Michael Vick

[crownsy]

dogs can love. there's a difference.i can't rap my mind around anyone torturing and killing a dog. i would wonder if that person was a potential serial killer or has fantasies of killing.i just can't understand it. it's so sick.

not to sound like a jerk, because i love my dog to, but what proof do you have that dogs are more or less capable of emotion than say, a cow?

because from what i can see, scientifically, there's no such proof.

[crownsy]

There is a difference between killing animals for food (or being the recipient of animals slaughtered for food) and killing animals for pure recreation.  There is also a difference between using your own hands to kill an animal and being layers removed from the killing either by using a distance weapon or by having another person do the killing.  It's no small deal to kill a substantial vibrant animal with your own hands -- especially if it is pleasurable or fulfilling in some way.  However, we really don't know the direct relationship between Vick and the heinous dog killings that were reported. He may have done the deeds himself or instructed others to kill the animals.  He also may have reluctantly killed the animals in the name of his 'business' rather than for the purpose of gaining sadistic joy from the killings.  We really don't know his state of mind throughout the timeframe in which he engaged in dog-fighting and dog abuse.  We do know that dog-fighting is very difficult to watch and impossible to condone if you are raised in a culture in which animal fighting is taboo.  I believe I'd be sickened by it, however, I do recall some 25 years ago being at a resort in Santa Domingo at which cock fights were a daily ritual with locals exclaiming great joy and excitement at the event. 

I can't claim to know what was in Vick's heart or head during his dog-fighting days -- I don't know if he was ever conflicted morally or if he purely relished in the raw violence.  Who knows if he began reluctantly and gradually was de-sensitized to it.  All I can surmise is that he couldn't stop himself from getting deeper and deeper into a violent and illegal activity.  It cost him greatly by most people's standards in cultural realms that matter a great deal to most Americans: reputation, freedom, and money.  His fame also became infamy. 

I choose to accept that a person can make values changes and can grow and learn.  Vick paid for his choices and now is legally free. The commisioner has made a decision to allow him to play and now its up to an owner to choose to offer Vick a chance.  If he gets the chance, I am hoping he makes the best of it. 

so under this doctrine that animals killed for anything other than food is tourter and should be punished above and beyond people killing each other because they can't defend themselves, hunters should be held accountable to the same penalties as vick?

[greg683x]

my point was that no one would have ever heard or cared about the fact that he was carrying a gun FOR PROTECTION had he not shot him self in the leg. He wasnt planning on killing anyone unless they attacked him. Vick unprovingly killed hundreds of dogs. So the fact that Plaxico will most likely get more jail time than Vick is Redonkulous.

I care. I don't want people carrying cannons around their waists illegally with the safety off just looking for a reason to blow someone's face off.

Look, I'm sure you think your NFL role models are so "hard" because they're strapped but I can do without the whole "DEATH AT NIGHTCLUB" headline.

NFL Role Models acting HARD?  What a steriotypical statement.  And you can do without the "Death at NightClub Headline."

Thats funny b/c Im sure if you asked a lot of NFL Players, ones who even dont all fall into your steriotypical thug/hard category, theyd say they could do without all these headlines....

"Sean Taylor shot and killed in attempted robbery"

"Steve Smith (BURRESS TEAMMATE) Robbed at Gunpoint"

"Antoine Walker Robbed at Gunpoint"

"Vernon Forest shot and killed in attempted Robbery"

"Dunta Robinson from Texans robbed at gunpoint"

"Steelers first rounder Mendenhall robbed in Chicago"

Now I do agree that Burress is stupid and he deserves what he has coming to him.  However, he has every right to have that gun as long as its registered and hes not endangering lives with it.  Since it wasnt registered and he was carrying it in sweatpants with the safety off, then yes he deserves to be punished.  However to widely generlize NFL players like theyre these 'strapped' gun carrying thugs that could pop a cap in someone at any minute is being completely ignorant about a problem thats been rapidly growing players in professional sports, which is they are targets for theives.

Read what I said again.

I never said that NFL players are for the killing/burglarizing of other people.

I never said that all NFL players are strapped all I said is that I don't want thugs in nightclubs just looking for fights/trouble with ILLEGAL weapons.

Do you have any idea why a person may have an unlicensed weapon??

This is so typical though.

People will make excuses for these guys saying:
"HE WAS JUST CARRYING IT FOR PROTECTION!!"

