If Sheed was a mistake what were the other realistic options?

[Eja117]

For the most part, Sheed missed a lot of wide open shots in his 3 for 42 run. Hard to defend, but it's hard to say all of those 42 shots were "forced". And, at 7 feet, when you say he's shooting with a "man in his face", it depends on who you mean. Not anyone can guard Rasheed at his height and have it matter. It's one of the reasons that plays are made for Pierce. Who can really guard him at his height?

Anyways, no it wasn't a mistake to bring him in, and considering he actually tried to post up last night as opposed to camp behind the arc all the time, I'm surprised you waited until now to ask this topic, cause last night was probably one of Rasheed's best games this season. For the most part, I think he's always brought it defensively. And he's definitely "fit in".

I admit my timing is cruddy.

It's a combo of factors. First I admit I had him on my fantasy team so I'm mad at him.
Next there's other stuff going on like his 6 techs leading the league.

Then this morning there's that thing where he's criticizing Hedo Turk (also on my fantasy team and doing way better than Sheed) and I was just thinking "If you did half as well for my team as he did I'd be able to listen to this more".  But it just struck me that this season Hedo has done his job with a modicum of success and Sheed really hasn't.

There's a lot of very good pro-Sheed points here.

Actually the interesting thing to me is somewhat a result of nick's point. House and Posey fit right in. Not Marbury. And Sheed is sorta up in the air. It seems the bigger the name the less they fit. The thing it really makes me reevaluate is Iverson

[Jon]

I don't get what people mean as a mistake.  Even if we look at him as pessimistically as possible, he's still way better than anyone we had off the bench last year.  Furthermore, even on his worst nights, he still can pull out opposing centers and open things up in the middle like Rodney Rogers did when he was here.  On his best nights, he can score down low, defend, and decimate teams from the outside.  

I don't know what people were expecting from him, but he's still one of the better bench big men in the league and he will get hot again and make everyone forget about the past few weeks.  

[nickagneta]

For the most part, Sheed missed a lot of wide open shots in his 3 for 42 run. Hard to defend, but it's hard to say all of those 42 shots were "forced". And, at 7 feet, when you say he's shooting with a "man in his face", it depends on who you mean. Not anyone can guard Rasheed at his height and have it matter. It's one of the reasons that plays are made for Pierce. Who can really guard him at his height?

Anyways, no it wasn't a mistake to bring him in, and considering he actually tried to post up last night as opposed to camp behind the arc all the time, I'm surprised you waited until now to ask this topic, cause last night was probably one of Rasheed's best games this season. For the most part, I think he's always brought it defensively. And he's definitely "fit in".

I admit my timing is cruddy.

It's a combo of factors. First I admit I had him on my fantasy team so I'm mad at him.
Next there's other stuff going on like his 6 techs leading the league.

Then this morning there's that thing where he's criticizing Hedo Turk (also on my fantasy team and doing way better than Sheed) and I was just thinking "If you did half as well for my team as he did I'd be able to listen to this more".  But it just struck me that this season Hedo has done his job with a modicum of success and Sheed really hasn't.

There's a lot of very good pro-Sheed points here.

Actually the interesting thing to me is somewhat a result of nick's point. House and Posey fit right in. Not Marbury. And Sheed is sorta up in the air. It seems the bigger the name the less they fit. The thing it really makes me reevaluate is Iverson

Hold on...who from the Celtics has said that Sheed isn't fitting in? From what I can see from the court camaraderie during timeouts and introductions and during timeouts, Sheed seems to be a hit with his team mates and on the court he seems to be playing great, Celtics style defense. He went through a slump, just like Eddie and Posey did during their times here. But I think he's fit in just fine, even better than I originally thought he might having to play a 5th or 6th fiddle.

[Eja117]

For the most part, Sheed missed a lot of wide open shots in his 3 for 42 run. Hard to defend, but it's hard to say all of those 42 shots were "forced". And, at 7 feet, when you say he's shooting with a "man in his face", it depends on who you mean. Not anyone can guard Rasheed at his height and have it matter. It's one of the reasons that plays are made for Pierce. Who can really guard him at his height?

Anyways, no it wasn't a mistake to bring him in, and considering he actually tried to post up last night as opposed to camp behind the arc all the time, I'm surprised you waited until now to ask this topic, cause last night was probably one of Rasheed's best games this season. For the most part, I think he's always brought it defensively. And he's definitely "fit in".

I admit my timing is cruddy.

It's a combo of factors. First I admit I had him on my fantasy team so I'm mad at him.
Next there's other stuff going on like his 6 techs leading the league.

Then this morning there's that thing where he's criticizing Hedo Turk (also on my fantasy team and doing way better than Sheed) and I was just thinking "If you did half as well for my team as he did I'd be able to listen to this more".  But it just struck me that this season Hedo has done his job with a modicum of success and Sheed really hasn't.

