Blow it all up

[moiso]

We can do all the tweaking we want.  If KG's knee doesn't somehow drastically improve, it's not going to matter.  If they think KG can return to earlier season form, then Iguadala could improve our defense/energy/aggresiveness/and toughness enough to maybe compete this year.  If this is as good as KG is going to get, the whole thing should be blown up.

[celticinorlando]

i dont think KG's knee will get much better this season...or ever.

[Birdbrain]

Well, if you want guys who fill lanes, you have to start by benching Pierce until he can run again.

As for Joe Johnson, you can't pick him up unless you are under the cap or if you have assets that Atlanta wants in a sign and trade.  We do have an asset they would want: Rondo.  Are you willing to give him up for Joe Johnson?

Pierce is fine playing SF with AI playing the 2 in regards to this discussion.  He can't get up and down the court like he used to but he provides other things to the team that Ray can't.  If Ray isn't making a wide open 3 he's useless.  And to be honest his defense has been worse which I think will be the biggest addition we would get with the Philly trade.

[Brickowski]

Ray isn't useless without the treys, although his play has definitely declined this year. He has a nice midrange game, and his defense has been ok-- not great, but ok.

[Birdbrain]

Ray isn't useless without the treys, although his play has definitely declined this year. He has a nice midrange game, and his defense has been ok-- not great, but ok.

He's only 'ok' when he's able to stay on his feet.  He's been horrible most of the time and he can't penetrate due to diminished skills leading to TOs and falling down.  Sorry I respect the guy but, if he was on his last legs that would be better than his current state.

[Brickowski]

Pierce's game has deteriorated even more than Ray's. Pierce was slowing down and settling for outside shots long before his knee infection.

[Fafnir]

Pierce's game has deteriorated even more than Ray's. Pierce was slowing down and settling for outside shots long before his knee infection.

His driving to the rim has, he can't elevate right now on that leg.

But his 3-pt shooting is making him as effective as he was last year.

[celticinorlando]

Pierce's game has deteriorated even more than Ray's. Pierce was slowing down and settling for outside shots long before his knee infection.

i have really noticed this also..looks a step slow

[Jon Niednagel]

Well, if you want guys who fill lanes, you have to start by benching Pierce until he can run again.

As for Joe Johnson, you can't pick him up unless you are under the cap or if you have assets that Atlanta wants in a sign and trade.  We do have an asset they would want: Rondo.  Are you willing to give him up for Joe Johnson?

Brick,
I'm not sure if the JJ comment was directed toward my post or someone else, but to answer the question, I would not want to trade Rondo for JJ  because I think the best idea is to pair the two players. In my trade proposal, I think the C's get sufficiently under the cap to offer JJ a max, or at least near max contract such that if rumors of him wanting to get out of the ATL are true he could join a very good situation with the C's. The C's would have Rondo, Ariza, KG, and Perk on the books this summer if they trade PP, Sheed, and Baby for T-Mac and Ariza, let everyone expire, and decline to pick up Walker. That leaves roughly 39 million or so on the books. The cap is a little over 59 million this year. Say it drops 3 million next year to 56 million, which leaves roughly 17 million for a free agent max contract (enough for someone like JJ). Then, the C’s still have bird rights on Ray, Tony, Eddie, and T-Mac, two picks, and a mid-level exception to round out the roster. There might be something I'm misunderstanding, but I think obtaining JJ is possible under this scenario. This would also leave the Celtics with total yearly salary that is much less than it is now with all players except Perk locked-up for several years. Like I said before, trading Paul is unthinkable; however, if the window is closed, trading him is the quickest way back into contention.

[Brickowski]

No, taking it to the rack is always more effective than outside shooting.  It gets the other team into foul trouble.
But the days of Pierce shooting 10 free throws a game are long gone. He's playing rocking chair basketball now.

[Kuberski33]

I disagree on the need to blow this up without attempting to fix it.  However, the point made about older players getting hurt is spot on.  That's one of the problems with older guys, they break down much more frequently.

Especially when Doc plays them too much.....

[moiso]

No, taking it to the rack is always more effective than outside shooting.  It gets the other team into foul trouble.
But the days of Pierce shooting 10 free throws a game are long gone. He's playing rocking chair basketball now.

Gotta agree with this.  Earlier this year Pierce had a number of nice dunks that made it appear that he had turned back the clock a bit, but his first step was still not what it used to be.  Attacking the rim is the best way to control the flow and put pressure on the defense.  Outside shooting seems like a last resort.

[BballTim]

No, taking it to the rack is always more effective than outside shooting.  It gets the other team into foul trouble.
But the days of Pierce shooting 10 free throws a game are long gone. He's playing rocking chair basketball now.

  The days of Pierce shooting 10 free throws a game were over long before we won the title. Paul's taking the same number of inside shots and getting the same number of foul shots a game as he was in 07-08. If you consider the fact that he's taking fewer shots overall he's probably taking it to the rim a higher percentage of the time than he did 2 years ago. He's also hitting about the same percentage of those inside shots as he did 2 years ago.

[Kuberski33]

I think it would be wrong to assume that Pierce won't be healthy again. And I think he's definitely settling more due to his health.  But I think he still has plenty left in the tank.  KG on the other hand.....

[Moranis]

Well, if you want guys who fill lanes, you have to start by benching Pierce until he can run again.

As for Joe Johnson, you can't pick him up unless you are under the cap or if you have assets that Atlanta wants in a sign and trade.  We do have an asset they would want: Rondo.  Are you willing to give him up for Joe Johnson?

Brick,
I'm not sure if the JJ comment was directed toward my post or someone else, but to answer the question, I would not want to trade Rondo for JJ  because I think the best idea is to pair the two players. In my trade proposal, I think the C's get sufficiently under the cap to offer JJ a max, or at least near max contract such that if rumors of him wanting to get out of the ATL are true he could join a very good situation with the C's. The C's would have Rondo, Ariza, KG, and Perk on the books this summer if they trade PP, Sheed, and Baby for T-Mac and Ariza, let everyone expire, and decline to pick up Walker. That leaves roughly 39 million or so on the books. The cap is a little over 59 million this year. Say it drops 3 million next year to 56 million, which leaves roughly 17 million for a free agent max contract (enough for someone like JJ). Then, the C’s still have bird rights on Ray, Tony, Eddie, and T-Mac, two picks, and a mid-level exception to round out the roster. There might be something I'm misunderstanding, but I think obtaining JJ is possible under this scenario. This would also leave the Celtics with total yearly salary that is much less than it is now with all players except Perk locked-up for several years. Like I said before, trading Paul is unthinkable; however, if the window is closed, trading him is the quickest way back into contention.

the C's would have to renounce their free agents to be under the cap.  If they renounce them, they don't have bird rights.