Then why isn't it registered?

Somehow its become socially acceptable in african american culture to carry an illegal weapon.........."for protection" and its just flat out wrong.

I did read what you said.  You said Im sure you think your NFL players are so 'hard' because theyre strapped but I can do without the Death at Nightclub headline.
You also said in the same quotation that you dont want people carrying around their cannons looking for a reason to blow someones head off.  How does that not steriotype all NFL players like theyre gun toting thugs, b/c thats exactly what you did.

Having said that I understand why Burress is the exception to the rule, youre the one that lumped him into all the other NFL players like theyre all gun toting thugs when you said NFL role models instead of Plaxico Burress.

Maybe you need to re-read what I wrote because I made no excuses for Burress, I said he deserves whatever he has coming to him.  You however then decided to just say everyones making excuses for him, and thats it's typical.  The statement you made about african americans Im not gonna touch with a 100 foot pole.  I brought up the point of wealthy athletes who have to deal with the worry of getting robbed over the past couple years.  You decided to make this about race.

Once again, and Im gonna put it in bold for you this time.  Plaxico deserves whatever he gets because what he did was against the law and it put lives in danger, HOWEVER I do understand why any wealthy high priced athlete would want to be able to protect themselves given all the armed robberies over the past couple years.  The bold part regards Plaxico and note how I didnt say he should get a free pass, the part in italics regards all the other NFL players you lumped into the discussion with him.  I said the same stuff in my original post.  Plaxico broke the law and he deserves the punishment he gets.

[Rondo2287]

How many of those robbed at gunpoints would have turned into double homicides if the person being robbed pulled out their concealed weapon?

[greg683x]

How many of those robbed at gunpoints would have turned into double homicides if the person being robbed pulled out their concealed weapon?

They all potentially could have, most definetly.  Vernon Forest I believe actually returned fire.  I never said that it was the right way to resolve the problem, but I said I would understand why they would feel inclinced to protect themselves.  However, if it does become widely known that athletes will be carrying LEGAL protection, or will have an armed body guard, or some kind of security, Im sure the robberies will drop considerably.

Sean Taylor didnt get killed in a nightclub, he got killed right inside his bedroom door.  Steve Smith had a gun pointed to his head while he was standing outside his townhouse.  Antoine Walker was robbed inside his house I believe. I dont know the details over the others, all Im saying is, its not like these guys are in some strip club 'making it rain'  throwing money all over the place, asking to get robbed, theyre getting approached at their own homes.  Forget NFL Athletes, how many people in america do you think keep LEGAL weapons in their home for protection?  I bet that percentage greatly increases when you scale it down to high profile people who would be targets for an easy robbery.  Im sorry it just doesnt seem all that out of the ordinary for me.  But like I said, what Plaxico did is different, his gun was illegal and endangered lives with it.  The only reason I brought up all these other cases was because that guy said 'strapped NFL Role Models thinking theyre hard', not Plaxico Burress.  I understand he was referring to Burress, But I dont think all other athletes deserves the stupidity label that Burress deserves.

[Jon]

While I certainly don't condone what Vick did and don't disagree with the legal action taken against him, I think anyone who isn't a vegan is pretty much a gigantic hypocrite if they want him further punished.  Do yourself a favor and watch some behind the scenes footage of the horrible conditions that cows, pigs, and fowl are kept under and the atrocious ways they are slaughtered on a daily basis.  And I'm not talking about romantic pastoral ideals where the pigs grew up in a big field and were eventually slaughtered.  I'm talking about pigs in 5 X 2 1/2 steel cages, covered in scabs and fleas, rolling around in their own feces for their entire lives, then horribly slaughtered.  Because that, my friends, is pretty much the state of how nearly all farm animals are raised in this country. 

The lives that the vast majority of animals that cross our plate as meat in America had nearly as bad of lives as the dogs Michael Vick raised.  So unless you plan on doing something about that or stopping to eat meat, people should just be satisfied with what Vick got as punishment and move on. 

[ACF]

Michael Vick is a ****.

[Rondo2287]

I just cant wait to see him on the field again as long as its not on a team that I like.  I dont htink a team can win a championship with vick at the helm because he is too unpredicatable and makes poor throwing decisions but there arent many players that are more entertaining to watch. 

[crownsy]

I just cant wait to see him on the field again as long as its not on a team that I like.  I dont htink a team can win a championship with vick at the helm because he is too unpredicatable and makes poor throwing decisions but there arent many players that are more entertaining to watch. 

