Caron Butler available, would you like him on the Cs?

[Jeff]

not sure they would offer that, but maybe

I'd have to consider it - those are two good players, though I'm not convinced Jamison could learn defense

[Atzar]

It would take at least Ray Allen to get him...so are you interested in that?

Nope, Caron Butler isn't as a good as Ray. Not offensively, not defensively. A significant downgrade.

Defensively, you like Ray better?  Can't say I agree with that.  Ray is definitely a better offensive player, but I like Caron's defense quite a bit more.

[Fan from VT]

i don't like Pierce and Caron together on the wing that much. i like the balance between Ray/Pierce as a legit 2/3. Miller (if healthy) and Caron is intriguing, but would Caron come off the bench? I ask because miller/pierce would be much more close to the ray/pierce balance than butler/pierce.

Here's a thought (tweak with salaries as needed):

Ray to Washington

Kirilenko and miller to boston

Caron to utah

[Who]

It would take at least Ray Allen to get him...so are you interested in that?

Nope, Caron Butler isn't as a good as Ray. Not offensively, not defensively. A significant downgrade.

Defensively, you like Ray better?  Can't say I agree with that.  Ray is definitely a better offensive player, but I like Caron's defense quite a bit more.

I think Caron Butler is a poor-to-very poor defender (particularly his man-to-man D).

I'd rate Ray as a good + highly consistent defender.

[ssspence]

I doubt the Wizards give up Butler for cap space. He's too good a player + has too good a contract + is too young to sacrifice for cap space. Arenas or Jamison, yes, but Butler? That would be a very odd decision.

I fully believe that Caron Butler is available in the trade market but I think the Wizards will be looking for talent, not cap space, in a trade.

He'd be the easiest to trade for both. Say, a young talent and an expiring deal. Arenas and (to a lesser extent) Jamison will be tougher to move...

Sacrificing Butler in a salary dump doesn't get the Wizards anywhere ... they still have too many other contracts on the books.

They have what $43 million on the books + cap holds for empty roster spots (5) + a first round draft pick. So they'll have maybe $3-7 million in cap space depending on where the cap ends up. That's worth giving up Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, and the bird rights to Mike Miller + Randy Foye? To sign a player they could have gotten with their MLE? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Trading Caron Butler in a salary dump if other moves were already made or planned to be made ... that makes sense, that has value for Washington. But just a Caron Butler salary dump? By itself? Losing all that talent? For an MLEs worth of cap space? I don't get that.

That's a trade for the sakes of making a trade rather than give the club a way of improving itself.

------------------------------------------------

A trade that involves a young prospect + cap flexibility ... I would consider that a trade for talent assuming the prospect is the primary motivator for the deal (which is should be, otherwise I don't see the value).

I'm asuming this as part a larger movement to rebuild, so i think we're saying the same thing, basically.

Meanwhile, I would certainly not trade Ray for Butler and / or Miller.

[Who]

I doubt the Wizards give up Butler for cap space. He's too good a player + has too good a contract + is too young to sacrifice for cap space. Arenas or Jamison, yes, but Butler? That would be a very odd decision.

I fully believe that Caron Butler is available in the trade market but I think the Wizards will be looking for talent, not cap space, in a trade.

He'd be the easiest to trade for both. Say, a young talent and an expiring deal. Arenas and (to a lesser extent) Jamison will be tougher to move...

Sacrificing Butler in a salary dump doesn't get the Wizards anywhere ... they still have too many other contracts on the books.

They have what $43 million on the books + cap holds for empty roster spots (5) + a first round draft pick. So they'll have maybe $3-7 million in cap space depending on where the cap ends up. That's worth giving up Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, and the bird rights to Mike Miller + Randy Foye? To sign a player they could have gotten with their MLE? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Trading Caron Butler in a salary dump if other moves were already made or planned to be made ... that makes sense, that has value for Washington. But just a Caron Butler salary dump? By itself? Losing all that talent? For an MLEs worth of cap space? I don't get that.

That's a trade for the sakes of making a trade rather than give the club a way of improving itself.

------------------------------------------------

A trade that involves a young prospect + cap flexibility ... I would consider that a trade for talent assuming the prospect is the primary motivator for the deal (which is should be, otherwise I don't see the value).

I'm asuming this as part a larger movement to rebuild, so i think we're saying the same thing, basically.

Meanwhile, I would certainly not trade Ray for Butler and / or Miller.

I don't think it part of a larger process. If it were we'd be hearing a lot more noise about the Wizards trying to move Jamison and/or Arenas too. They're the difficult contracts to move. We'd be hearing that the Wizards are committed to a full rebuilding plan. That they're blowing up their roster. I haven't heard or read about any changes that radical. Changes, yes, but to not that large a degree.

It would be a good move if it was part of a larger idea and the Wizards actually pulled off the plan. I'd like to see the Wizards go in that direction.

[ssspence]

I doubt the Wizards give up Butler for cap space. He's too good a player + has too good a contract + is too young to sacrifice for cap space. Arenas or Jamison, yes, but Butler? That would be a very odd decision.

