"We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)

[Bankshot]

Didn't AI sign with a team where it was made clear he would come off the bench?



How did that work out? 

He says he's willing to come off the bench for a contender.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62836/20091117/manager_iverson_still_wants_to_play/

[nickagneta]

I will once again restate my long standing theory regarding Celtic fans that want Allen Iverson to join the Celtics:

They are, for the most part, men less than the age of 27 who grew up in their basketball loving and playing youth idolizing the And1 style of Iverson and bought into his game because they didn't have a great Celtic player or team to love. Iverson's tatooed, thug persona was pushed upon the youth of America to go along with the hip hop urban culture that was prevalent at the time. Young men grew up thinking Iverson's one on one, do everything myself, be the star selfish game was the right way to play ball and they fell in love with him because his marketing fell perfectly in line with a culture they loved.

Years later, AI is available and all these men see and remember is the basketball idol of their youth and don't, after seeing a championship and what team ball and sacrifice is all about, want to re-examine whether they might have had  misconceptions of what was good basketball really was. So they just think Iverson will transform into something he is not to conform to what they know is a winning formula, hoping beyond hope, that the hero of their youth and will prove that flawed style of basketball they fell in love with as youth can actually help a team win a title.

Think with your head and not a nostalgic heart people. You know AI is the complete opposite of game and championship winning team basketball. Let him fade into memory as a unique individual talent that almost was good enough to challenge a team for a championship. But basketball is a team game and no one individual player will ever beat a good team in this game, ever, and adding those types of players who refuse to conform will only hinder a good team from being great, not help it.

[scootman]

no no no no non no no god no!!!!

[scootman]

Say what you want about him, but this guy could flat out play.

"could" being the key word he thinks thers an I in team

[LB3533]

I'm older than 27...have been rooting for Iverson since he was drafted, rooted for him tons when Philly faced the Lakers in the 2000 Finals.

I've always felt that the NBA needed more players like AI, who gave it their all during the game, when it mattered most.

In basketball terms, adding AI to our roster would solve this one glaring problem that I have seen repeated over and over the last 2+ years.....our knack of over passing the ball.

With AI on board, we'd have someone as an answer to take the shot, when no one wants to...it seems.

[Evantime34]

I will once again restate my long standing theory regarding Celtic fans that want Allen Iverson to join the Celtics:

They are, for the most part, men less than the age of 27 who grew up in their basketball loving and playing youth idolizing the And1 style of Iverson and bought into his game because they didn't have a great Celtic player or team to love. Iverson's tatooed, thug persona was pushed upon the youth of America to go along with the hip hop urban culture that was prevalent at the time. Young men grew up thinking Iverson's one on one, do everything myself, be the star selfish game was the right way to play ball and they fell in love with him because his marketing fell perfectly in line with a culture they loved.

Years later, AI is available and all these men see and remember is the basketball idol of their youth and don't, after seeing a championship and what team ball and sacrifice is all about, want to re-examine whether they might have had  misconceptions of what was good basketball really was. So they just think Iverson will transform into something he is not to conform to what they know is a winning formula, hoping beyond hope, that the hero of their youth and will prove that flawed style of basketball they fell in love with as youth can actually help a team win a title.

Think with your head and not a nostalgic heart people. You know AI is the complete opposite of game and championship winning team basketball. Let him fade into memory as a unique individual talent that almost was good enough to challenge a team for a championship. But basketball is a team game and no one individual player will ever beat a good team in this game, ever, and adding those types of players who refuse to conform will only hinder a good team from being great, not help it.

