Lucky17's Yahoo! FBB Points League: 2011-12 season: Draft Monday, Oct 24, noon

[The Walker Wiggle]

Perhaps the better place for this is on the Yahoo board once we get loaded up there -- esp. since some other GMs aren't on here.

re: TANKING -- i believe someone suggested (maybe for the h2h league) that there be either a lottery for the bottom, say, 10 teams.

just a thought. i think especially in the points league there should be some sort of disincentive for teams to just let their rosters rot.

I don't know if it will disincentivize (?) tanking, but it may mitigate the chances of benefiting from it.

10 seems a bit much, though. That's half the league. Or is that the idea?

That was me. In H2H, I'd even go so far as to include all twelve teams that miss the playoffs. The same could work in Points League as well considering the long odds involved in jumping up from the 8th, 9th, 10th, etc. pick to the 1st.

8. 2.8%
9. 1.7%
10. 1.1%

And so on. Although I'd agree with you Lucky that it's less of a deterrent, more a mitigating factor. I'd even be in favor of going to a even odds lottery system. But I'm in the minority there.

GC, out of curiosity, who had the one team to finish in the top 10 and below the 850 game threshold?

[hpantazo]

Perhaps the better place for this is on the Yahoo board once we get loaded up there -- esp. since some other GMs aren't on here.

re: TANKING -- i believe someone suggested (maybe for the h2h league) that there be either a lottery for the bottom, say, 10 teams.

just a thought. i think especially in the points league there should be some sort of disincentive for teams to just let their rosters rot.

I don't know if it will disincentivize (?) tanking, but it may mitigate the chances of benefiting from it.

10 seems a bit much, though. That's half the league. Or is that the idea?

I threw out the lottery b/c i think someone else suggested it. But there is still some advantage to tanking. So i don't think it's really the best option in a league with max. game played totals.

I think the best option is penalizing teams draft spots for game totals under the 902 total. IIRC the proposed "equation" was do away with the lottery but teams lose 1 draft spot for being 50 games under the 902 total and one more per each 10 games after that.

This penalizes ALL owners for being inactive in the league, not just the ones at the bottom. (though only 1 team in the top 10 finished >850 games; maybe it makes sense to only penalize teams in, say, the bottom 10)

And more importantly teams that have legitimately bad rosters but are active aren't penalized for not having given up.

here's how the bottom 10 teams game totals ended up (20-11)

20. 810 (would have lost 5 draft spots)
19. 798 (-6 draft spots)
18. 864 (would have ended up w/ #1 pick)
17. 798 (-6 draft spots)
16. 752 (-10 draft spots)
15. 839 (-1 draft spot)
14. 790 (-7 draft spot)
13. 767 (-9 drft spot)
12. 904 (no loss)
11. 856 (no loss of spot)

I think the draft order would have been

1. 18
2. 20
3. 15
4. 17
5. 19
6. 12
7. 11
8. 14
9. 16
10. 13

You can see this both penalizes inactive teams, but also rewards GMs who are active but who have a bad team. I'd argue #18 above DESERVES the #1 pick more than a lottery winner b/c he at least kept playing all year.

It's not perfect, teams could still just play bad players, but that's on them. If they're more active, they're more willing to maybe load up on prospects, deal producing players to teams in the hunt, etc.

another option i think that was floated was to figure out the avg. score per player (i.e. all points in the league DIV by all games played) and assign that to each team under, say, 850 to bring all teams up to a point total based on 850 games. My guess is this would produce similar results.

(i think its worth allowing some wiggle room for injuries, etc. But not too much. Just like in the real NBA if your players get hurt you still have to play a bench).

I agree with the games total option. It's much better than any type of lottery, and keeping gm's active is the main goal I think.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Perhaps the better place for this is on the Yahoo board once we get loaded up there -- esp. since some other GMs aren't on here.

re: TANKING -- i believe someone suggested (maybe for the h2h league) that there be either a lottery for the bottom, say, 10 teams.

just a thought. i think especially in the points league there should be some sort of disincentive for teams to just let their rosters rot.

