What I like about Shelden Williams

[Birdbrain]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Boy people sure make a big deal about one game winning field goal… I had a couple of those in my younger days and I sure wish they had elevated me to the reputation that BBD has!

Right because that was the only thing he did. 49% shooting and 16 points during our playoff run doesn't add any weight. Get real.

As for clutch, he has already shown various instances of clutch performances through his young career. This isn't about a single play... I've been saying his clutch for some time now.

Williams on the other hand is a guy who has upside and unrealized potential that fills the role off the bench this team needs. It's about fitting the right pieces in there to be successful. What good is an outside shooting PF with the squad he'd be playing with. If an outside shot is taken I'd much rather have Sheed or House take it and quite honestly Williams shooting percentage suggests he'd be about as good at it as BBD.

So Daniels doesn't benefit from the spacing on the floor? Rondo doesn't either? Pierce? We have plenty of players that benefit from his skillset. His pretty good at making himself available also when our stars draw attention to themselves. He's does very good picks.

Davis has no upside? Some unrealized potential? Again something Davis has shown overall is improvement since he's arrived.

3.5 rebounds per game doesn't allow him to be considered a good offensive rebounder by any stretch considering at least a portion of those are defensive.

Since we're talking in rebounds per game perspective, let me put some perspective into it.

During the playoffs he grabbed 2.4 offensive rebounds per game. In April 3.4 offensive rebound per game. In March 2.1 offensive rebound per game. Overall not a large sample, but it was during this time that he started getting quality big minutes... starter/first big off the bench minutes.

To put it into perspective, that's between the top 30-40 rebounders type stats during that span in time.

I'll say this he's an inconsistent rebounder, and clearly not his strength, but again not as bad as you're making it out to be, particularly when he plays away from the basket so often... I would think it would make his offensive rebounding a bit more impressive... or should we discredit Dwight Howard's offensive rebounding because he's so tall and always plays near the basket, with a limited offensive game?

[EJPLAYA]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

[BudweiserCeltic]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

[Bankshot]

The BBD haters are never going to give up.  First, it was Powe was better and going to take his minutes, now Sheldon.  If we signed Mikki Moore, they would want him to take Baby's minutes too. lol

[BudweiserCeltic]

The BBD haters are never going to give up.  First, it was Powe was better and going to take his minutes, now Sheldon.  If we signed Mikki Moore, they would want him to take Baby's minutes too. lol

Well it's easy when Davis isn't around to shut them up lol, but I guess he's at fault over that.

[Fafnir]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one.

You're looking at just the short stint of games with which he played for the Kings I assume.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL15A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL14A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAC14A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAC13.HTM#pstats
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN12.HTM

Over his career he's a much worse inside shooter than BBD. He's also a worse jump shooter than Davis over his career. The only reason his eFG% is similar is that he takes more inside shots than BBD. He converts each individual type of shot at a worse rate. He also turns it over at a greater rate than BBD.

I've pointed this all out before. Williams is a much worse offensive player than BBD.

[Fafnir]

The BBD haters are never going to give up.  First, it was Powe was better and going to take his minutes, now Sheldon.  If we signed Mikki Moore, they would want him to take Baby's minutes too. lol

Yup.

In the end I think its much ado about nothing. They're all bench bigs who shouldn't be seeing more than 18 minutes or so. Well except Mikki, he shouldn't see any minutes.

[Chris]

The BBD haters are never going to give up.  First, it was Powe was better and going to take his minutes, now Sheldon.  If we signed Mikki Moore, they would want him to take Baby's minutes too. lol

Yup.

In the end I think its much ado about nothing. They're all bench bigs who shouldn't be seeing more than 18 minutes or so. Well except Mikki, he shouldn't see any minutes.

Exactly.  They all have strengths, and holes in their game, and it depends on the situation what a particular team needs. 

[EJPLAYA]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

[BudweiserCeltic]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

[ManUp]

Positives:
He has a solid understanding of our team defense, and does a solid job on the boards. The effort is always there when he's playing.

