So, now that we have Marquis--who's off the 12 man game roster?

[mgent]

And House is NOT a PG.  For the record.

thanks

even if I disagree about Scal

after 5 missed 3s hes done

I really don't see any of those guys getting more minutes than Scal.  We're more than likely gonna go with a 9 man rotation, so Scal and Tony are gonna get very little minutes anyway.  Walker, Giddens, and Williams are gonna get even less (aka none).

[hwangjini_1]

House is NOT a point guard. 

yes he is if doc says he is. he just may be not a good pg. 

[Jon]

House is NOT a point guard. 

yes he is if doc says he is. he just may be not a good pg. 

True.  Furthermore, I'd argue (though I've been against it for two years) that this team is good enough to play small stretches with two shooting guards. 

[Vermont Green]

Magic Johnson was not a center but he played it once in a championship game.  My point is that Eddie's natural (and most effective) position is SG in my opinion but he will be played at PG some also.  Daniels will be played at 3 positions including PG (maybe even more PG than House).  I see no problem with this.  It is kind of like debating whether Sheed is a center or PF.  It doesn't really matter since he will play some of both.

FWIW, Dennis Johnson was not a PG either and he was a starter.  That didn't seem to hurt that big 3.

[lon3lytoaster]

Small ball makes me really, really unhappy. At any time, really. Except that one time.

[TitleMaster]

Magic Johnson was not a center but he played it once in a championship game.

Magic was a beast, during that key game whereas House is a liability in moving the ball up the court. House is a catch and shoot fellow, and a darn good one at that. Unfortunately, we didn't retain Starbury and given his low salary requirements, I didn't see reason for not keeping him. He's a ball handler and distributor, not a shooter and I think we all know that. All and all, Sheed and House give us instant points off the bench, and therefore, Marbury doesn't have to get his mojo back to be a key contributor this time around.

[Jon]

Magic Johnson was not a center but he played it once in a championship game.

Magic was a beast, during that key game whereas House is a liability in moving the ball up the court. House is a catch and shoot fellow, and a darn good one at that. Unfortunately, we didn't retain Starbury and given his low salary requirements, I didn't see reason for not keeping him. He's a ball handler and distributor, not a shooter and I think we all know that. All and all, Sheed and House give us instant points off the bench, and therefore, Marbury doesn't have to get his mojo back to be a key contributor this time around.

True.  But in what situations is House really a liability?  During the regular season teams seldom full court press.  Moreover, if House's ballhandling did lose us a game in the regular season, it's not like it's going to keep us out of the playoffs. 

On top of all of that, given the minutes that Rondo, Allen, and Pierce are likely to play come playoff time when games actually matter, there's really only going to be PT for Daniels and a "backup PG."  So I really think it's a matter of House or another PG in the playoff rotation, not both. 

I'm OK with bumping House, but I question whether we'll find a backup PG good enough to do that at this point in the game.  Plus, for all the slack I've given House over the year, I am intrigued what lineup with him, Wallace, and the Big Three can do. 

Might a real backup PG be useful in a playoff game?  Sure.  But only if there's under two minutes in a close game and Rondo has fouled out.  And while I'd like to have that type of luxury, we could literally go an entire season and title run without that happening. 

[Who]

How many teams have a point guard who's capable of pressing the ball full court?

Because I don't see many out there who are capable of that ... and even fewer who'll actually attempt to use the press.

[Jon]

How many teams have a point guard who's capable of pressing the ball full court?

Because I don't see many out there who are capable of that ... and even fewer who'll actually attempt to use the press.

Exactly.  And how many times will it happen when we can't just bring Rondo back in and stop them from doing it.  Or just give the ball to Ray or Paul and let them bring it up against whoever is defending them who won't be used to pressing the ball full court?  Or KG could even do it.  How many opposing 4s could actually guard him the whole court? 

[mgent]

It is kind of like debating whether Sheed is a center or PF.  It doesn't really matter since he will play some of both.