I don't know if it will disincentivize (?) tanking, but it may mitigate the chances of benefiting from it.

10 seems a bit much, though. That's half the league. Or is that the idea?

That was me. In H2H, I'd even go so far as to include all twelve teams that miss the playoffs. The same could work in Points League as well considering the long odds involved in jumping up from the 8th, 9th, 10th, etc. pick to the 1st.

8. 2.8%
9. 1.7%
10. 1.1%

And so on. Although I'd agree with you Lucky that it's less of a deterrent, more a mitigating factor. I'd even be in favor of going to a even odds lottery system. But I'm in the minority there.

GC, out of curiosity, who had the one team to finish in the top 10 and below the 850 game threshold?

It was Team CelticinOrlando which i believe is the team that Hpantazo took over.


I 2nd Hpantazo's comments above that the goal is to keep GMs active

IMO, a lottery in Pts league doesnt' really ensure that at all, whereas an active penalty/disincentive for inactivity might.

[hpantazo]

Don't agree with all your assessments Hpantazo, but I'll give you TPs from now till the cows come home for your conviction. That's what our league needs!!

thanks GC. Not too many people ever agree with my assessments, but at least that allows me to make some moves!

[Gainesville Celtic]

Don't agree with all your assessments Hpantazo, but I'll give you TPs from now till the cows come home for your conviction. That's what our league needs!!

thanks GC. Not too many people ever agree with my assessments, but at least that allows me to make some moves!

haha, yeah that always helps. the main thing i was referring to was that "gooden sucks..." I actually think he's kinda underated. A solid 14/9 guy with good percentages is not too shabby.

I also regret a little dealing Pierce, but (a) am glad he found a good home  and (b) he just didn't fit with my org. plan in this league.

[yall hate]

I think I disagree with the comments re an approach for dealing with inactivity.  I am going to heap responsibility on Lucky/the active members of the league, but I think common sense can rule here without having set procedure.  if someone is benching players, it will be painfully obvious.  it can then be dealt with with the commissioner enforcing penalties (loss of a draft spot, etc).  but to go based on games played ignores the reality that sometimes injuries strike...in crazy amounts.  and I dont think it is fair to say to someone, you need to drop x injured player and replace him with that scrub just so you can get a game played checked off. 

[Gainesville Celtic]

I think I disagree with the comments re an approach for dealing with inactivity.  I am going to heap responsibility on Lucky/the active members of the league, but I think common sense can rule here without having set procedure.  if someone is benching players, it will be painfully obvious.  it can then be dealt with with the commissioner enforcing penalties (loss of a draft spot, etc).  but to go based on games played ignores the reality that sometimes injuries strike...in crazy amounts.  and I dont think it is fair to say to someone, you need to drop x injured player and replace him with that scrub just so you can get a game played checked off. 

It's true that sometimes injuries hit --- i lost major games from Biedrins, Kirilenko, Nate Robinson, etc last year -- but that's why we have benches.

Even a team that loses 3-5 starters should be able to sub in guys on their bench for them. It's that GMs decision if they want to drop guys due to injury, but with 11 starting positions and 16 man rosters that's hardly the only option.

I didn't/wouldn't drop Biedrins b/c he was hurt, but i did go out and make a bunch of deals that eventually netted me Ibaka, Chandler and Haslem in exchange for the "depth" at the wing postiion i had. Did those 3 perform at Biedrins' level? NO, but at least I worked at it. (And surely not every decision i made was a good one --- i dropped Robin Lopez, traded D.Blair, etc)

the team i inherited was BAD. when i started i was in line for the 4th or 5th pick.... and b/c I was active ended up with the 11th pick. But i also felt liek there was a ceiling b/c other GMs at the bottom had checked out --- weren't willing to move talent that was sitting there unused.