I fully believe that Caron Butler is available in the trade market but I think the Wizards will be looking for talent, not cap space, in a trade.

He'd be the easiest to trade for both. Say, a young talent and an expiring deal. Arenas and (to a lesser extent) Jamison will be tougher to move...

Sacrificing Butler in a salary dump doesn't get the Wizards anywhere ... they still have too many other contracts on the books.

They have what $43 million on the books + cap holds for empty roster spots (5) + a first round draft pick. So they'll have maybe $3-7 million in cap space depending on where the cap ends up. That's worth giving up Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, and the bird rights to Mike Miller + Randy Foye? To sign a player they could have gotten with their MLE? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Trading Caron Butler in a salary dump if other moves were already made or planned to be made ... that makes sense, that has value for Washington. But just a Caron Butler salary dump? By itself? Losing all that talent? For an MLEs worth of cap space? I don't get that.

That's a trade for the sakes of making a trade rather than give the club a way of improving itself.

------------------------------------------------

A trade that involves a young prospect + cap flexibility ... I would consider that a trade for talent assuming the prospect is the primary motivator for the deal (which is should be, otherwise I don't see the value).

I'm asuming this as part a larger movement to rebuild, so i think we're saying the same thing, basically.

Meanwhile, I would certainly not trade Ray for Butler and / or Miller.

I don't think it part of a larger process. If it were we'd be hearing a lot more noise about the Wizards trying to move Jamison and/or Arenas too. They're the difficult contracts to move. We'd be hearing that the Wizards are committed to a full rebuilding plan. That they're blowing up their roster. I haven't heard or read about any changes that radical. Changes, yes, but to not that large a degree.

It would be a good move if it was part of a larger idea and the Wizards actually pulled off the plan. I'd like to see the Wizards go in that direction.

As I said before, I don't think they've decided to move anyone yet. But if they do, they'll likely move more than one of Butler, Jamison and Arenas (tho the latter is essentially untradable).

I agree they should go there. I thought the trade for Foye and Miller was a major mistake.

[Who]

Would Gilbert Arenas be untradable? 21ppg + 7apg + 4rpg. That's a lot of production. I know he's been poor in other areas which have negated his positive contributions but that's an awful lot of production (21/7/4) to look beyond.

If Washington approached Cleveland and offered Arenas for Ilgauskas + Mo Williams? Or Ilgauskas + Delonte? Or Big Z and Gibson? Is that something that the Cavs turn down? Especially by the time it gets to February and Arenas has 45 games under his belt and has maintained that type of production. I think that would be difficult to turn down.

I think the Wizards will be able to trade Gilbert Arenas prior to the trading deadline. Not for talent (All-Star or near All-Star in terms of ability or potential) but for cap flexibility.

[ssspence]

Would Gilbert Arenas be untradable? 21ppg + 7apg + 4rpg. That's a lot of production. I know he's been poor in other areas which have negated his positive contributions but that's an awful lot of production (21/7/4) to look beyond.

If Washington approached Cleveland and offered Arenas for Ilgauskas + Mo Williams? Or Ilgauskas + Delonte? Or Big Z and Gibson? Is that something that the Cavs turn down? Especially by the time it gets to February and Arenas has 45 games under his belt and has maintained that type of production. I think that would be difficult to turn down.

I think the Wizards will be able to trade Gilbert Arenas prior to the trading deadline. Not for talent (All-Star or near All-Star in terms of ability or potential) but for cap flexibility.

I hear you, but when you consider his gigantic contract, his injury history and his ego, finding a trading partner will likely be very tough.

[Brickowski]

I wouldn't want to be the GM of the Wizards right now.  The only good news is that they will be getting a lottery pick in June.

Actually, their most tradeable asset is Brendan Haywood, not Butler, Arenas or Jamison.

[indeedproceed]

Barbosa/Dudley for Butler. Get it done Kerr.

[RAcker]

Am I the only one that just doesn't like Caron all that much?

[GreenFaith1819]

I just think we'd have to give up a core player for Caron, which wouldn't be a good thing right now, IMO. We are playing too well together right now.

And if we could get Caron without trading a core player, would he be willing to come off of bench? And could he fit in? I like his game, but IMO any trade excluding a core player would have to include Glen, and I like Glen on the C's too much.

Just my take.

[Cman]

Yes.
BUt we would have to give up too much.

[Neurotic Guy]

How old is Caron?  Is he young enough where he could be a part of re building with Rondo and perk after the big three era??  If so, sounds like a good chance to work toward the future.

I am not a big fan of building for the future when you've got a contender. In the NFL you can build simultaneously, but not really in the NBA unless you have a young superstar who is both the present and the future.  I know Rondo is a unique player, but I don't see him winning championships without a top flight superstar alongside.  It's back to the great player argument -- look at the other contenders -- Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dwight Howard. This is the level of player we'll need post-KG. It's very hard to win with an ensemble cast like the Pistons did a few years back.  The C's are contenders now because they've got one top ten (KG, when healthy) along with a top 15 (Pierce, who pushes top 10 at times).

Caron Butler is only worth getting if he makes our current team better. And, if the cost is Ray, I don't think he does.