Chris Sheridan's Trading Ray Allen Article from ESPN

[rondohondo]

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100131/daily-dime

For all the chatter about Amare Stoudemire and Tracy McGrady (with his $22.4 million expiring contract) being the most desirable pieces out there, if Allen goes on the block, it could be a game-changer leaguewide.

Would both teams be happy with a trade (and we're merely speculating here) that sent Allen and a minor player to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James (a 3-for-2 would work, because Boston has left a roster spot open since Lester Hudson was claimed off waivers by Memphis)? Or for Hinrich and Brad Miller?

Either of those deals would clear $9 million off the Bulls' cap for next summer, when they'll be going after a max free agent, and would allow Chicago to remain a viable playoff contender with a shooter who can provide what Hinrich and John Salmons haven't. The Celtics would get another guard who can't quite shoot as well (Hinrich is making only 38 percent of his shots while Allen is at 45 percent) but would gain a far more capable ballhandler and defender.

Moreover, if the Celtics could get a shot-blocker and rebounder like Thomas, it could go a long way toward getting them out of the NBA cellar in offensive boards (where they rank 30th) and restore some of their customary defensive prowess.

"We haven't had timely stops -- that's what bothers me most. Today, and against Atlanta and Orlando, they scored every time they needed to," Boston coach Doc Rivers said.

Sunday's game illustrated what Celtics fans have been seeing over the course of the past month: This Boston team is nowhere near as good as the '07-08 title team, and nowhere near as feared as the '08-09 Celtics team was before Garnett went down for the season with a knee injury.

If the time has come for a shakeup to boost Boston back into the NBA's upper echelon, the Celtics' most moveable player is the very same player who missed the last shot Sunday against the Lakers.

And if they happen to move him a few days before trade deadline day, Feb. 18, they can begin a new push to the finish line with fresher faces and younger legs beginning that night against these very same Lakers at the Staples Center.

I would personally love if there was a way we could acquire Ty Thoms. He would be a great spark off the bench and would fit right in with the defense as would Hinrich . Hinrich may not be the shooter that Ray is( or once was), but at this point he does just about everything else better. He is a better defender, can create shots for others, would really help the 2nd unit's offense .

I dont know if a soon to be 35 yr old Ray playing close to 40 mins every night is ever going to get his legs back which means his shot is going to suffer. Ty Thomas and Hinrich would be a pretty good return for a 35 year old SG no matter how good he once was. Maybe we throw in our late 1st rd pick this year to get the deal done?

[connerhenry43]

i would not touch brad miller, too old. we need some youth on this team, not older slower veterans.

iggy would be who i would want, but heinrich would be fine by me. he was a pain in the butt last year in the playoffs. seems to have really thrived as a off guard for CHI. would love to have him on our side.

[rondohondo]

i would not touch brad miller, too old. we need some youth on this team, not older slower veterans.

iggy would be who i would want, but heinrich would be fine by me. he was a pain in the butt last year in the playoffs. seems to have really thrived as a off guard for CHI. would love to have him on our side.

yea I wouldn't want that punk Miller either, we already have a backup center who jacks up 3's all day long. Ty Thomas would be the guy I want.

[moiso]

Yeah, Jerome James!  Awesome!  While I think Thomas is a moron, I have to admit he would be a big help at this point.  And I love the spark and toughness Hinrich provides.  He's a tough guy winner, with somewhat of a Posey mentality as far as giving up his body.

[droopdog7]

I think we would need a two guard with size coming back in any Ray Allen deal.  Either that or a true SF, assuming PP can slide to the two guard.  Just don't want a smallish players trying to match up against the good teams.

[RAcker]

Remind me what Hinrich's contract would do to us down the road?

[Chief]

I'd do this trade in a minute.

[rondohondo]

Remind me what Hinrich's contract would do to us down the road?

Hinrich has 2 years after this year left at 9 mil and 8 mil so he would be expiring along with KG and Sheed giving us a ton of cap space in 2012.

[droopdog7]

Remind me what Hinrich's contract would do to us down the road?

Hinrich has 2 years after this year left at 9 mil and 8 mil so he would be expiring along with KG and Sheed giving us a ton of cap space in 2012.

At this point, we may have to sell out for this year OR break it up and start planning for the future.  It will not be easy to do both as teams just aren't going to give us salary friendly players that can play.  Just no reason to do it.

As for me, I am thinking we need to give it one more shot and the heck with two and three years down the line (as we likely will not be a true contender anyway).

That said, I still would rather trade our scraps for a decent player (with a bad contract of course) than trade Ray.  There is just not telling what a trade of that magnitude will do to this team this year.