Maybe I should drop it, that way i can add players like Marcus Thronton, Beaubois and Shawn Livingston off the waiver wire again 

[Lucky17]

I think I disagree with the comments re an approach for dealing with inactivity.  I am going to heap responsibility on Lucky/the active members of the league, but I think common sense can rule here without having set procedure.  if someone is benching players, it will be painfully obvious.  it can then be dealt with with the commissioner enforcing penalties (loss of a draft spot, etc).  but to go based on games played ignores the reality that sometimes injuries strike...in crazy amounts.  and I dont think it is fair to say to someone, you need to drop x injured player and replace him with that scrub just so you can get a game played checked off. 

It was painfully obvious last year, but we had no set guidelines, parameters, or penalties, so there was nothing that could be done.

This is why I feel we need to define what constitutes tanking (beyond "I know it when I see it"), and what the penalties for it should be.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I think I disagree with the comments re an approach for dealing with inactivity.  I am going to heap responsibility on Lucky/the active members of the league, but I think common sense can rule here without having set procedure.  if someone is benching players, it will be painfully obvious.  it can then be dealt with with the commissioner enforcing penalties (loss of a draft spot, etc).  but to go based on games played ignores the reality that sometimes injuries strike...in crazy amounts.  and I dont think it is fair to say to someone, you need to drop x injured player and replace him with that scrub just so you can get a game played checked off. 

It was painfully obvious last year, but we had no set guidelines, parameters, or penalties, so there was nothing that could be done.

This is why I feel we need to define what constitutes tanking (beyond "I know it when I see it"), and what the penalties for it should be.

right, i don't want to put it all on Lucky, b/c then (a) he has to pay more attention/do more during the season and (b) it's subjective.

the other problem thing is i see it as a whole season thing, it's tricky to evaulate projected game totals in the first 1/2 of the season....

if your star gets hurt early in the season you sit him, racking up some DNPs, with the hope he can return later and/or you can make those games up with a future acquisition or rookies developing later in the year.... you gamble a bit. That's differnent than at the end of the season a guy goes down or you just sit someone to keep your total points low.

the subjective end of it too came out last year.... there was a debate last year where one GM was (rightfully) pointed out another for sitting a star.

but the team with the star had reached their point game total limits in most other positions, whereas the GM pointing out the sitting was way behind in many positions.

[celtsrp33]

Taking offers for:

Eric Bledsoe
Darrington Hobson
Chris Hunter
Johan Petro
Matt Barnes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Anthony Parker
Delonte West

Looking to move 3 or 4 of these guys for 1 or 2 in return.  Let me know what you can offer.  Willing to sell low on a few of them. 

[celtsrp33]

Taking offers for:

Eric Bledsoe
Darrington Hobson
Chris Hunter
Johan Petro
Matt Barnes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Anthony Parker
Delonte West

Looking to move 3 or 4 of these guys for 1 or 2 in return.  Let me know what you can offer.  Willing to sell low on a few of them. 

Anyone?

[Lucky17]

I'll look at my roster, Bacon, although I too need to consolidate.

I am still waiting on Rebus, BBallTim, and The Walker Wiggle to sign into the league.

[Lucky17]

If you are reading this, and would like to join this league, please send me a PM.

We may have as many as three teams that could need replacement GMs.

[Gomesfan]

16 man roster:

Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Marc Gasol
Vince Carter
J.J. Hickson
Carlos Delfino    
Keith Bogan  
Shannon Brown
DeMarre Carroll
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Kyle Lowry      
Mickael Pietrus    
Darius Songaila    
Peja Stojakovic
Beno Udrih
Craig  Brackins

Dropping:

Bobby Brown  
Nemanja Bjelica
Danta Cunningham
Joe Alexander

[celtsrp33]

Looking to move Bledsoe, Chris Hunter, Petro, Hobson, Barnes.  Would like to package 2 or 3 of them for 1 guy.  Would also consider picks.  Let me know if you're interested.