That's a little different because those roles are a lot of times interchangable depending on the skill-sets on your team, and Rasheed happens to have the skills and size to play both positions.  Which position he will play at will depend a lot on defensive match-ups.
When it comes to Eddie House, he doesn't even have the offensive ability to play the PG position, IE: he's not a primary ball handler.
He CAN play the position, but the fact is he's gonna become way less effective.  Everyone loves having Eddie on the court because he knocks down shots like nothing, but he's not gonna be doing that if we play him at PG.  Just having him on the court is not enough.

[gar]

You could argue that it was not the lack of a pure PG that hurt the second unit. It was the lack offensive weapons and lack of defensive cohesion. Daniels and Sheed should help that. Marbury was able to get House open; but with Daniels, Sheed and BBD on the floor that will be less of a problem. Before Powe was injured you could argue that Eddie and the second unit were able to help win a lot of games.

[slamtheking]

Having read the above feedback, I'm still not seeing anyone making the case for Walker not sitting in street clothes.  I'd like to see TA and Scal moved but until that time, no way Doc sits them in favor of Walker or Giddens.  TA/Scal could actually see minutes if dressed for the game whereas neither Walker nor Giddens will (unless both Ray and PP suffer crippling injuries for the rest of a game).

I don't see Williams sitting unless the sign a vet PG instead of Hudson.

It's as simple as this; Bill Walker is really the closest thing we have to a real back up small forward for Pierce. You could argue Daniels, sure but he's a skinny guy who's bound to get beat up a lot at that position. Yes, Walker is a little short for the three, but he's built like a tank. A tank with springs and hydrolics in the treads.

Obviously he has a lot of flaws and he's a young, inexperienced player but at this point in time he has more value than Tony, and it's hard to argue that if Bill was getting similar minutes he wouldn't be doing similar things out there.

I agree Walker's the closest we have to someone big enough and quick enough to play SF.  I just don't see Doc putting him on the active roster-->not due to Walker's inability to play but due to Doc's preferences for vets over youth.  I think Walker would bring energy to the game the team hasn't had in a while.  Even in the event he was on the active game roster, he wouldn't see the court unless it's a blowout or Ray AND PP went down with injuries.  If only PP or Ray went down, Doc would play Daniels with the other one and mix House in to cover the backup two (sliding Daniels to the SF and bringing Rondo back in to rest the healthy Ray/PP).

[jambr380]

Having read the above feedback, I'm still not seeing anyone making the case for Walker not sitting in street clothes.  I'd like to see TA and Scal moved but until that time, no way Doc sits them in favor of Walker or Giddens.  TA/Scal could actually see minutes if dressed for the game whereas neither Walker nor Giddens will (unless both Ray and PP suffer crippling injuries for the rest of a game).

I don't see Williams sitting unless the sign a vet PG instead of Hudson.

It's as simple as this; Bill Walker is really the closest thing we have to a real back up small forward for Pierce. You could argue Daniels, sure but he's a skinny guy who's bound to get beat up a lot at that position. Yes, Walker is a little short for the three, but he's built like a tank. A tank with springs and hydrolics in the treads.

Obviously he has a lot of flaws and he's a young, inexperienced player but at this point in time he has more value than Tony, and it's hard to argue that if Bill was getting similar minutes he wouldn't be doing similar things out there.

I agree. Unless the team is merely trying to showcase TA for a trade (and I think that ship has probably sailed), I really don't see the reasoning in playing TA over Walker. It is possible they will start the season out with Walker in Portland, just to get him the extra playing time, but soon he should be back in Boston, playing some occasional minutes. At this point in their careers, Walker is no worse than TA and definitely has a lot more potential for the future. Hopefully the Cs can find a taker for TA and he can rejuvenate his career some place else, because it just doesn't seem like it is going to happen here...

[billysan]

Having read the above feedback, I'm still not seeing anyone making the case for Walker not sitting in street clothes.  I'd like to see TA and Scal moved but until that time, no way Doc sits them in favor of Walker or Giddens.  TA/Scal could actually see minutes if dressed for the game whereas neither Walker nor Giddens will (unless both Ray and PP suffer crippling injuries for the rest of a game).

