Marquis Daniels (non-)update

[Champzilla]

I'm taking down my post, didn't mean to cause trouble just reporting a post real gm just made, sorry.

[Chris]

Do these guys just copy and paste the same story every two weeks, just to put something out there, or are they actually believing what it coming out of their "sources".  I would be shocked if Daniels signs the BAE this week, or even in the next 3 weeks.  He will be traded when Danny gets tired of holding out, and throws some cash at Chris Wallace (I am sure they have a prearranged deal on the table)...but I am sure there is no timetable on that.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

[JSD]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Like a backup PG? BTW, Bird refused TA didn't he?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Like a backup PG? BTW, Bird refused TA didn't he?

We would not be trading TA to Indiana. Not concerned about the backup PG.

[Roy Hobbs]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Yeah, ultimately, Tony + $2.6 million should get it done.  That pays Tony's salary, and give Indiana an extra $100k just to cut Tony, if they're so inclined.

For the Celtics, it would make sense, as follows:

Salary if the team keeps Tony, signs Daniels:

$2.5 million salary for Tony
$2.5 million luxury tax payment for Tony
$1.99 million salary for Daniels
$1.99 million luxury tax payment for Daniels
----------------------------------------------
$8.98 million total payment

Salary if the team trades Tony, signs Daniels:

$2.6 million cash to Indiana
$2.75 million salary (estimated) for Daniels
$2.75 million luxury tax for Daniels
----------------------------------------------
$8.1 million total

So, the team saves $880,000 under than scenario.  Obviously, if Daniels signs for more, that figure goes down, and if he signs for less, it goes up.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Why do people here value Walker so much?  Daniels has proven he can play in this league and put up respectable numbers.  There's a reason the pacers don't want Tony Allen, and it's for many of the same reasons that we're trying to dump him here.  If trading Walker gets us a proven player that can fill the role(s) needed, then I'm all for it.  Daniels will get paid what he's worth, and it's likely to be more than the LLE... regardless of Bill Walker.

[the_Bird]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Yeah, ultimately, Tony + $2.6 million should get it done.  That pays Tony's salary, and give Indiana an extra $100k just to cut Tony, if they're so inclined.

For the Celtics, it would make sense, as follows:

Salary if the team keeps Tony, signs Daniels:

$2.5 million salary for Tony
$2.5 million luxury tax payment for Tony
$1.99 million salary for Daniels
$1.99 million luxury tax payment for Daniels
----------------------------------------------
$8.98 million total payment

Salary if the team trades Tony, signs Daniels:

$2.6 million cash to Indiana
$2.75 million salary (estimated) for Daniels
$2.75 million luxury tax for Daniels
----------------------------------------------
$8.1 million total

So, the team saves $880,000 under than scenario.  Obviously, if Daniels signs for more, that figure goes down, and if he signs for less, it goes up.

Side benefit of that giving us 13 players under contract instead of 14.  We can then go out and sign a 3rd string PG (if management is so inclined) and still leave the opportunity for Hudson to impress in camp and make the squad.  If Danny wants to extend a few camp invites (Swift or whoever), there's room for someone to earn their way onto the roster.

Or, just more flexibility for future trades than might involve Scal and/or one of the kids (could take back an additional player if necessary).  They're trying desperately to do this signing via a S&T to keep from paying tax on a guy they don't want, to preserve the LLE for any future signings they might want to do (or for next year), and to free up that roster spot. 

[the_Bird]

Actually, just thought of something.

If we trade TA to Indiana, even if we send over $2.5M to pay his salary and they immediately cut him, he'll still be on their books for luxury tax purposes, right?  Not sure if they're a taxpayer, but I know they're close. 