My opinions on your theory
I am 23 and a huge AI fan. I am not a fan of And 1 but I do enjoy athletecism. I love Iverson because of his huge heart, he is very slight of frame but goes to the hole and takes a pounding every year. Other players of his stature would have got knocked down a few times and decided to stay away from the paint.
I don't know about urban hip hop lifestyle being pushed upon America. Some people liked it some people didn't. I feel that if you don't like something and it is covered in the media you might feel like it is being pushed upon you.
The same argument could be made of Pierce and Ray Allen about taking a lot of shots and not playing team basketball, but given the right situation they gave up selfishness. You act like AI never made it to the playoffs, or to the NBA finals for that matter.
I would love him on our team if what he says about joining a contender and being satisfied being a bench player. I was of this mindset over the summer. However, seeing him sign with Memphis and then being surprised to find he had a reserve role is ridiculous. He had to know what he was getting into and didn't deal with it well. After the experiment in Memphis I don't believe he knows how to be anything besides a starter. (I'm not saying he's not a team player just that he feels he needs to start)
In sumation I wish he could be a good addition for our team, but the Memphis ordeal proved that it is unlikely. If we sign him I will be the first to support him.

[nickagneta]

Before we get a ton of 20 somethings expressing themselves about how wrong I am about them, let me say that this is a general theory and it doesn't not pertain to everyone.

LB3533, you're older than 27 but you seem to be an unabashed Iverson fan. Question, how much older than 27 are you? My age theory is not set in stone for age but my guess here is that most mid 30 and older people would hate Iverson's style of basketball and think him a huge mistake to bring onto this team.

Evantime, about your comments. Let's face it, basketball during Iverson's career has been most marketed to men and boys between the ages of 10 and 40 with a huge marketing sector pushed primarily into the 13-26 year old demographic of people who wore NBA gear in the hip hop culture of the late 90's and early to mid 2000's.

Iverson was one of the best, if not the best, selling jersey during that time period. people in that age bracket idolized him for more than just his game. His rebelling against authority, cornrows, tatoos and urban way of speech was a huge attraction for many. Many, a very great many, who were in that demographic still love Iverson and are going to want him on the Celtics, their favorite team, regardless of what his current game is or whether he even fits properly here.

Now, do some who truly love the game and loved Iverson then start to see what Iverson has become as a person and a player and an employee and change their opinion about whether he would fit here? Sure. I'm not saying everyone can be perfectly divided on this issue by age. I'm saying that if there is something that the overwhelming majority of Iverson lovers and haters have in common, it's age. Most Iverson haters are older, most Iverson lovers younger.

[GreenFaith1819]

I will once again restate my long standing theory regarding Celtic fans that want Allen Iverson to join the Celtics:

They are, for the most part, men less than the age of 27 who grew up in their basketball loving and playing youth idolizing the And1 style of Iverson and bought into his game because they didn't have a great Celtic player or team to love. Iverson's tatooed, thug persona was pushed upon the youth of America to go along with the hip hop urban culture that was prevalent at the time. Young men grew up thinking Iverson's one on one, do everything myself, be the star selfish game was the right way to play ball and they fell in love with him because his marketing fell perfectly in line with a culture they loved.

Years later, AI is available and all these men see and remember is the basketball idol of their youth and don't, after seeing a championship and what team ball and sacrifice is all about, want to re-examine whether they might have had  misconceptions of what was good basketball really was. So they just think Iverson will transform into something he is not to conform to what they know is a winning formula, hoping beyond hope, that the hero of their youth and will prove that flawed style of basketball they fell in love with as youth can actually help a team win a title.

Think with your head and not a nostalgic heart people. You know AI is the complete opposite of game and championship winning team basketball. Let him fade into memory as a unique individual talent that almost was good enough to challenge a team for a championship. But basketball is a team game and no one individual player will ever beat a good team in this game, ever, and adding those types of players who refuse to conform will only hinder a good team from being great, not help it.

Interesting theory, Nick. During my time as a Celtics Fan I have always been a fan of Celtics greats first. That has not kept me from not liking and respecting other players' games, though.

I have always respected AI for his game and determination. As I stated yesterday during same thread, I believe AI could help Boston, but with conditions.

I am a 40 Y.O. African American male, with no tatoos, that listens to Gospel music and some jazz...but yet I still respect AI and his fire. I ended up respecting the Celtics Organization even more than I had previously after they gave Stephon Marbury an opportunity last year.

AI took Philadelphia to the NBA Finals back in 2000. Yes they lost in five games to the Lakers, but AI had great teammates in a young Mutumbo, Aaron Mckie and a few others.