I don't see Williams sitting unless the sign a vet PG instead of Hudson.

It's as simple as this; Bill Walker is really the closest thing we have to a real back up small forward for Pierce. You could argue Daniels, sure but he's a skinny guy who's bound to get beat up a lot at that position. Yes, Walker is a little short for the three, but he's built like a tank. A tank with springs and hydrolics in the treads.

Obviously he has a lot of flaws and he's a young, inexperienced player but at this point in time he has more value than Tony, and it's hard to argue that if Bill was getting similar minutes he wouldn't be doing similar things out there.

I agree. Unless the team is merely trying to showcase TA for a trade (and I think that ship has probably sailed), I really don't see the reasoning in playing TA over Walker. It is possible they will start the season out with Walker in Portland, just to get him the extra playing time, but soon he should be back in Boston, playing some occasional minutes. At this point in their careers, Walker is no worse than TA and definitely has a lot more potential for the future. Hopefully the Cs can find a taker for TA and he can rejuvenate his career some place else, because it just doesn't seem like it is going to happen here...

Good points about Doc playing veterans over youth. This has been a double edged sword for us in the past. Tony Allen being the one to most recently benefit last season.

I think with a season under his belt and some hard work in the off season, Bill Walker may be a pleasant surprise come training camp. If he performs well and shows Doc he has earned the trust of the starters, I think that will be the key to his future. They will trust him if he plays within the system and shows he can be where he is supposed to be defensively and not be an offensive liability.

Pounding the ball and turning it over, missed assignments is not a part of his game that I have seen. I think Walker 'gets it' with regard to his role on this team and what it will take to become a bigger part of the picture. He realizes he needs to play defense and rebound first and foremost, scoring as the game allows the opportunity.

Giddens, not so much. He is still trying to be a scorer IMO based on what I saw in D league footage last season. In fairness, that may be what he was asked to do by the Utah staff.

I think there is an excellent chance for Bill Walker to make the 12 man roster and play 10mpg this season. All he needs to do is prove he is a bigger asset than Tony Allen. This is mostly a mental thing IMO. He can do it by minimizing his on the court mistakes, something Tony hasnt been able to do.

Nothing would make me happier than to see both Walker and Giddens on the roster and playing a few minutes per game, even if mostly in blowouts. This will mean we have a tremendous season ahead of us for me. There is plenty of room for Scal or Williams and Tony in suits on the bench with Lester in the D league.

[mgent]

Having read the above feedback, I'm still not seeing anyone making the case for Walker not sitting in street clothes.  I'd like to see TA and Scal moved but until that time, no way Doc sits them in favor of Walker or Giddens.  TA/Scal could actually see minutes if dressed for the game whereas neither Walker nor Giddens will (unless both Ray and PP suffer crippling injuries for the rest of a game).

I don't see Williams sitting unless the sign a vet PG instead of Hudson.

It's as simple as this; Bill Walker is really the closest thing we have to a real back up small forward for Pierce. You could argue Daniels, sure but he's a skinny guy who's bound to get beat up a lot at that position. Yes, Walker is a little short for the three, but he's built like a tank. A tank with springs and hydrolics in the treads.

Obviously he has a lot of flaws and he's a young, inexperienced player but at this point in time he has more value than Tony, and it's hard to argue that if Bill was getting similar minutes he wouldn't be doing similar things out there.

I agree. Unless the team is merely trying to showcase TA for a trade (and I think that ship has probably sailed), I really don't see the reasoning in playing TA over Walker. It is possible they will start the season out with Walker in Portland, just to get him the extra playing time, but soon he should be back in Boston, playing some occasional minutes. At this point in their careers, Walker is no worse than TA and definitely has a lot more potential for the future. Hopefully the Cs can find a taker for TA and he can rejuvenate his career some place else, because it just doesn't seem like it is going to happen here...

 
Why has that ship sailed?  If Tony can prove he's better than Walker, then why not play him while we have him?  Hopefully then he'll be worth more when we decide to trade him.