a title by himself.

[Andy Jick]

this is an exercise in futility...

you cannot compare players of different generations, no matter what the sport.

it's fun to speculate, but in the end you'll end up right where you started...

[shiggins]

Sorry, no comparison.

If Dr Frankenstein were around and we did a simple experiment... we put Bird's brain (no, not bird brain) into LBJ's body and vice versa, what would happen?

Here's what, LBJ (in Bird's body) would be slow, not able to beat his man off the dribble; he'll instead, need to come off screens, and be a normal jump shooter type of player. In other words, his true abilities are clearly earmarked by his athletic frame, otherwise, he's a normal above average to excellent player, at this point in time. He'd still be a good passer and a good teammate but we won't be hearing about him in the press.

Bird (in LBJ's body) would be a basketball terror. Yes, he'd be Frankenstein's monster, not a normal player. In other words, given the various crews of the Cavs, Bird could do any number of moves:

1) Drive, draw contact, hit 2 free throws (90% FT). He can do this all the time, without changing game plans.

2) Beat any opponent off the dribble, including Michael Cooper and Moncrief, the best perimeter defenders in the league. Today's defenders have nothing on him.

3) See 2), thus every possession will force a double team and Bird/LBJ will find the open man w/o needing to see him in transition, thus will be impossible to predict for the opposing teams' coaching staff. Any particular Cav will be open at any given point in time.

4) Finally, if opponents tightly guard the interior and prevent all penetrations, with a Mason-like vise, Bird/LBJ will back out onto the three pt line and drill 'em w/o contest. He can do this even if the rest of the Cavs are cold.

Thus, we're looking at a player who can average ~35 ppg, ~15 rpg, ~8 apg, ~4 spg, when he gets his team involved.

If he goes it solo: ~50 ppg, ~18 rpg, ~2 apg, ~4 spg. Yes, he could nearly singlehandedly win a title by himself.

Put Larry's brain in Shaq's body...

[Roy Hobbs]

has the ball most of the time like Magic.  Bird touched the ball a lot on offense but wasn't the one bringing it up or initiating plays unlike Lebron and Magic.

Yeah, I agree.  The whole "Bird had better teammates" doesn't really work in terms of assist numbers, as Lebron had the ball in his hands more than Larry.

The stats for Lebron are excellent, though.  There are very few players to ever put up the combination of points, rebounds, and assists he can.  Michael, Larry, Magic, and Oscar.  Does anybody else belong on that list?  Jason Kidd is close (statistically) but never was the elite scorer those others were.

[Roy Hobbs]

it's fun to speculate, but in the end you'll end up right where you started...

That sounds like just about everything else we do on here.

[TitleMaster]

Put Larry's brain in Shaq's body...

That would be like a steroidal Chamberlain, dropping 50-60 points on Russell, in the paint or outside of it. Sorry, no Russell dynasty with that freak on anyone else's team. And in this case, it wouldn't need to be Philly or the Lakers.

Quite literally, the opponent would need to score on every possession to beat him.

[guava_wrench]

I think alot of what I feel has been coverred but basically:

LeBron handles the ball way more than Bird so he has more chances to pile up assists. Bird had soem of the best court vision that I have ever seen. He saw passes no one else saw on a nightly basis.

Lebron has above average vision and good passing skills but he is not quite Bird there.

Comparing him to Magic is probably more accurate except Magic handled the ball like LeBron but had court vision like Bird. Magic to me is the best passer ever and he happened to be 6-9.

I think you are underestimating Lebron's court vision. When he came into the NBA, wasn't they hype around him focused on 2 traits: (1) NBA ready body, (2) insane court vision?

[Fan from VT]

Sorry, no comparison.

If Dr Frankenstein were around and we did a simple experiment... we put Bird's brain (no, not bird brain) into LBJ's body and vice versa, what would happen?

Here's what, LBJ (in Bird's body) would be slow, not able to beat his man off the dribble; he'll instead, need to come off screens, and be a normal jump shooter type of player. In other words, his true abilities are clearly earmarked by his athletic frame, otherwise, he's a normal above average to excellent player, at this point in time. He'd still be a good passer and a good teammate but we won't be hearing about him in the press.

Bird (in LBJ's body) would be a basketball terror. Yes, he'd be Frankenstein's monster, not a normal player. In other words, given the various crews of the Cavs, Bird could do any number of moves:

1) Drive, draw contact, hit 2 free throws (90% FT). He can do this all the time, without changing game plans.

2) Beat any opponent off the dribble, including Michael Cooper and Moncrief, the best perimeter defenders in the league. Today's defenders have nothing on him.

3) See 2), thus every possession will force a double team and Bird/LBJ will find the open man w/o needing to see him in transition, thus will be impossible to predict for the opposing teams' coaching staff. Any particular Cav will be open at any given point in time.