I wonder if you asked Mutumbo, Mckie, and John Thompson what they felt about AI what would they say?

And apparently, the late great Red Auerbach would have loved AI on the Celtics, as posted by a reader yesterday.

Great Discussion, though.

[2short]

we dodged a bullet with little to no trouble with marbury and to a lesser extent sam complaining about pt (in no way does sam = stephan in bad attitude)
iverson would be just asking for an implosion of a team or a serious fight
think he'd tell kg he isn't going to practice 

[mrkelly]

That boy wouldn't last two months on this team. Some say last year struggles were due to the lack of Ubuntu attitude, think about what AI brings to the table. Something more like MEbuntu.

[Evantime34]

Before we get a ton of 20 somethings expressing themselves about how wrong I am about them, let me say that this is a general theory and it doesn't not pertain to everyone.

LB3533, you're older than 27 but you seem to be an unabashed Iverson fan. Question, how much older than 27 are you? My age theory is not set in stone for age but my guess here is that most mid 30 and older people would hate Iverson's style of basketball and think him a huge mistake to bring onto this team.

Evantime, about your comments. Let's face it, basketball during Iverson's career has been most marketed to men and boys between the ages of 10 and 40 with a huge marketing sector pushed primarily into the 13-26 year old demographic of people who wore NBA gear in the hip hop culture of the late 90's and early to mid 2000's.

Iverson was one of the best, if not the best, selling jersey during that time period. people in that age bracket idolized him for more than just his game. His rebelling against authority, cornrows, tatoos and urban way of speech was a huge attraction for many. Many, a very great many, who were in that demographic still love Iverson and are going to want him on the Celtics, their favorite team, regardless of what his current game is or whether he even fits properly here.

Now, do some who truly love the game and loved Iverson then start to see what Iverson has become as a person and a player and an employee and change their opinion about whether he would fit here? Sure. I'm not saying everyone can be perfectly divided on this issue by age. I'm saying that if there is something that the overwhelming majority of Iverson lovers and haters have in common, it's age. Most Iverson haters are older, most Iverson lovers younger.

I agree that most common factor dividing those who hate or support AI is age. I feel like this is very similar to Antoine. A lot of younger people loved Antoine for his 3's and the wiggle (myself included) a lot of older people hated the jacking and showboating.

Although I don't agree that Iverson is selfish you make a good argument. The only thing I basely disagree with is, that hip hop culture was forced upon us it was just what was popular at the time.

[nickagneta]

I will once again restate my long standing theory regarding Celtic fans that want Allen Iverson to join the Celtics:

They are, for the most part, men less than the age of 27 who grew up in their basketball loving and playing youth idolizing the And1 style of Iverson and bought into his game because they didn't have a great Celtic player or team to love. Iverson's tatooed, thug persona was pushed upon the youth of America to go along with the hip hop urban culture that was prevalent at the time. Young men grew up thinking Iverson's one on one, do everything myself, be the star selfish game was the right way to play ball and they fell in love with him because his marketing fell perfectly in line with a culture they loved.

Years later, AI is available and all these men see and remember is the basketball idol of their youth and don't, after seeing a championship and what team ball and sacrifice is all about, want to re-examine whether they might have had  misconceptions of what was good basketball really was. So they just think Iverson will transform into something he is not to conform to what they know is a winning formula, hoping beyond hope, that the hero of their youth and will prove that flawed style of basketball they fell in love with as youth can actually help a team win a title.

Think with your head and not a nostalgic heart people. You know AI is the complete opposite of game and championship winning team basketball. Let him fade into memory as a unique individual talent that almost was good enough to challenge a team for a championship. But basketball is a team game and no one individual player will ever beat a good team in this game, ever, and adding those types of players who refuse to conform will only hinder a good team from being great, not help it.

Interesting theory, Nick. During my time as a Celtics Fan I have always been a fan of Celtics greats first. That has not kept me from not liking and respecting other players' games, though.

I have always respected AI for his game and determination. As I stated yesterday during same thread, I believe AI could help Boston, but with conditions.

