What I like about Shelden Williams

[BudweiserCeltic]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

The only thing I've been arguing is that your portrayal of Baby is incorrect. His skillset and his impact on the game in particular. I could care less about your other arguments to tell you the truth. You're just spreading inaccuracies all over the place.

Funny how one person's opinion when not shared by another can be labeled "inaccuracies". I have argued BBD is a poor rebounder, mediocre shooter, poor perimeter defender, solid to good passer, solid to good low post defender with the ability to play very good defense against huge centers at times like Shaq or Yao, poor post player, horrid shot blocker, good hustler. How on earth can you possibly say those are inaccuracies. Every single one of those is spot on and honest and shared by anyone being honest with themselves about his skill set. Its what just about every scouting report has said about him his entire career and the reasons he didn't get some big full MLE deal from another team in the offseason. If there are inaccuracies being thrown around it is by the BBD lovefest guys who refuse to admit the guys weaknesses.

Because I'm not arguing against your opinion, I'm arguing against what you present as your facts that you present to support your opinions. For example, you mention he's a mediocre shooter because you're putting a lot of weight in old data for example. You say he's a poor offensive rebounder, when the stats show that he's above average overall in that department. You say we're calling him clutch because of one play against Orlando when there are stats that show the he's been clutch outside of that... in fact he's been clutch in just about every department, including rebounding. He's even a better rebounder than Perk in the clutch.

I don't get why you keep claiming there's a love fest with Baby. There really isn't none here. People simply don't think he's the dirt you're making him out to be.

I'll say this, I really hope that Williams keeps improving so that we can move Baby... making him expendable. But until then, your argument is simply flawed and inaccurate.

[Bankshot]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

The only thing I've been arguing is that your portrayal of Baby is incorrect. His skillset and his impact on the game in particular. I could care less about your other arguments to tell you the truth. You're just spreading inaccuracies all over the place.

Funny how one person's opinion when not shared by another can be labeled "inaccuracies". I have argued BBD is a poor rebounder, mediocre shooter, poor perimeter defender, solid to good passer, solid to good low post defender with the ability to play very good defense against huge centers at times like Shaq or Yao, poor post player, horrid shot blocker, good hustler. How on earth can you possibly say those are inaccuracies. Every single one of those is spot on and honest and shared by anyone being honest with themselves about his skill set. Its what just about every scouting report has said about him his entire career and the reasons he didn't get some big full MLE deal from another team in the offseason. If there are inaccuracies being thrown around it is by the BBD lovefest guys who refuse to admit the guys weaknesses.

Because I'm not arguing against your opinion, I'm arguing against what you present as your facts that you present to support your opinions. For example, you mention he's a mediocre shooter because you're putting a lot of weight in old data for example. You say he's a poor offensive rebounder, when the stats show that he's above average overall in that department. You say we're calling him clutch because of one play against Orlando when there are stats that show the he's been clutch outside of that... in fact he's been clutch in just about every department, including rebounding. He's even a better rebounder than Perk in the clutch.

I don't get why you keep claiming there's a love fest with Baby. There really isn't none here. People simply don't think he's the dirt you're making him out to be.

I'll say this, I really hope that Williams keeps improving so that we can move Baby... making him expendable. But until then, your argument is simply flawed and inaccurate.

Why do you "hope" Williams improves so we can trade Big Baby?  I want Williams to improve too, but not because I want to move Big Baby.  I'm just curious as to why you "want" to move Big Baby.

[BudweiserCeltic]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

The only thing I've been arguing is that your portrayal of Baby is incorrect. His skillset and his impact on the game in particular. I could care less about your other arguments to tell you the truth. You're just spreading inaccuracies all over the place.

Funny how one person's opinion when not shared by another can be labeled "inaccuracies". I have argued BBD is a poor rebounder, mediocre shooter, poor perimeter defender, solid to good passer, solid to good low post defender with the ability to play very good defense against huge centers at times like Shaq or Yao, poor post player, horrid shot blocker, good hustler. How on earth can you possibly say those are inaccuracies. Every single one of those is spot on and honest and shared by anyone being honest with themselves about his skill set. Its what just about every scouting report has said about him his entire career and the reasons he didn't get some big full MLE deal from another team in the offseason. If there are inaccuracies being thrown around it is by the BBD lovefest guys who refuse to admit the guys weaknesses.

Because I'm not arguing against your opinion, I'm arguing against what you present as your facts that you present to support your opinions. For example, you mention he's a mediocre shooter because you're putting a lot of weight in old data for example. You say he's a poor offensive rebounder, when the stats show that he's above average overall in that department. You say we're calling him clutch because of one play against Orlando when there are stats that show the he's been clutch outside of that... in fact he's been clutch in just about every department, including rebounding. He's even a better rebounder than Perk in the clutch.

I don't get why you keep claiming there's a love fest with Baby. There really isn't none here. People simply don't think he's the dirt you're making him out to be.

