Bored oversized trade idea with Bos, DC and Chi

[wdleehi]

DC wants to move Butler.  Lets give them a player that can help them still win.



Boston trades Ray, JR, TA and this years 1st

    Receive Butler, Hinrich and DC's Trade Exception

DC trades Butler, James and a Trade Exception

    Receives Ray and JR

Chicago trades Hinrich

    Receives TA, James and Bos 1st


Boston upgrades the roster with both Butler and Hinrich.  Butler goes to the starting lineup and Hinrich becomes the larger PG for the 2nd team that will work well with House

DC gets to see if Ray works with Gilbert and Jamison and try and make a run to the playoffs

Chicago drops half a million in salary this season, 9.5+ million next season.  They pick up and extra draft pick.  And who knows, TA could impress as a starter next to Rose on a lotto team. 


(just checked, the trade works without the JR trade exception part.  That was thrown in there when I was just doing the Bos/DC part and didn't want to waive anyone)

[Bahku]

I'd go along with this if it didn't involve Ray ... I personally disagree with any exchange that includes getting rid of one of the greatest three-point, free-throw and jump-shooters of all time. Ray has plenty left in the tank, as he's shown with his strong drives to the basket this year, and he's a core member of this team. The last thing we need is to upset the chemistry that the starting five have developed, and give away such an incredibly potent outside threat.

[Chris]

I like it for all teams.  I hate to give up Ray, but if you are getting back Hinrich and Butler, you are making your team better.  The tough part would be the money for the C's.  Do they want to have $20 million tied up in two PG's over the next couple of years?  

[wdleehi]

Those are my two sticking points as well.

1) Giving up Ray. 

2) Hinrich's contract



Still, I think this trade does improve the Celtics this year and into the future. 

[housecall]

As much as i like Butler's ga.i wouldn't trade Ray for him...also,how is Hindrich an upgrade for the C's?

[wdleehi]

As much as i like Butler's ga.i wouldn't trade Ray for him...also,how is Hindrich an upgrade for the C's?

Hinrich is better then any other guard off the Celtics bench.  He is a PG that can defend SGs (thus allowing House to be a SG that defends PGs)

He has shown in the past to be a quality starting PG on decent to good NBA teams.  Therefor, if Rondo was to be hurt, the Celtics have a PG that can step in and play. 

[Change]

Why would Ainge trade The greatest shooter in the history of the NBA? He's giving us 16.2ppg in a limited role. Cleveland would die to have Ray on their Roster. And I'm sure he'll give a hometown discount next year, so we can continue to remain contenders for years to come. Caron Butler would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of Ray Allen.

[wdleehi]

Why would Ainge trade The greatest shooter in the history of the NBA? He's giving us 16.2ppg in a limited role. Cleveland would die to have Ray on their Roster. And I'm sure he'll give a hometown discount next year, so we can continue to remain contenders for years to come.

1) makes the team better now.
2) we have no idea if Ray will be resigned.  I am sure they want to, but what if a team that misses out on a big FA decides to offer him a long term max contract?  Do you really see the Celtics matching?

[housecall]

As much as i like Butler's ga.i wouldn't trade Ray for him...also,how is Hindrich an upgrade for the C's?

Hinrich is better then any other guard off the Celtics bench.  He is a PG that can defend SGs (thus allowing House to be a SG that defends PGs)

He has shown in the past to be a quality starting PG on decent to good NBA teams.  Therefor, if Rondo was to be hurt, the Celtics have a PG that can step in and play. 

After carefully thinking it over i buy the Hinrich move but there has to be another way to acquire him without including Ray for Butler...Personally,i feel Butler is almost like duplicating Pierce and Ray shoots the long ball(3pt)when needed to help spread the floor.Butler is not a 3pt threat.And why would you include a 1st round pick for Hinrich?

[P2]

Still, I think this trade does improve the Celtics this year and into the future. 

Exactly.

After carefully thinking it over i buy the Hinrich move but there has to be another way to acquire him without including Ray for Butler...Personally,i feel Butler is almost like duplicating Pierce and Ray shoots the long ball(3pt)when needed to help spread the floor.Butler is not a 3pt threat.