Does that mean that this trade NEEDS to be done via a team like Memphis, that's under the cap and in no danger of paying tax?  Give them $$ or a 2nd round pick along with TA, take back a protected 2nd rounder (maybe with a wink-wink/nudge-nudge that we'll give it back to them), get the trade exemption and make a second deal with  Indy. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Why do people here value Walker so much?  Daniels has proven he can play in this league and put up respectable numbers.  There's a reason the pacers don't want Tony Allen, and it's for many of the same reasons that we're trying to dump him here.  If trading Walker gets us a proven player that can fill the role(s) needed, then I'm all for it.  Daniels will get paid what he's worth, and it's likely to be more than the LLE... regardless of Bill Walker.

What does this have to do with anything? I know what Daniels can do, and this isn't about giving up Walker in order to be able to land Daniels. That's not the only choice here.

We can just outright sign Daniels, we don't need to give up anything to land him. If he were not willing to sign for us, then sure go ahead, make the move. But circumstances are different... he's willing to sign for us this year, so we can use our assets elsewhere to get other things of value.

If it's only Tony we're giving up, then quite awesome. If it's Walker, I'd be quite curious as to what type of contract we're offering and at what length. But I'd rather keep him (and Giddens who I preffer), and see what other opportunities arise.

Actually, just thought of something.

If we trade TA to Indiana, even if we send over $2.5M to pay his salary and they immediately cut him, he'll still be on their books for luxury tax purposes, right?  Not sure if they're a taxpayer, but I know they're close. 

Does that mean that this trade NEEDS to be done via a team like Memphis, that's under the cap and in no danger of paying tax?  Give them $$ or a 2nd round pick along with TA, take back a protected 2nd rounder (maybe with a wink-wink/nudge-nudge that we'll give it back to them), get the trade exemption and make a second deal with  Indy. 

That's the idea.

[Jon]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Why do people here value Walker so much?  Daniels has proven he can play in this league and put up respectable numbers.  There's a reason the pacers don't want Tony Allen, and it's for many of the same reasons that we're trying to dump him here.  If trading Walker gets us a proven player that can fill the role(s) needed, then I'm all for it.  Daniels will get paid what he's worth, and it's likely to be more than the LLE... regardless of Bill Walker.

I agree.  While I don't want to trade Walker or Giddens, if that is what needs to be done to obtain Daniels, then so be it.  The upside for both is probably starters in this league.  The downside is that they both could be out of the league in a couple of years.  But even more importantly, where does either player fit in for the short or even long term?

If Daniels comes aboard, neither will be needed in the short term for significant minutes since he'll consume most of the backup 2/3 minutes.  

Long term, I don't know.  If 3 years from now the Big Three are gone and Rondo and Perkins remain, Walker or Giddens might be a nice fit, but are they really that irreplaceable?  Quality wings are probably the easiest things to come across in the NBA.  

Again, I'd like to keep them.  But if one has to go, so be it.  

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Why do people here value Walker so much?  Daniels has proven he can play in this league and put up respectable numbers.  There's a reason the pacers don't want Tony Allen, and it's for many of the same reasons that we're trying to dump him here.  If trading Walker gets us a proven player that can fill the role(s) needed, then I'm all for it.  Daniels will get paid what he's worth, and it's likely to be more than the LLE... regardless of Bill Walker.

I agree.  While I don't want to trade Walker or Giddens, if that is what needs to be done to obtain Daniels, then so be it.  The upside for both is probably starters in this league.  The downside is that they both could be out of the league in a couple of years.  But even more importantly, where does either player fit in for the short or even long term?

If Daniels comes aboard, neither will be needed in the short term for significant minutes since he'll consume most of the backup 2/3 minutes.  

Long term, I don't know.  If 3 years from now the Big Three are gone and Rondo and Perkins remain, Walker or Giddens might be a nice fit, but are they really that irreplaceable?  Quality wings are probably the easiest things to come across in the NBA.  

Again, I'd like to keep them.  But if one has to go, so be it.  

I have no problem with moving one or both of Walker and Giddens if the right trade comes along. But considering that we don't need them to obtain Daniels, I think the smarter thing to do is to keep them for future use.

There'll be plenty of opportunities to move them if needed me, and probably for something of more value than Daniels... who we can just sign if a TA deal doesn't come along.