I'll say this, I really hope that Williams keeps improving so that we can move Baby... making him expendable. But until then, your argument is simply flawed and inaccurate.

Why do you "hope" Williams improves so we can trade Big Baby?  I want Williams to improve too, but not because I want to move Big Baby.  I'm just curious as to why you "want" to move Big Baby.

I don't want to trade Baby... just talking from a value perspective, considering that we have a few expiring contracts, we can sweeten the deal with Baby if needed be. Maybe just trade Williams instead of needed be. In all, Williams improving will enable us to make better trade packages to improve our team if the opportunity arises. Not interested in moving Baby for the sake of moving him.

[kozlodoev]

Funny how one person's opinion when not shared by another can be labeled "inaccuracies".

That's not funny in the least bit, when the opinion is, in fact, inacurate.

I have argued BBD is a poor rebounder, mediocre shooter, poor perimeter defender, solid to good passer, solid to good low post defender with the ability to play very good defense against huge centers at times like Shaq or Yao, poor post player, horrid shot blocker, good hustler.

And the said argument is, at least partially, incorrect. I don't know what games you've been watching last season, but Davis was much improved and was automatic from 15-18 feet after Garnett went down. There's ample statistical evidence to prove this.

You're also overrating his passing skills which, if nothing else, lack consistency.

[EJPLAYA]

10 pts, 10 boards, 50% shooting from the floor, 100% from the line, 2 assists and 2 blocked shots… Boy do I miss BBD...

[LarBrd33]

what i like about sheldon williams is that he proves my point about obese... he's extremely replaceable.  The collection of talent on this team makes any scrub big man look capable.

Point proven.

[footey]

Sheldon showed me a jumper that I did not realize he had. Looked confident, and has good form.   An argument could be made that he is about as effective as BBD from 15 feet away.  He continues to look good at the free throw line.

Baby clearly has better hands. 

Sheldon is clearly the better rebounder. 

This looks like a very good signing, and gives us more options, and helps us when our bigs get in foul trouble early (as was the case tonight) or if an injury occurs (BBD).

[footey]

BBD = Wally Pipp?

[KCattheStripe]

Sheldon showed me a jumper that I did not realize he had. Looked confident, and has good form.   An argument could be made that he is about as effective as BBD from 15 feet away. 

After one shot?

[Rondo_is_better]

He's a garbage time all star while BBD plays meaningful minutes.

Not really equatable.

Still loving Shelden's hustle, intensity, and excellent defensive rotations, though. Seems like a guy who maximizes every opportunity he's given.

TP to Shelden for another good night carrying the all-bench-because-we're-up-by-thirty unit.

[fairweatherfan]

We don't have to compare him to BBD or dump on one guy or the other to say that Shelden has been more than satisfactory in his role this year.  He was brought here as an insurance policy, and he's more than paying off so far.  That's what I like about him.

[nickagneta]

At this point....what's not to like?

[BudweiserCeltic]

At this point....what's not to like?

He's been solid overall. He has to improve his hands and boxing out. But, really good pickup by Ainge. For all the crap he got when Ainge signed him instead of Powe and during preseason, I'm quite glad he's shutting up most of the doubters.

[nickagneta]

At this point....what's not to like?

He's been solid overall. He has to improve his hands and boxing out. But, really good pickup by Ainge. For all the crap he got when Ainge signed him instead of Powe and during preseason, I'm quite glad he's shutting up most of the doubters.

He showed a hustle off the ball that really impressed me tonight. He seems to get the defense and switches very quickly getting in the way of players not expecting him there. He also has an excellent knack for knowing where the ball is going to bounce towards a upon missing. Some smart passes tonight and great movement without the ball on offense.

Oh and he has a nice 15 foot jumper and isn't afraid to take it. His hands are well below average for an NBA player though and he could have had 4 more points at least on remarkable passes to him from I think it was Rondo and KG but he could hold onto the ball to finish the play.

[Change]

At this point....what's not to like?

He's been solid overall. He has to improve his hands and boxing out. But, really good pickup by Ainge. For all the crap he got when Ainge signed him instead of Powe and during preseason, I'm quite glad he's shutting up most of the doubters.

He showed a hustle off the ball that really impressed me tonight. He seems to get the defense and switches very quickly getting in the way of players not expecting him there. He also has an excellent knack for knowing where the ball is going to bounce towards a upon missing. Some smart passes tonight and great movement without the ball on offense.

Oh and he has a nice 15 foot jumper and isn't afraid to take it. His hands are well below average for an NBA player though and he could have had 4 more points at least on remarkable passes to him from I think it was Rondo and KG but he could hold onto the ball to finish the play.

Pretty much I feel the same way, TP.

I think his hands can improve. I doubt he ever played with a greater passer like Rondo. Maybe some football drills could improve his hands.