There's a lot of very good pro-Sheed points here.

Actually the interesting thing to me is somewhat a result of nick's point. House and Posey fit right in. Not Marbury. And Sheed is sorta up in the air. It seems the bigger the name the less they fit. The thing it really makes me reevaluate is Iverson

Hold on...who from the Celtics has said that Sheed isn't fitting in? From what I can see from the court camaraderie during timeouts and introductions and during timeouts, Sheed seems to be a hit with his team mates and on the court he seems to be playing great, Celtics style defense. He went through a slump, just like Eddie and Posey did during their times here. But I think he's fit in just fine, even better than I originally thought he might having to play a 5th or 6th fiddle.

I definitely don't want to put words in anyone's mouth so I don't think anyone said he's not fitting in. Not in those exact words anyway.

Even I didn't say he's not fitting in. I said it was sorta up in the air.
I just think his horrid shooting percentages and many techs are leading me to question if he is fitting in. I hope you're right and it's just a slump and not age or whatever.

Tough call

[nickagneta]

For the most part, Sheed missed a lot of wide open shots in his 3 for 42 run. Hard to defend, but it's hard to say all of those 42 shots were "forced". And, at 7 feet, when you say he's shooting with a "man in his face", it depends on who you mean. Not anyone can guard Rasheed at his height and have it matter. It's one of the reasons that plays are made for Pierce. Who can really guard him at his height?

Anyways, no it wasn't a mistake to bring him in, and considering he actually tried to post up last night as opposed to camp behind the arc all the time, I'm surprised you waited until now to ask this topic, cause last night was probably one of Rasheed's best games this season. For the most part, I think he's always brought it defensively. And he's definitely "fit in".

I admit my timing is cruddy.

It's a combo of factors. First I admit I had him on my fantasy team so I'm mad at him.
Next there's other stuff going on like his 6 techs leading the league.

Then this morning there's that thing where he's criticizing Hedo Turk (also on my fantasy team and doing way better than Sheed) and I was just thinking "If you did half as well for my team as he did I'd be able to listen to this more".  But it just struck me that this season Hedo has done his job with a modicum of success and Sheed really hasn't.

There's a lot of very good pro-Sheed points here.

Actually the interesting thing to me is somewhat a result of nick's point. House and Posey fit right in. Not Marbury. And Sheed is sorta up in the air. It seems the bigger the name the less they fit. The thing it really makes me reevaluate is Iverson

Hold on...who from the Celtics has said that Sheed isn't fitting in? From what I can see from the court camaraderie during timeouts and introductions and during timeouts, Sheed seems to be a hit with his team mates and on the court he seems to be playing great, Celtics style defense. He went through a slump, just like Eddie and Posey did during their times here. But I think he's fit in just fine, even better than I originally thought he might having to play a 5th or 6th fiddle.

I definitely don't want to put words in anyone's mouth so I don't think anyone said he's not fitting in. Not in those exact words anyway.

Even I didn't say he's not fitting in. I said it was sorta up in the air.
I just think his horrid shooting percentages and many techs are leading me to question if he is fitting in. I hope you're right and it's just a slump and not age or whatever.

Tough call

Sorry dude...didn't want it to seem like I was being uppity but after re-reading what I wrote and what you wrote, I guess it could come off that way.

I can see where someone could come to the conclusion that he might not be fitting in but I think we really need to give this another 3 months of so before making that decision. It's early. He, as well as others, hasn't played well in stretches and I think bringing in Sheed has to come with the understanding that about half the refs in the league HATE the guy and will T just for smelling bad.

I would say that a good 2-3 of those technicals are pretty questionable. Last night's was ridiculous. He was getting banged underneath constantly and fouled on shots on two consecutive underneath post moves without a call and then saw Pierce got whistled for a foul on the C's end when the guy jumped into Pierce. He complained but it didn't appear or sound like he f-bombed the guy. But he was T'ed.

In some ways you just have to live with his T's just like Perk's because there are a large group of officials that simply will go out of their way to T up Perk and Sheed and I'm convinced it's personal and has nothing to do with actual NBA rule guidelines for calling a technical foul on a player.

[LB3533]

Or course signing Sheed is and was not a mistake. We had to go and get him. Sheed just needs to shoot better and it looks like he's found his stroke.

Aside for Sheed's horrible shooting, his overall game has been pretty darn good.

Oh and Toine in his prime was eons better than Sheed.

Toine could dominate games in his prime, Sheed could only dominate the refs.

[Eja117]

For the most part, Sheed missed a lot of wide open shots in his 3 for 42 run. Hard to defend, but it's hard to say all of those 42 shots were "forced". And, at 7 feet, when you say he's shooting with a "man in his face", it depends on who you mean. Not anyone can guard Rasheed at his height and have it matter. It's one of the reasons that plays are made for Pierce. Who can really guard him at his height?