In TA, Scal, Walker, Giddens we have about 7.7 million in expiring contracts, which includes prospects. That should be a package that should interest plenty of teams. We also have House who is expiring. All moveable parts. The team should have plenty of opportunities to turn that into something of good use/value for us if there's interest to move them at all. Just throwing two names out there, but would Hinrich be a possibility? A Gerald Wallace?

The other side of it is, who do we sign with our extra roster spot? That could either improve our situation, or make it worse if we sign a subpar player that due to his experience Doc might be compelled to play him.

[Roy Hobbs]

Actually, just thought of something.

If we trade TA to Indiana, even if we send over $2.5M to pay his salary and they immediately cut him, he'll still be on their books for luxury tax purposes, right?  Not sure if they're a taxpayer, but I know they're close.  

I think they're between $4 and $5 million under, so they should be okay.  They may want to preserve some flexibility, though, in case they take back salary in a future trade.  In that case, it makes sense to get Memphis, OKC, or Sacramento involved.  In fact, Sacramento did this exact same thing for us twice last season, so they may be okay with it again.

[Jon]

Tony and cash should do it. As I've said before, if we trade Walker or Giddens, I'd rather just get Daniels for the LLE and just try to move Tony and Scal later on in the year for something of value.

Why do people here value Walker so much?  Daniels has proven he can play in this league and put up respectable numbers.  There's a reason the pacers don't want Tony Allen, and it's for many of the same reasons that we're trying to dump him here.  If trading Walker gets us a proven player that can fill the role(s) needed, then I'm all for it.  Daniels will get paid what he's worth, and it's likely to be more than the LLE... regardless of Bill Walker.

I agree.  While I don't want to trade Walker or Giddens, if that is what needs to be done to obtain Daniels, then so be it.  The upside for both is probably starters in this league.  The downside is that they both could be out of the league in a couple of years.  But even more importantly, where does either player fit in for the short or even long term?

If Daniels comes aboard, neither will be needed in the short term for significant minutes since he'll consume most of the backup 2/3 minutes.  

Long term, I don't know.  If 3 years from now the Big Three are gone and Rondo and Perkins remain, Walker or Giddens might be a nice fit, but are they really that irreplaceable?  Quality wings are probably the easiest things to come across in the NBA.  

Again, I'd like to keep them.  But if one has to go, so be it.  

I have no problem with moving one or both of Walker and Giddens if the right trade comes along. But considering that we don't need them to obtain Daniels, I think the smarter thing to do is to keep them for future use.

There'll be plenty of opportunities to move them if needed me, and probably for something of more value than Daniels... who we can just sign if a TA deal doesn't come along.

In TA, Scal, Walker, Giddens we have about 7.7 million in expiring contracts, which includes prospects. That should be a package that should interest plenty of teams. We also have House who is expiring. All moveable parts. The team should have plenty of opportunities to turn that into something of good use/value for us if there's interest to move them at all. Just throwing two names out there, but would Hinrich be a possibility? A Gerald Wallace?

The other side of it is, who do we sign with our extra roster spot? That could either improve our situation, or make it worse if we sign a subpar player that due to his experience Doc might be compelled to play him.

Well, we don't really know if we do need to trade them or not.  If Daniels was really so amenable to signing the LLE, I think he would have done so already. 

Again, I agree with you that I'd much rather see them acquire Daniels without giving up one of them; however, if they need to, I'm all for it. 

As for saving up salary to trade later, I wouldn't necessarily count on that.  I'm not entirely convinced that the Celtics brass doesn't want to see some of those contracts just flat out expire.  I believe they will extend Ray Allen next summer, and while it'll be less than what he's at now, when you add what likely will be a new contract for Rondo, they'll be back up where they were this year again. 

[RAcker]

First, I don't see how this thread is a real "update". 

Secondly, Indiana is NOT taking on TA.  If they were, this would be done by now.  Larry does NOT want TA and is obviously hoping for some other resolution.  Danny is just being patien to see if there is any way to move TA through some 3rd team perhaps.  TA will NOT be in Indiana.