The Big Baby Talk!

[WeMadeIt17]

I came on here for my nightly dose of CB and see the news that perhaps Big Baby could be on the move.. Which i would really not like cause I love that my big Brother hates the Celts and most of all Big Baby but if he were to go the have some nice pieces that would fit it well here with the Celts. Like Yi, whom Danny has coveted since the 07 Draft. Keyon Dooling who can play very good Defense and knock down and open 3, but my favorite who i just remembered played for them Jarvis Hayes! This would be the James Posey replacement we were looking for! 6;8 230 pounds, playes good D, And will knock down the open 3! Please if we do end up trading Big Baby lets make a deal for at least one of those guys! Not Eduardo Najera! Come on Danny get Jarvis and Keyon In BOSTON!

[RAcker]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

[BudweiserCeltic]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

Scal + Baby for Yi and Dooling is what makes most sense to me if anything. Maybe some cash and a pick involved.

[RAcker]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

Scal + Baby for Yi and Dooling is what makes most sense to me if anything. Maybe some cash and a pick involved.

I agree. Something along those lines has to be what Danny is thinking if he's 99.9% sure Baby is gone.

[ManUp]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

Unless they want to give BBD more than he's worth they have to S&T.

BBD's a restricted free agent remember.

[RAcker]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

Unless they want to give BBD more than he's worth they have to S&T.

BBD's a restricted free agent remember.

They know we'll match a certain amount but are obviously dangling some pieces they feel Danny might jump on in an exchange if this rumor really holds water. 

If they valued him to an amount they knew we wouldn't match, they'd just sign him up.  They have to be willing to move some pieces our way if there is truth to this.

[ManUp]

I hope we move BBD for more than Yi. Yi is only good for the dollars he'll bring the Celtics from China. Other than that he'd probably be no better than POB.

[guava_wrench]

What is most interesting about this particular rumor to me is that Danny is working within our own division.  I certainly think he gets more than Yi if he works out a sign and trade with NJ.  I think a PG has to come in the deal.

However, I cannot see NJ motivation for this sign and trade if they can just sign BBD outright.

What is most interesting about this rumor to me is that it doesn't seem to be a rumor. It seems to be basketball forum speculation that people keep repeating since we had the 5th pick a few years ago.

Do we even know that Danny was all that excited about Yi? A lot of speculation. We know Danny was really sold on Swift, but Yi never seemed to interest him at the same level.

[KJ33]

I think those who are down on some version of a sign and trade with NJ or anyone else, are not understanding the big picture very well.  With the signing of Sheed, he took both the money and role that Baby is seeking.  Now, all the Celts need is a cheap option to be a 4th big, which is a combination of 10-15 minutes and insurance to play more in case of injuries.  I personally believe Danny isn't thrilled to pay Baby in the 3 million range as everyone automatically assumes.

For your 4th big, playing limited minutes, being over the salary cap, adding to the luxury tax, I don't think the C's want to spend even that much money for that spot.  Any S & T would be with a team that would pay that much, but can offer Baby a bigger role.  The other alternative, is let Baby walk, then sign a Joe Smith type for the vet min for that limited role.  So whomever the players might be in an S & T, it is flawed analysis to simply weigh what one thinks of Baby's talent, vs. the player/s proposed to come to the Celtics. 

It is about salary cap/luxury tax implications, and roles available.  I like BBD, but understand there is not a big role for him here next year, which is not worth alot of money, and he wants a bigger role.  In fact, I"m not so sure the C's would match any offer, not even a "reasonable" one in the 2-3 million range.  By suggesting they would though, they might be able to get some talent out of another team to fill multiple needs or land someone they think can grow into a bigger role in time, like Yi.   

I'm beginning to think the Celts would only bring Baby back if he took the QO.  They just don't want to spend very much for that small role, especially for a player who would not only be disappointed in getting 2.5-3.5 million, but also with his playing time. 

[ManUp]

I think those who are down on some version of a sign and trade with NJ or anyone else, are not understanding the big picture very well.  With the signing of Sheed, he took both the money and role that Baby is seeking.  Now, all the Celts need is a cheap option to be a 4th big, which is a combination of 10-15 minutes and insurance to play more in case of injuries.  I personally believe Danny isn't thrilled to pay Baby in the 3 million range as everyone automatically assumes.

For your 4th big, playing limited minutes, being over the salary cap, adding to the luxury tax, I don't think the C's want to spend even that much money for that spot.  Any S & T would be with a team that would pay that much, but can offer Baby a bigger role.  The other alternative, is let Baby walk, then sign a Joe Smith type for the vet min for that limited role.  So whomever the players might be in an S & T, it is flawed analysis to simply weigh what one thinks of Baby's talent, vs. the player/s proposed to come to the Celtics. 

