Doc Rivers tells Sheed to limit 3's

[rondohondo]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62911/20091120/rivers_tells_rasheed_to_limit_threes/

Celtics coach Doc Rivers told forward Rasheed Wallace to stop attempting three-pointers during the team's win over the Warriors on Wednesday.

"I got on him, and I rarely do, about the threes," Rivers admitted. "Because even though he was wide open, it's really tough. I mean, he was wide open and he took two, but we had just taken two quick ones. But he's got an incredibly high basketball IQ. He's been phenomenal in the locker room. So, I'm just happy to have him."

Wallace has attempted 70 three-pointers this season, hitting 31.4% of them. He's on pace for 500 attempts in 2009-10.

He is right I would like to see Sheed in the post more often . I hate that he just bombs away even when there is a hand right in his face.

[Brickowski]

I love the guy, but he has been taking too many threes.  He's a great post player, and I'd like to see him down there more often. Three pointers are the lazy way out.

[Evantime34]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62911/20091120/rivers_tells_rasheed_to_limit_threes/

Celtics coach Doc Rivers told forward Rasheed Wallace to stop attempting three-pointers during the team's win over the Warriors on Wednesday.

"I got on him, and I rarely do, about the threes," Rivers admitted. "Because even though he was wide open, it's really tough. I mean, he was wide open and he took two, but we had just taken two quick ones. But he's got an incredibly high basketball IQ. He's been phenomenal in the locker room. So, I'm just happy to have him."

Wallace has attempted 70 three-pointers this season, hitting 31.4% of them. He's on pace for 500 attempts in 2009-10.

He is right I would like to see Sheed in the post more often . I had that he just bombs away even when there is a hand right in his face.

I agree with this, but it's not far enough. I feel like everyone is taking too many threes. Let's get the ball inside to Kg or use the fact that we have three point shooters to upfake move the ball and eventually get to the rim.

[nickagneta]

So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.

[RAcker]

I think that this concern by Doc has grown a lot out of the low amount of FT's we are taking in many games (excluding ones by Rondo of late for obvoious reasons).  Most times, the amount of 3's we're taking and a lot of FT's per game can't co-exist.

It's obvious that Ray is taking to the basket more to try and keep defenses honest and Sheed will have to post more or roll instead of pop to accomplish the same thing. Only time will tell if Doc's sermon has been heard.

[LarBrd33]

When Sheed played for the Pistons I loved that he chucked threes... it was a great way to get the ball back from the Pistons since he usually clanged them... especially with the game on the line.  I could always count on Sheed to brick a key three point attempt.

[Slugger]

Posted by: nickagneta 
Insert Quote
So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.



What are you, a 10 year old?

Its great that you were saying then what Doc is saying now.  You should be our next coach.

And there is nothing wrong with the 3-point shot playing within the system.  As long as that 3 point shot isnt just jacked up, or taken without exploring open inside chances, it can be a good shot.

[nickagneta]

Posted by: nickagneta 
Insert Quote
So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.



What are you, a 10 year old?

Its great that you were saying then what Doc is saying now.  You should be our next coach.

And there is nothing wrong with the 3-point shot playing within the system.  As long as that 3 point shot isnt just jacked up, or taken without exploring open inside chances, it can be a good shot.

What does insulting me have to do with what I had to say?

I warned that the reliance on three point shooting could lead to lazy offense and possible losses if the team gets away from doing what they do best.

Maybe something like, "good call, nick" or "guess you were right, nick" or just ignoring my post would have been better, huh.

[Slugger]

Posted by: nickagneta 
Insert Quote
So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.



What are you, a 10 year old?

Its great that you were saying then what Doc is saying now.  You should be our next coach.

And there is nothing wrong with the 3-point shot playing within the system.  As long as that 3 point shot isnt just jacked up, or taken without exploring open inside chances, it can be a good shot.

What does insulting me have to do with what I had to say?

I warned that the reliance on three point shooting could lead to lazy offense and possible losses if the team gets away from doing what they do best.

Maybe something like, "good call, nick" or "guess you were right, nick" or just ignoring my post would have been better, huh.

Insulting??? Did you look at your initial post >? ****

Maybe we should start a "You were right, we were wrong" thread, Nick.

I usually agree with your posts, and you're a knowledgable fan.  But these posts saying i was right and you were wrong ner ner ner ner ner ner, are quite annoying.

I dont have a problem with the fact you said you stated what Doc is now saying in an earlier thread, but you kind of went on about it.

[Fan from VT]

So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.

I pointed out in another thread that the difference between then and now is that then we were taking open threes, now we (especially 'sheed) are taking contested threes. Huge difference, and it completely changes the discussion. I think a lot of people shared this point of view.