Anyways, no it wasn't a mistake to bring him in, and considering he actually tried to post up last night as opposed to camp behind the arc all the time, I'm surprised you waited until now to ask this topic, cause last night was probably one of Rasheed's best games this season. For the most part, I think he's always brought it defensively. And he's definitely "fit in".

I admit my timing is cruddy.

It's a combo of factors. First I admit I had him on my fantasy team so I'm mad at him.
Next there's other stuff going on like his 6 techs leading the league.

Then this morning there's that thing where he's criticizing Hedo Turk (also on my fantasy team and doing way better than Sheed) and I was just thinking "If you did half as well for my team as he did I'd be able to listen to this more".  But it just struck me that this season Hedo has done his job with a modicum of success and Sheed really hasn't.

There's a lot of very good pro-Sheed points here.

Actually the interesting thing to me is somewhat a result of nick's point. House and Posey fit right in. Not Marbury. And Sheed is sorta up in the air. It seems the bigger the name the less they fit. The thing it really makes me reevaluate is Iverson

Hold on...who from the Celtics has said that Sheed isn't fitting in? From what I can see from the court camaraderie during timeouts and introductions and during timeouts, Sheed seems to be a hit with his team mates and on the court he seems to be playing great, Celtics style defense. He went through a slump, just like Eddie and Posey did during their times here. But I think he's fit in just fine, even better than I originally thought he might having to play a 5th or 6th fiddle.

I definitely don't want to put words in anyone's mouth so I don't think anyone said he's not fitting in. Not in those exact words anyway.

Even I didn't say he's not fitting in. I said it was sorta up in the air.
I just think his horrid shooting percentages and many techs are leading me to question if he is fitting in. I hope you're right and it's just a slump and not age or whatever.

Tough call

Sorry dude...didn't want it to seem like I was being uppity but after re-reading what I wrote and what you wrote, I guess it could come off that way.

I can see where someone could come to the conclusion that he might not be fitting in but I think we really need to give this another 3 months of so before making that decision. It's early. He, as well as others, hasn't played well in stretches and I think bringing in Sheed has to come with the understanding that about half the refs in the league HATE the guy and will T just for smelling bad.

I would say that a good 2-3 of those technicals are pretty questionable. Last night's was ridiculous. He was getting banged underneath constantly and fouled on shots on two consecutive underneath post moves without a call and then saw Pierce got whistled for a foul on the C's end when the guy jumped into Pierce. He complained but it didn't appear or sound like he f-bombed the guy. But he was T'ed.

In some ways you just have to live with his T's just like Perk's because there are a large group of officials that simply will go out of their way to T up Perk and Sheed and I'm convinced it's personal and has nothing to do with actual NBA rule guidelines for calling a technical foul on a player.

True. A bunch of guys haven't played great. I'm not about to ask if KG isn't fitting in or anything

[gpap]

I wasn't a huge fan of him before he came here, but was all for them going out and getting him. Loved him the first 5 games.

But now I'm asking myself...just a more quotable less talented Toine who gets more techs?

And it's not just the Celts that may be asking themselves similar questions.

You know Memphis is sitting around reading Iverson headlines saying "Well that sure as heck didn't work"

and the Cavs have to be asking themselves similar questions about Shaq.

So I have to ask, what were the other realistic options and what are they now?

When Glen gets back if he plays a few decent games do you bench Sheed? How do you think he'd react to that? If he whines and complains instead of going to the practice gym and they cut him I'm fine with that.

At the risk of being rude, I will keep this civil but express my frustration. I am getting really, really sick of these "Was Sheed a mistake" threads.

It's only been 16 games people. And I don't know if anyone was paying attention to the game last night, but he scored about 15 points along with 4 rebounds. He also did play in the paint. He's a very good PF/C and good insurance in case KG goes down again (knock on wood.) So the answer is no....gettting Sheed was NOT a mistake.

And by the way, Glen "I'm going to break my thumb the night before the season begins" Davis is not better than Sheed.

[dpaps]

I wasn't a huge fan of him before he came here, but was all for them going out and getting him. Loved him the first 5 games.

But now I'm asking myself...just a more quotable less talented Toine who gets more techs?

And it's not just the Celts that may be asking themselves similar questions.

You know Memphis is sitting around reading Iverson headlines saying "Well that sure as heck didn't work"

and the Cavs have to be asking themselves similar questions about Shaq.

So I have to ask, what were the other realistic options and what are they now?

When Glen gets back if he plays a few decent games do you bench Sheed? How do you think he'd react to that? If he whines and complains instead of going to the practice gym and they cut him I'm fine with that.

At the risk of being rude, I will keep this civil but express my frustration. I am getting really, really sick of these "Was Sheed a mistake," thread.