It is about salary cap/luxury tax implications, and roles available.  I like BBD, but understand there is not a big role for him here next year, which is not worth alot of money, and he wants a bigger role.  In fact, I"m not so sure the C's would match any offer, not even a "reasonable" one in the 2-3 million range.  By suggesting they would though, they might be able to get some talent out of another team to fill multiple needs or land someone they think can grow into a bigger role in time, like Yi.   

I'm beginning to think the Celts would only bring Baby back if he took the QO.  They just don't want to spend very much for that small role, especially for a player who would not only be disappointed in getting 2.5-3.5 million, but also with his playing time. 

Very good point Tp.

I've been thinking along the same lines for a while now. With Wallace getting the bulk of his minutes behind Perk and KG there isn't much left for Baby. Baby playing elsewhere is the scenario that makes the most sense, but if Danny can resign him at fair value I don't see why he wouldn't. There might not be a deal on the table he likes right now, but he could still flip him for something later.

[LarBrd33]

Getting yi for big baby would be rad. I'm all for that.

[Casperian]

I think those who are down on some version of a sign and trade with NJ or anyone else, are not understanding the big picture very well.  With the signing of Sheed, he took both the money and role that Baby is seeking.  Now, all the Celts need is a cheap option to be a 4th big, which is a combination of 10-15 minutes and insurance to play more in case of injuries.  I personally believe Danny isn't thrilled to pay Baby in the 3 million range as everyone automatically assumes.

For your 4th big, playing limited minutes, being over the salary cap, adding to the luxury tax, I don't think the C's want to spend even that much money for that spot.  Any S & T would be with a team that would pay that much, but can offer Baby a bigger role.  The other alternative, is let Baby walk, then sign a Joe Smith type for the vet min for that limited role.  So whomever the players might be in an S & T, it is flawed analysis to simply weigh what one thinks of Baby's talent, vs. the player/s proposed to come to the Celtics. 

It is about salary cap/luxury tax implications, and roles available.  I like BBD, but understand there is not a big role for him here next year, which is not worth alot of money, and he wants a bigger role.  In fact, I"m not so sure the C's would match any offer, not even a "reasonable" one in the 2-3 million range.  By suggesting they would though, they might be able to get some talent out of another team to fill multiple needs or land someone they think can grow into a bigger role in time, like Yi.   

I'm beginning to think the Celts would only bring Baby back if he took the QO.  They just don't want to spend very much for that small role, especially for a player who would not only be disappointed in getting 2.5-3.5 million, but also with his playing time. 

Respectfully, I disagree, and I think you´re the one who´s not looking at the bigger picture here.

1. I don´t trust a rotation of Perk, KG, Sheed and a low-level 4th big. We´re just one injury away to rely on heavy minutes for our 4th big. Considering the age and injury history of these three guys, it´s absolutely possible that we see more minutes for our 4th big than we would like.
And, these guys won´t get any younger or healthier. What about next year?

2. You don´t tell the fans that you´re willing to spend money to win a championship, go out and sign a 35 year old ex-allstar for the MLE, and then try to cut the corners because of luxury tax implications. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. There is no player in Baby´s quality available. If we let Baby and Powe go, the Sheed-signing was at best a lateral move, imo.

3. What Baby wants is irrelevant to the discussion. The Celtics can match any offer, so they´re the ones who decide if he stays or goes. If Baby doesn´t like his role, he can take the QO and get his big contract next year.

4. It´s a myth that there are not enough minutes available, imo. It´s wrong to simply add the projected minutes per game for the first three bigs to see how many mniutes Baby will play.
I`d think this is obvious, but I guess I have to break it down:

96 minutes at the 4 and 5 for 82 games available.

Last season, Perk played 30 minutes per game, KG 31, and Sheed played 32 minutes. Again, they won´t get any healthier or younger next year, so let us assume that each of these three guys will play 29 minutes per game (for a total of 87 mpg) on a regular basis.
That leaves 9 minutes for a 4th big.
82 (games) x 9 (mpg) = 738 minutes total.

But, these three players missed a total of 47 games last season. Again, they won´t get younger or healthier, so let´s say they´ll miss 30 games next season.
30 (games) x 29 (minutes per game) = 870 minutes.
That means 738 + 870 = 1608 minutes total next season for our 4th big.

1608 / 82 games = ~20 minutes per game, more than enough for Baby, imo.

Additionally, with the health concerns regarding our first three bigs, he could play big minutes here in the playoffs. Considering that his current high value comes in big part from the fact that he got a lot of airtime on TV during the playoffs, there´s a good chance for him to raise his value again next summer, imo.