I stand by this. the three point shot is not in and of itself good or bad. Open threes are wonderful, and should be taken. contested ones are bad, and shouldn't be taken. I'm not sure what there is to get heated or condescending about. Again, the problem now vs. then is not three pointers themselves, the problem now is that teams have adjusted and we haven't.

EDIT- this is not directed at anyone in particular. I hope it's not interpreted that way.

[EJPLAYA]

Posted by: nickagneta 
Insert Quote
So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.



What are you, a 10 year old?

Its great that you were saying then what Doc is saying now.  You should be our next coach.

And there is nothing wrong with the 3-point shot playing within the system.  As long as that 3 point shot isnt just jacked up, or taken without exploring open inside chances, it can be a good shot.

What does insulting me have to do with what I had to say?

I warned that the reliance on three point shooting could lead to lazy offense and possible losses if the team gets away from doing what they do best.

Maybe something like, "good call, nick" or "guess you were right, nick" or just ignoring my post would have been better, huh.

Insulting??? Did you look at your initial post >? ****

Maybe we should start a "You were right, we were wrong" thread, Nick.

I usually agree with your posts, and you're a knowledgable fan.  But these posts saying i was right and you were wrong ner ner ner ner ner ner, are quite annoying.

I dont have a problem with the fact you said you stated what Doc is now saying in an earlier thread, but you kind of went on about it.

Maybe we should start a "sign in and post here if you want to be a jerk to someone for no reason" thread. Give nick a little slack. If you truly have read any of his posts you'll realize that he is one of the quality guys on here and doesn't deserve someone calling him names for no reason. If you don't like what he had to say then move on.

[nickagneta]

So maybe I should go back to my three point thread I started at the beginning of the year when the C's were winning and I said that we should be worried about how many threes are being taken and got lambasted, pretty much across the board for being wrong because as long as they are open they are good shots.

Now the coach of the team is saying, no, that's not so and people are agreeing with him. I wonder if I should go back and see if those same people were saying the same thing three weeks ago when I said this would become a problem.

I pointed out in another thread that the difference between then and now is that then we were taking open threes, now we (especially 'sheed) are taking contested threes. Huge difference, and it completely changes the discussion. I think a lot of people shared this point of view.

I stand by this. the three point shot is not in and of itself good or bad. Open threes are wonderful, and should be taken. contested ones are bad, and shouldn't be taken. I'm not sure what there is to get heated or condescending about. Again, the problem now vs. then is not three pointers themselves, the problem now is that teams have adjusted and we haven't.

EDIT- this is not directed at anyone in particular. I hope it's not interpreted that way.

I'm not so sure about these threes being contested. The other night after they went up by 15 they took like 6 straight threes with at least 4 being wide open.

Doc was discussing this particular stretch in the game. The shots were open but at that time of the game they were quick and the team never explored downing down low to force free throws or get easier baskets.

My entire discussion was that the shots in and of themselves weren't bad but a reliance on them leads to a lazy offensive mindset which I think lead to bad overall habits in the long run. By talking to Sheed about his threes, I think Doc is seeing what I was trying to warn about. Great basketball is not lazy basketball and if this team gets the mindset that they can just jack up threes to stick a dagger in opponents when they get up by 15 or so, instead of a lot of blowouts, they may be seeing a bunch of closer than it should have been games because they shot themselves out of a blowout because they didn't beat the ball inside where there opponents might be vulnerable.

Most people disagreed with me saying that as long as the shots are open they are good shots. But that thinking can lead to bad mindsets and I think that is what is happening before our eyes and what Doc is trying to head off. In many people's defense, they did say that Doc would put a stop to it if he noticed what I was talking about. He does, has mentioned it and now, let's see if he has the power to stop it.

[TitleMaster]

You were right Nick and others (not including myself, since I didn't participate and I'm against the Jim O'Brien 3pt system) were wrong.

Sorry folks, just admit that you lacked the foresight that Nick had depicted earlier on. The old adage, 'hindsight is 20/20', is a cop out by those who lack foresight and some commonsense.

[nickagneta]

I didn't post that to show people up or to get people to pat me on the back. the purpose of my post was to show that the writing was on the wall from early on and, knowing CB like I do, we are all pretty knowledgeable basketball people, for the most part.

What I am trying to say is I hope people don't start hating Sheed or complaining to much because when those shots were dropping, people for the most part didn't mind them. But an over reliance on the three can create a bad mindset, especially to tough physical inside basketball, which is what this team thrived on during the championship year.

Yes they shot a bunch of threes then but they didn't let it make them become soft either offensively or defensively. I just don't want this team to become so enamored with the three ball they become something I think will lead to them not being tough anymore.

[LB3533]

If Sheed was hitting at 40% Doc wouldn't need to tell him to hold back.

We are a 3 point shooting team and we will still be a 3 point shooting team when the playoffs roll around.