If he gets another NFL job, i dont think it will be at QB.

I think he would get more interest as a specialty back, as part of a 1-2 punch like the saints had. HE's the edge/ open field back and a bigger back is the up the gut guy.

Plus it would allow that team to run the dreaded "wildcat" to perfection 

[Rondo2287]

there are so many bad QB's in the league Vick has got to better than at least 10 right now.  Look at how much Eli is making!I think Vick can get a job as starter not this year, but very soon

[crownsy]

there are so many bad QB's in the league Vick has got to better than at least 10 right now.  Look at how much Eli is making!I think Vick can get a job as starter not this year, but very soon

i dunno man...he was pretty awful towards the end as a QB. His greatest strength is open field running, i think he'd do great as part of one of the "quickback/powerback" combo's that are proving so effective.

[Rondo2287]

there are so many bad QB's in the league Vick has got to better than at least 10 right now.  Look at how much Eli is making!I think Vick can get a job as starter not this year, but very soon

i dunno man...he was pretty awful towards the end as a QB. His greatest strength is open field running, i think he'd do great as part of one of the "quickback/powerback" combo's that are proving so effective.

I agree that is one of his strengths, I question whether his frame is durable enough to get hit that much though

[crownsy]

there are so many bad QB's in the league Vick has got to better than at least 10 right now.  Look at how much Eli is making!I think Vick can get a job as starter not this year, but very soon

i dunno man...he was pretty awful towards the end as a QB. His greatest strength is open field running, i think he'd do great as part of one of the "quickback/powerback" combo's that are proving so effective.

I agree that is one of his strengths, I question whether his frame is durable enough to get hit that much though

I hear ya man, but really, is he any less durable than reggie bush? westbrooke?

i mean, vick isn't a small dude, he is like 6'1 215 pre- arrest.

I can see him adding 10-15 pounds of muscle pretty easily.

[Rondo2287]

didnt he have a couple injuries though like a broken leg in a preseason game and then everybody was questioning his durability?  I just think he is alot better suited in a position where he doesnt get hit every down on the field.  I mean hes gotta be better than(My place where he should go) Jamarcus Russel. And we know Al Davis loves problem athletes

[angryguy77]

I know this isn't exactly breaking news, and I'd rather not give this lowlife any more attention than he's already getting, but I feel as though I need to say what's on my mind.



What Vick did was brutal, sadistic, and merciless. The man does not have a moral bone in his body, a noble beat in his heart, or an honest thought in his head. No amount of prison time and no amount of debt can rehabilitate a mind as sick as Vick’s. He is not, and never will be, a healthy man. Not after he shot, electrocuted, slammed, drowned, raped, fought, and tortured hundreds, if not thousands of innocent dogs. Asking Vick for genuine remorse is like asking Jeffrey Dahmer for genuine remorse, for their morbid and disgusting acts in which they took pleasure in are comparable.

No one should be comparing Vick to other criminals the NFL has embraced in the past. Vick is an entirely different case, for the amount of suffering he inflicted on the many innocent lives he tortured is unrivaled by any NFL player, past or present. If Vick plays in the NFL and he is cheered, every sadistic criminal in the world should be cheered for any good they do: The rapists, murderers, and robbers should all be applauded when they manage to contrive the word “sorry” from their lips.

Michael Vick will not get any cheers from me. In fact, I will protest wherever he plays; I will picket in whichever city he is playing in; and I will refuse to watch the NFL. Any league that promotes a man as bloodcurdling as Michael Vick is a league I want no part of.

This is not about being black, white, brown, or yellow. This is about, and only about, the ignorant monster that is Michael Vick. A life is a life. All animals feel pain comparable to what humans feel. And any man that would enjoy inflicting unfathomable amounts of pain on innocent dogs for recreation is not something I, or any other healthy man, can comprehend. I will not forgive or forget what Vick did.

Before I end this essay, I’d like to leave you with a quote from Leonardo Da Vinci, who was perhaps the smartest and most diverse man who ever lived. Da Vinci once said, “The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men.”

I agree that it was a very horrible thing he did. But to compare what he did to say a rapist or murderer is devaluing human life. Yes he acted like a monster, but he paid his price and he should be given a second chance. But you cannot compare what he did to crimes committed against other human beings, they are not on the same level as us and it wrong to make that comparison.