[Chris]

I think we would need a two guard with size coming back in any Ray Allen deal.  Either that or a true SF, assuming PP can slide to the two guard.  Just don't want a smallish players trying to match up against the good teams.

I don't think size is the problem with Hinrich.  Hinrich is a very good defender, and can cover bigger guys very well.  The problem is offensively, he is not suited to be a real scorer, and that is what they need from that spot.  It would put a lot more pressure on Pierce and Rondo to score, if they had to rely on Hinrich as the starting SG. 

I think it would be worth it if they could get Thomas back as well, but they would then be better off looking for a more pure scorer/shooter to take the starting SG spot, allowing Hinrich to come off the bench.

[rondohondo]

I think we would need a two guard with size coming back in any Ray Allen deal.  Either that or a true SF, assuming PP can slide to the two guard.  Just don't want a smallish players trying to match up against the good teams.

I don't think size is the problem with Hinrich.  Hinrich is a very good defender, and can cover bigger guys very well.  The problem is offensively, he is not suited to be a real scorer, and that is what they need from that spot.  It would put a lot more pressure on Pierce and Rondo to score, if they had to rely on Hinrich as the starting SG. 

I think it would be worth it if they could get Thomas back as well, but they would then be better off looking for a more pure scorer/shooter to take the starting SG spot, allowing Hinrich to come off the bench.

I don't know , I think Hinrich could fit in with the starting 5 on offense. He is a career 38% 3pt shooter so he would still give us the ability to spread the floor. It would also give us 2 PG's on the floor at times with Rondo and Hinrich being able to create shots for others with their ball handling and passing ability. Add that to his ability to be a much better man on man defender and I don't think there would be that much difference at all, plus he can run the 2nd unit at times along with Daniels.

[droopdog7]

I think we would need a two guard with size coming back in any Ray Allen deal.  Either that or a true SF, assuming PP can slide to the two guard.  Just don't want a smallish players trying to match up against the good teams.

I don't think size is the problem with Hinrich.  Hinrich is a very good defender, and can cover bigger guys very well.  The problem is offensively, he is not suited to be a real scorer, and that is what they need from that spot.  It would put a lot more pressure on Pierce and Rondo to score, if they had to rely on Hinrich as the starting SG. 

I think it would be worth it if they could get Thomas back as well, but they would then be better off looking for a more pure scorer/shooter to take the starting SG spot, allowing Hinrich to come off the bench.

On the whole, I think the "completely made up" deal with Chicago would be one to seriously consider.  And I understand your point about Heinrich being able to guard taller players in stretches.  Afterall, we have seen him do it against PP.  That said, I just don't know how he would match up against as a starting two guard over a whole game (or an entire playoffs).  And yes, I too would want Heinrich as a back up PG much more than a starting two guard.

[angryguy77]

This is a trade I would do in a second. The positives have been said already so I'm not going to restate them, but this would give a needed boost to this team.

[Chris]

I think we would need a two guard with size coming back in any Ray Allen deal.  Either that or a true SF, assuming PP can slide to the two guard.  Just don't want a smallish players trying to match up against the good teams.

I don't think size is the problem with Hinrich.  Hinrich is a very good defender, and can cover bigger guys very well.  The problem is offensively, he is not suited to be a real scorer, and that is what they need from that spot.  It would put a lot more pressure on Pierce and Rondo to score, if they had to rely on Hinrich as the starting SG. 

I think it would be worth it if they could get Thomas back as well, but they would then be better off looking for a more pure scorer/shooter to take the starting SG spot, allowing Hinrich to come off the bench.

I don't know , I think Hinrich could fit in with the starting 5 on offense. He is a career 38% 3pt shooter so he would still give us the ability to spread the floor. It would also give us 2 PG's on the floor at times with Rondo and Hinrich being able to create shots for others with their ball handling and passing ability. Add that to his ability to be a much better man on man defender and I don't think there would be that much difference at all, plus he can run the 2nd unit at times along with Daniels.

Well, it depends if the C's are willing to adjust their offensive system.  Perhaps it would be a good thing to have a SG who they are not relying on as much.  Right now, their offense relies on Ray (and House) running off screens and launching shots.  That is not Hinrich's game.  While he is a decent shooter, he is not a primary scorer type.

So if the C's are willing to change their offense, to have more overall movement, and if Rondo can take a bigger role as a scorer, than it could be OK. 

But I really think Hinrich is at his best when he is allowed to be a distributor, who takes the occasional, wide open shot, and then locks down on defense.  To have him in a different role, you will decrease his effectiveness and value.

[moiso]

Whoever we trade for and whatever position it is, I just hope the guy is an instigator, as Ainge likes to say.  Someone with some toughness that forces the action, provides energy, and makes things happen.  We definitely don't need someone else to just go with the flow.