If you pay peanuts, you´ll earn monkeys.
Open your checkbook, Wyc, and make sure that the injury bug doesn´t have teeth when he bites us, because that will inevitably happen. A 4th quality big is not a luxus, it is necessary.

[Bankshot]

I think those who are down on some version of a sign and trade with NJ or anyone else, are not understanding the big picture very well.  With the signing of Sheed, he took both the money and role that Baby is seeking.  Now, all the Celts need is a cheap option to be a 4th big, which is a combination of 10-15 minutes and insurance to play more in case of injuries.  I personally believe Danny isn't thrilled to pay Baby in the 3 million range as everyone automatically assumes.

For your 4th big, playing limited minutes, being over the salary cap, adding to the luxury tax, I don't think the C's want to spend even that much money for that spot.  Any S & T would be with a team that would pay that much, but can offer Baby a bigger role.  The other alternative, is let Baby walk, then sign a Joe Smith type for the vet min for that limited role.  So whomever the players might be in an S & T, it is flawed analysis to simply weigh what one thinks of Baby's talent, vs. the player/s proposed to come to the Celtics. 

It is about salary cap/luxury tax implications, and roles available.  I like BBD, but understand there is not a big role for him here next year, which is not worth alot of money, and he wants a bigger role.  In fact, I"m not so sure the C's would match any offer, not even a "reasonable" one in the 2-3 million range.  By suggesting they would though, they might be able to get some talent out of another team to fill multiple needs or land someone they think can grow into a bigger role in time, like Yi.   

I'm beginning to think the Celts would only bring Baby back if he took the QO.  They just don't want to spend very much for that small role, especially for a player who would not only be disappointed in getting 2.5-3.5 million, but also with his playing time. 

Respectfully, I disagree, and I think you´re the one who´s not looking at the bigger picture here.

1. I don´t trust a rotation of Perk, KG, Sheed and a low-level 4th big. We´re just one injury away to rely on heavy minutes for our 4th big. Considering the age and injury history of these three guys, it´s absolutely possible that we see more minutes for our 4th big than we would like.
And, these guys won´t get any younger or healthier. What about next year?

2. You don´t tell the fans that you´re willing to spend money to win a championship, go out and sign a 35 year old ex-allstar for the MLE, and then try to cut the corners because of luxury tax implications. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. There is no player in Baby´s quality available. If we let Baby and Powe go, the Sheed-signing was at best a lateral move, imo.

3. What Baby wants is irrelevant to the discussion. The Celtics can match any offer, so they´re the ones who decide if he stays or goes. If Baby doesn´t like his role, he can take the QO and get his big contract next year.

4. It´s a myth that there are not enough minutes available, imo. It´s wrong to simply add the projected minutes per game for the first three bigs to see how many mniutes Baby will play.
I`d think this is obvious, but I guess I have to break it down:

96 minutes at the 4 and 5 for 82 games available.

Last season, Perk played 30 minutes per game, KG 31, and Sheed played 32 minutes. Again, they won´t get any healthier or younger next year, so let us assume that each of these three guys will play 29 minutes per game (for a total of 87 mpg) on a regular basis.
That leaves 9 minutes for a 4th big.
82 (games) x 9 (mpg) = 738 minutes total.

But, these three players missed a total of 47 games last season. Again, they won´t get younger or healthier, so let´s say they´ll miss 30 games next season.
30 (games) x 29 (minutes per game) = 870 minutes.
That means 738 + 870 = 1808 minutes total next season for our 4th big.

1808 / 82 games = ~22 minutes per game, more than enough for Baby, imo.

Additionally, with the health concerns regarding our first three bigs, he could play big minutes here in the playoffs. Considering that his current high value comes in big part from the fact that he got a lot of airtime on TV during the playoffs, there´s a good chance for him to raise his value again next summer, imo.

If you pay peanuts, you´ll earn monkeys.
Open your checkbook, Wyc, and make sure that the injury bug doesn´t have teeth when he bites us, because that will inevitably happen. A 4th quality big is not a luxus, it is necessary.

Good post, Casperian.  I agree.

[BudweiserCeltic]

How is trying to trade Baby for Yi (and who knows who else), and trading for Daniels for that matter, cutting corners?

[Cman]

NJ has some decent young talent.  Probably too much to ask for Courtney Lee in return....  Yi would be intriguing, and I have always thought highly of Najera.

On a different note, what the Cs really need in a 4th big is a banger, which BBD is not.  Powe is/ was a banger, but Danny is gambling Powe won't contribute on any team this year (although if the rumor on the front page about Cleveland's interest is true, it could mean Danny is wrong).