4) Finally, if opponents tightly guard the interior and prevent all penetrations, with a Mason-like vise, Bird/LBJ will back out onto the three pt line and drill 'em w/o contest. He can do this even if the rest of the Cavs are cold.

Thus, we're looking at a player who can average ~35 ppg, ~15 rpg, ~8 apg, ~4 spg, when he gets his team involved.

If he goes it solo: ~50 ppg, ~18 rpg, ~2 apg, ~4 spg. Yes, he could nearly singlehandedly win a title by himself.

I think you are vastly underrating Lebron's "Bball IQ" and vastly underrating Bird's athleticism.

[indeedproceed]

Sorry, no comparison.

If Dr Frankenstein were around and we did a simple experiment... we put Bird's brain (no, not bird brain) into LBJ's body and vice versa, what would happen?

Here's what, LBJ (in Bird's body) would be slow, not able to beat his man off the dribble; he'll instead, need to come off screens, and be a normal jump shooter type of player. In other words, his true abilities are clearly earmarked by his athletic frame, otherwise, he's a normal above average to excellent player, at this point in time. He'd still be a good passer and a good teammate but we won't be hearing about him in the press.

Bird (in LBJ's body) would be a basketball terror. Yes, he'd be Frankenstein's monster, not a normal player. In other words, given the various crews of the Cavs, Bird could do any number of moves:

1) Drive, draw contact, hit 2 free throws (90% FT). He can do this all the time, without changing game plans.

2) Beat any opponent off the dribble, including Michael Cooper and Moncrief, the best perimeter defenders in the league. Today's defenders have nothing on him.

3) See 2), thus every possession will force a double team and Bird/LBJ will find the open man w/o needing to see him in transition, thus will be impossible to predict for the opposing teams' coaching staff. Any particular Cav will be open at any given point in time.

4) Finally, if opponents tightly guard the interior and prevent all penetrations, with a Mason-like vise, Bird/LBJ will back out onto the three pt line and drill 'em w/o contest. He can do this even if the rest of the Cavs are cold.

Thus, we're looking at a player who can average ~35 ppg, ~15 rpg, ~8 apg, ~4 spg, when he gets his team involved.

If he goes it solo: ~50 ppg, ~18 rpg, ~2 apg, ~4 spg. Yes, he could nearly singlehandedly win a title by himself.

I think you are vastly underrating Lebron's "Bball IQ" and vastly underrating Bird's athleticism.

I completely agree with FFVT

[LB3533]

I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

[Greenbean]

I think alot of what I feel has been coverred but basically:

LeBron handles the ball way more than Bird so he has more chances to pile up assists. Bird had soem of the best court vision that I have ever seen. He saw passes no one else saw on a nightly basis.

Lebron has above average vision and good passing skills but he is not quite Bird there.

Comparing him to Magic is probably more accurate except Magic handled the ball like LeBron but had court vision like Bird. Magic to me is the best passer ever and he happened to be 6-9.

I think you are underestimating Lebron's court vision. When he came into the NBA, wasn't they hype around him focused on 2 traits: (1) NBA ready body, (2) insane court vision?

Yes that was the hype and I said he had above average court vision. He is probably top 5 in the NBA in that un quantifiable skill. However Bird and Magic to me are head and shoulders above most players in history in that category. LeBron is great though I dont underestimate him. He is 1 step ahead of everyone else on the court while Larry and Magic were 2 steps ahead.

[wdleehi]

I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

Having the ball in your hand always has the effect of increasing assist.  


If the ball is in your hand the majority of the time, the few times you do pass, chances are it is late in the shot clock raising the chances of a shot being fired.  


Look at AI's assists.  He rarely had great offensive players around him, he was a gunner and only looked to pass when he was in a spot that he couldn't even throw up a bad shot.


Yet he has an above average assist numbers.  

That's because when he did pass, his teammates usually didn't have enough time other then to put up a shot.


AI will never be confused for a good passing PG.  

[Greenbean]

I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

It's not time in his hands. It's the fact that the offense starts with and runs through LeBron. The offense didnt necessarily start with Larry.

I think you are confusing dominating the ball ala Allen Iverson looking to shoot first with LeBron dominating the ball and looking to shoot 1a and pass 1b.

Also, did you just say if LeBron had better teammates he would average 60 and 19?

[Greenbean]

I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

Having the ball in your hand always has the effect of increasing assist.  


If the ball is in your hand the majority of the time, the few times you do pass, chances are it is late in the shot clock raising the chances of a shot being fired.  


Look at AI's assists.  He rarely had great offensive players around him, he was a gunner and only looked to pass when he was in a spot that he couldn't even throw up a bad shot.


Yet he has an above average assist numbers.  

That's because when he did pass, his teammates usually didn't have enough time other then to put up a shot.


AI will never be confused for a good passing PG.  

Holy crap get out of my head!!!! TP.