In my honest opinion, Butler > Ray (this year), and Butler >> Ray (next year), etc.

[wdleehi]

Still, I think this trade does improve the Celtics this year and into the future. 

Exactly.

After carefully thinking it over i buy the Hinrich move but there has to be another way to acquire him without including Ray for Butler...Personally,i feel Butler is almost like duplicating Pierce and Ray shoots the long ball(3pt)when needed to help spread the floor.Butler is not a 3pt threat.

In my honest opinion, Butler > Ray (this year), and Butler >> Ray (next year), etc.

I think Butler and Ray are close enough in overall talent (though in different ways) to make this move.  Sure, losing Ray's shooting hurts, but the Celtics have Pierce who is really hot from the outside along with the addition on an above average outside shooter in Hinrich added. 

What Butler provides is a player that will draw more fouls and more FT for the team.  That will offset the lose of some threes.  Also, I think if he buys into the defense first the Celtics play, his athletic up grade and size upgrade, he could be a better defender then Ray. 


Again, not an easy move to make, but a move I think would improve the Celtics.

[housecall]

Still, I think this trade does improve the Celtics this year and into the future. 

Exactly.

After carefully thinking it over i buy the Hinrich move but there has to be another way to acquire him without including Ray for Butler...Personally,i feel Butler is almost like duplicating Pierce and Ray shoots the long ball(3pt)when needed to help spread the floor.Butler is not a 3pt threat.

In my honest opinion, Butler > Ray (this year), and Butler >> Ray (next year), etc.

I think Butler and Ray are close enough in overall talent (though in different ways) to make this move.  Sure, losing Ray's shooting hurts, but the Celtics have Pierce who is really hot from the outside along with the addition on an above average outside shooter in Hinrich added. 

What Butler provides is a player that will draw more fouls and more FT for the team.  That will offset the lose of some threes.  Also, I think if he buys into the defense first the Celtics play, his athletic up grade and size upgrade, he could be a better defender then Ray. 


Again, not an easy move to make, but a move I think would improve the Celtics.

Pierce "hot" 3pt shooting is a sample size of a handful of games..i don't think Doc is counting on him for 3's.Next,i can't ever remember when a starter(all star caliber)player from a recent championship team,that probably would have repeated if not for injuries been traded midstream of a season.Another thing Ray has already proven in the post season he plays as well as the regular season.Butler has had limited post season experience and the verdict is still out on his game being as good throughout one series after another.Also,suppose he doesn't buy into the Celtics defense as well as we expect him to?

[beantownboy171]

Any trade involving Ray, for me, must include some sort of *wink wink* buy-out clause that would bring Ray back to Boston, thus making any trade for Ray, highly unlikely. Even then I'd hate to see us lose bird rights on Ray.

[Vermont Green]

I  think the main upgrade in this is getting Hinrich to come off the bench which would be a nice addition.  The risk is assuming that Butler can match what Ray gives to the team both in terms of numbers and chemistry.  On paper, Butler appears to be a potential improvement when youth and production are compared but in reality, there is always a risk in taking away a working piece and adding someone new mid season.

I have always liked Butler's game but I don't make that big of a change to this team just for the chance to bring in Hinrich to come off the bench.  It definitely has the potential to be a good trade though.

[wdleehi]

I  think the main upgrade in this is getting Hinrich to come off the bench which would be a nice addition.  The risk is assuming that Butler can match what Ray gives to the team both in terms of numbers and chemistry.  On paper, Butler appears to be a potential improvement when youth and production are compared but in reality, there is always a risk in taking away a working piece and adding someone new mid season.

I have always liked Butler's game but I don't make that big of a change to this team just for the chance to bring in Hinrich to come off the bench.  It definitely has the potential to be a good trade though.

I just see it differently.  This is a chance for the Celtics to improve their team now while adding a younger fringe all-star in Butler going forward.  He is the offensive threat that Rondo and Perk will need around them after the three stars are gone.