I am a 40 Y.O. African American male, with no tatoos, that listens to Gospel music and some jazz...but yet I still respect AI and his fire. I ended up respecting the Celtics Organization even more than I had previously after they gave Stephon Marbury an opportunity last year.

AI took Philadelphia to the NBA Finals back in 2000. Yes they lost in five games to the Lakers, but AI had great teammates in a young Mutumbo, Aaron Mckie and a few others.

I wonder if you asked Mutumbo, Mckie, and John Thompson what they felt about AI what would they say?

And apparently, the late great Red Auerbach would have loved AI on the Celtics, as posted by a reader yesterday.

Great Discussion, though.

I respect that. I too, like you, respect Iverson's toughness, heart, fire, competitiveness and his truly gorgeous shot. The kid has always been a huge warrior in a small body.

But, even in his youth, I saw he was pretty much an uncoachable(with a few exceptions, Mr Brown and Mr Thompson), attitudinal, ball centric player who's game could not be instituted into a team oriented concept. AI grew up watching Michael Jordan and believing in the media hype and marketing of the late 80's and early 90's that was all about individual basketball play, ESPN highlights, the Dunk contest, and the me above the we in basketball.

Michael incorporated others eventually and learned to make others better and become a team player. Iverson, unfortunately, took early-Michael to a new level of ball hogging NBA basketball and never learned the lessons that Jordan did about needing team mates incorporating them into a total team game and becoming the team player. because of that my respect for him waned to the point now that I think he is a cancer to any team and coach he would come in contact with and, once again, unfortunately, I am being proven right year in and year out by no one less than Iverson himself.

[nickagneta]

Before we get a ton of 20 somethings expressing themselves about how wrong I am about them, let me say that this is a general theory and it doesn't not pertain to everyone.

LB3533, you're older than 27 but you seem to be an unabashed Iverson fan. Question, how much older than 27 are you? My age theory is not set in stone for age but my guess here is that most mid 30 and older people would hate Iverson's style of basketball and think him a huge mistake to bring onto this team.

Evantime, about your comments. Let's face it, basketball during Iverson's career has been most marketed to men and boys between the ages of 10 and 40 with a huge marketing sector pushed primarily into the 13-26 year old demographic of people who wore NBA gear in the hip hop culture of the late 90's and early to mid 2000's.

Iverson was one of the best, if not the best, selling jersey during that time period. people in that age bracket idolized him for more than just his game. His rebelling against authority, cornrows, tatoos and urban way of speech was a huge attraction for many. Many, a very great many, who were in that demographic still love Iverson and are going to want him on the Celtics, their favorite team, regardless of what his current game is or whether he even fits properly here.

Now, do some who truly love the game and loved Iverson then start to see what Iverson has become as a person and a player and an employee and change their opinion about whether he would fit here? Sure. I'm not saying everyone can be perfectly divided on this issue by age. I'm saying that if there is something that the overwhelming majority of Iverson lovers and haters have in common, it's age. Most Iverson haters are older, most Iverson lovers younger.

I agree that most common factor dividing those who hate or support AI is age. I feel like this is very similar to Antoine. A lot of younger people loved Antoine for his 3's and the wiggle (myself included) a lot of older people hated the jacking and showboating.

Although I don't agree that Iverson is selfish you make a good argument. The only thing I basely disagree with is, that hip hop culture was forced upon us it was just what was popular at the time.

Probaly worded that wrong about hip hop. I love the music genre and some of my all time faves are from this musical style. I always hated the "lifestyle" it pushed, however. Cop hating, race hating, woman hating thuggery was part of what came with the music. The music I loved, the message and other stuff that was packaged with it, I did not. But I guess that is probably left to another thread with a very different discussion.

[ManUp]

I wish the Lakers would pick him up. It would be great seeing him and Kobe fight for the ball. It could get physical with Artest in the mix, lol.

[Celtics17]

This is just a general statement to everyone, especially the guys on here who have all of the stars next to the names. If you dont like someone elses opinions maybe you should just let them expresss them and not try to tell everyone on the site how he or she is wrong. You never know, you may be the one who is wrong. Respect others opinions.