Negatives:
He has trouble anticipating, and catching passes leading to a lot of missed opportunities.

[EJPLAYA]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

[BudweiserCeltic]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

The only thing I've been arguing is that your portrayal of Baby is incorrect. His skillset and his impact on the game in particular. I could care less about your other arguments to tell you the truth. You're just spreading inaccuracies all over the place.

[EJPLAYA]

BBD's offensive rebounding stats are padded which makes his overall rebounding #'s even more pitiful for a PF since many of his offensive rebounds were off of his own missed followup's off the first one. Countless times he took 2-3 shots after an offensive rebound. That's great that he was able to have another attempt, but it's a lot easier for the person shooting to get that second and third board than the person trying to prevent him from scoring.

I don't think that anyone on here is naive enough to believe that BBD is a good rebounder or scorer in the low post though. This really ought to be about Williams looking more than capable to come in off the bench and help this team out when called upon. I think everyone is underestimating his outside shot though because he looks much better at it than people are giving him credit for. I for one think he brings as much to the table off the bench as BBD does just in different ways. Maybe he wouldn't be as seamless into the starting lineup like BBD was last year, however we can all agree that no one wants us to be in that situation anyway!

Padded stats.  I don't understand the concept.

Underestimating his outside shot.  You can't underestimate something that doesn't exist.

Considering BBD and Williams EFG% from 82 games is virtually identical I think you'd have to say what I have been saying all along. BBD is no where NEAR as good of an outside shooter as many on here would make him out to be.

My comments have been that Williams isn't that much worse an outside shooter than BBD, not that he is a great outside shooter. The stats back that statement up whether you'd like to admit it or not. They also show his inside EFG% is BETTER than BBD by a bit, so overall it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Williams is a better offensive player or at least as good of one. Therefore it is pretty easy to once again state that Williams may indeed bring more to the table since in addition to being a very similar offensive player, he is a ton better rebounder. The reason that everyone thinks he is so great is because he has an outgoing vibrant personality where Shelden is more of a blue collar "do your job and be quiet" type. Get over the love affair with BBD and give Shelden some props here!

Here's a bit of clutch measure:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Does 82game distinguish the improvement in Davis game throughout the year? I'd say that those numbers don't accurately depict what Davis is at the moment.

What Davis is at the moment is suspended. Williams is taking advantage of that by coming in and playing extremely well. If he continues to play this well BBD will likely have a hard time regaining his spot especially since he has drawn the ire of Wyc.

That's besides the point as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. It doesn't fit with your "story" so it is easier to ignore. You can't use the argument that it's the overall situation and intangibles that make BBD better but then ignore the guys actions off court that keep him from helping the team. BBD's great personality comes with a lot of drama as well that can be a distraction just as much as it can benefit his ability to play bigger than his skills actually allow. Just like the crying incident. For BBD its often as much about him as it is the team. I prefer someone who will show up, work his tail off, and keep quiet. At least from my bench role guys. When you are KG or PP  level you can bring in all that extra drama and get away with it.

Fact is that we are playing just as well without BBD on the floor as we were with him, so this really isn't that big of a deal.

The only thing I've been arguing is that your portrayal of Baby is incorrect. His skillset and his impact on the game in particular. I could care less about your other arguments to tell you the truth. You're just spreading inaccuracies all over the place.

Funny how one person's opinion when not shared by another can be labeled "inaccuracies". I have argued BBD is a poor rebounder, mediocre shooter, poor perimeter defender, solid to good passer, solid to good low post defender with the ability to play very good defense against huge centers at times like Shaq or Yao, poor post player, horrid shot blocker, good hustler. How on earth can you possibly say those are inaccuracies. Every single one of those is spot on and honest and shared by anyone being honest with themselves about his skill set. Its what just about every scouting report has said about him his entire career and the reasons he didn't get some big full MLE deal from another team in the offseason. If there are inaccuracies being thrown around it is by the BBD lovefest guys who refuse to admit the guys weaknesses.