It's only been 16 games people. And I don't know if anyone was paying attention to the game last night, but he scored about 15 points along with 4 rebounds. He also did play in the paint. He's a very good PF/C and good insurance in case KG goes down again (knock on wood.) So the answer is no....gettting Sheed was NOT a mistake.

And by the way, Glen "I'm going to break my thumb the night before the season begins" Davis is not better than Sheed.

Well then shouldn't you simply offer your side of the argument (that signing Sheed was not a mistake)? Why would this topic's existence frustrate you in any way? You can always simply not click it. When you make comments that you're really frustrated and sick of these threads, thats an insult to the original poster. I don't understand how a topic that can absolutely be argued can be a negative. No one is forced to read the thread. The OP was just opening a topic for people to debate.

For the record, No, I don't think Sheed was a mistake. But I'll die defending your right to argue it. haha

[Greenbean]

...just a more quotable less talented Toine who gets more techs?

You're kidding right?

Rasheed is and has always been such a better player than Antoine Walker. That's a preposterous comparison. Sheed in his prime was a dominating defensive big who could shut down power forwards and centers alike while playing a team oriented, highly functional and hard to guard offensive game.

Right now, he is less talented the Walker in his prime.


Of course Walker in his prime was the teams 2nd option and vocal leader.  Wallace is being asked to be the 6th man.


And as a 6th man, he is not a mistake.  He is providing the low post defense the team needs.  He has shown his ability to be the outside shooter the team needed (even though he is streaky, teams still have to respect his shot)

What he said.

He is not being relied upon like other FA acquisitions (Shaq, AI) to play a big role. Clearly he is still adjusting to that new role and his rythym shooting the ball has been off. A basketball mistake? No. He is being paid quite a bit though.

[thirstyboots18]

My answer to the "I'm sick of this thread" poster.  I also am tired of some threads, so the answer for me is to stop reading or replying to them.  For example, I get upset at a lot of the "trade" thread, so unless it is posted by someone who's opinion I value, I usually don't read them.  Why get into an argument with someone you don't know over something that is not winnable and is probably hypothetical?  Anyway, works for me.  Everyone has an opinion and should be allowed to express it, as long as they don't use bad language, bait others, insult anyone, or act condescendingly.  In other words...don't fight simply for the sake of fighting  and remember that others have valid opinions, too.  I want to make it clear that his is my opinion, not as a mod (albeit a lowly chat mod   ), but as a poster.  If something is on tv that you don't like, you can state your opinion and/or turn the station and watch something you do enjoy.  

[Eja117]

I wasn't a huge fan of him before he came here, but was all for them going out and getting him. Loved him the first 5 games.

But now I'm asking myself...just a more quotable less talented Toine who gets more techs?

And it's not just the Celts that may be asking themselves similar questions.

You know Memphis is sitting around reading Iverson headlines saying "Well that sure as heck didn't work"

and the Cavs have to be asking themselves similar questions about Shaq.

So I have to ask, what were the other realistic options and what are they now?

When Glen gets back if he plays a few decent games do you bench Sheed? How do you think he'd react to that? If he whines and complains instead of going to the practice gym and they cut him I'm fine with that.

At the risk of being rude, I will keep this civil but express my frustration. I am getting really, really sick of these "Was Sheed a mistake" threads.

It's only been 16 games people. And I don't know if anyone was paying attention to the game last night, but he scored about 15 points along with 4 rebounds. He also did play in the paint. He's a very good PF/C and good insurance in case KG goes down again (knock on wood.) So the answer is no....gettting Sheed was NOT a mistake.

And by the way, Glen "I'm going to break my thumb the night before the season begins" Davis is not better than Sheed.

Ok, I am going to change the original thread title and try to save this thread. Then in the spirit of trying to make everyone happy I will take issue with myself in the original post in an effort to bring out more of the positive here.

I wasn't aware that there was a specific amount of Sheed mistake threads here. I figured people were a little upset with his play, so there have been Sheed questions, but wasn't aware there were Sheed threads

[Eja117]

The original poster here is missing the major point that while Sheed may be having a tough time "fitting in", whatever that means, what were the other realistic options at the time?

Sheed was considered the best guy on the market at the time. Who were they supposed to sign for the MLE? Ariza? Artest? We needed a big man.

Maaayyybbbeee if they had put the full MLE into Grant Hill it might have worked, but he didn't want to come here so bad and has a horrid injury history.

[indeedproceed]

I really don't think Sheed was a mistake at all. We're 1 game out of 1st place in the league, Garnett is playing 30 well spaced out mins a game.

All in all if Sheed was a mistake how much better could we have done?

[thirstyboots18]

I don't remember seeing other "Sheed" thread, eja...and this one did get a lot of action!  (of course, I am old and my memory is faulty...but not to a fault!)  Wait, I will have to verify that with my mother, ha ha ha ha...