Author Topic: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future  (Read 675552 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2400 on: August 21, 2009, 08:40:57 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
Breaking down the East:

Toronto Raptors (Rondo2287) Andre Miller, Francisco Garcia, Ron Artest, Kevin Garnett, Marcus Camby, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Michael Finley, JJ Barea, Marco Belinelli, Hakim Warrick, Eric Maynor, Taylor Griffin

Philadelphia 76ers (kwhit10)- Carmelo Anthony, Andrew Bynum, Baron Davis, Emeka Okafor, Ronnie Brewer, Anthony Parker, Renaldo Balkman, Janerro Pargo, Steve Novak, Joe Smith, Lindsey Hunter, Francisco Elson, Joey Graham, Will Solomon, Tim Thomas

In the regular season, I had these guys as probably the first and the third best teams in the East, so this one should be close.  Both are very well constructed rosters.

Center:  Marcus Camby vs. Andrew Bynum.  If we believe the hype, it's that Andrew Bynum is the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain.  He's not that.  When healthy, he's a good center down low, though, on both ends.  Camby is a decent offensive player who has more range than Bynum, and who is better rebounder.  Camby is excellent at help defense, and okay at man-to-man.

Looking at their career head-to-head matchups, both have managed to shut down the other offensively.  Camby, however, holds a very large rebounding advantage.  This matchup is probably even.

Power forward:  Kevin Garnett vs. Emeka Okafor.  This is a major mismatch in Toronto's favor.  The players are both very good rebounders, and good defenders (although KG is better).  However, Okafor is a down-low player, and KG is going to hurt his defense by taking him outside.  KG is much more skilled offensively. 

Small forward:  Ron Artest vs. Carmelo Anthony.  I figured this one would be a huge win for Philly, as much as I like Ron Artest.  On paper, though, this one is pretty even.  Head to head, Carmelo has averaged slightly more points and has shot a slightly better percentage (although both guys are pretty poor overall); Artest has had more rebounds, assists, and steals, and fewer turnovers.  If you just look at matchups during the '08-'09 season, Artest actually came out ahead.  That being said, I'm still putting this as a very slight Philly advantage.

Shooting guard:  Francisco Garcia vs. Ronnie Brewer.  A tale of two underrated players.  On a per-minute basis, their stats were almost equal; Garcia has more range, Brewer is better inside.  Brewer is definitely the better defender, and head-to-head, he's done slightly better.  Advantage, Philly

Point guard:  Andre Miller vs. Baron Davis.  In my head, they're even.  On paper, they're even.  I guess that makes this a push.

Bench:  I think this is a big advantage for Toronto, and as I said in previewing the Portland / Buffalo series, a large percentage of each game will have at least one bench player on the court.

Philly just doesn't have anybody who can match Big Z.  Joe Smith can't do it, and frankly, it's a tough matchup for either of the starting bigs, as well.  Finley and Parker are about even in my mind, but Warrick vs. Balkman is a big win for Toronto (and no, I'm not underrating Balkman; I appreciate him as an energy guy).  Tim Thomas could win a game single-handedly for Philly in this series, but I don't think he's good enough to be counted on consistently. 

The end of each team's bench is filled with intriguing guys.  I like JJ Barea a lot.  Joey Graham has talent, he just doesn't put it together consistently (and doesn't have a lot of range).  Bellinelli is a guy that I'm not super high on, but the talent definitely seems to be there.  Pargo, I think, was overrated as CP3's backup, but he can help a team.

Overall:  This is the important part, right?  I see a game where Philly's bigs take up a lot of space in the middle.  That will leave KG and Camby defending the paint.  Since neither Brewer nor Davis is much of a shooter, Toronto will defend against the drive.  Artest will play tough defense on Carmelo, and try to force him into an outside game.  When Carmelo does beat Artest off the dribble, he'll be driving right into KG and Camby, who are camped in the paint.  (Yes, I still believe in the "lane clogging bigs" theory of Doc Rivers.  I think Toronto's defense really disrupts Philly.

On the other end, the opposite is true.  Toronto's bigs -- KG, Big Z, and to a lesser extent Camby -- draw Philly's away from the hoop.  KG takes Okafor outside and hits jump shot after jump shot.  The driving lanes are opened up, meaning Andre Miller can get to the hoop against Davis.  Brewer disrupts whatever man he's guarding -- he can take Artest if need be.  Both Artest and Garcia can hit from outside, and Finley and Bellinelli provide the same thing off of the bench.

Of course, all that being said, Carmelo can win a game or two all on his own, regardless of offensive game plan.  Ultimately, that's what the series will come down to:  can Carmelo carry this team by decimating Ron Artest four times in a seven game series.  I just don't think he can, especially with Toronto's interior defense closing down the lane.

Prediction:  Toronto in 7.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 09:08:45 AM by Roy Hobbs »

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2401 on: August 21, 2009, 08:43:16 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Well I haven't been online since yesterday afernoon but I would like to thank GC and Lucky for putting together a great team, and I'm sorry I had to bounce them out.  TPs to you both.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2402 on: August 21, 2009, 08:55:14 AM »

Offline jdpapa3

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3884
  • Tommy Points: 85
I went with Philly because I don't like Toronto's swingmen. I just can't see a team with Garcia starting at SG making it to the finals. Just based on pure observation, I like Brewer a lot more. Also, I think Philly has nice pieces coming off of the bench in Pargo, Anthony Parker, and Joe Smith. And one of the most equipped frontcourts I have seen to be able to handle the monster frontcourt of Toronto.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2403 on: August 21, 2009, 08:58:59 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Don't be mislead in the Garnett verse Okafor matchup.  Look at thei H2H stats since KG came to Boston:

Garnett: 15ppg, 10rpg, 3apg, 1.8bpg
Okafor:  11ppg, 9rpg, .8apg, 2bpg

The last two games they played KG shot 12 shots at 33%, and 18 shots at 39%
I don't see this as a huge advantage as people might think.

Also don't think that carreer team H2h wins and loses has anything to do with iniviual stats...

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2404 on: August 21, 2009, 08:59:30 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
Ya thats legit, Brewer is pretty darn good.  He was the matchup that concerened me the most going into this.  

Also though, as I said, my bench has proven that they really outplay Phili's.  

And when you say you couldent see a team winning a championship with Garcia starting, alot of people were saying the same thing about Rondo and Perk.  Alot of things change when you surround promising young players with talent and a defensive mindset.  
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2405 on: August 21, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
Don't be mislead in the Garnett verse Okafor matchup.  Look at thei H2H stats since KG came to Boston:

Garnett: 15ppg, 10rpg, 3apg, 1.8bpg
Okafor:  11ppg, 9rpg, .8apg, 2bpg

The last two games they played KG shot 12 shots at 33%, and 18 shots at 39%
I don't see this as a huge advantage as people might think.

Also don't think that carreer team H2h wins and loses has anything to do with iniviual stats...

Yes I would expect Garnetts numbers to decrease once he came to boston, which is consistant with his numbers overall since coming to boston.  Again you are talking about a guy that sacrificed scoring numbers to win a championship, thats not to say he couldnt light up okafor which he did in the past, its saying that he didnt have too
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2406 on: August 21, 2009, 09:07:13 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Lets look at last season in the Brewer vs Garcia

Garcia: 8ppg, 3.1rpg, 2apg, .8spg He shot 50% in 2 games and 25% in the other 2
Brewer: 18ppg, 4.5rpg, 1.8apg, 1.8spg shot 54%, 67%, 42%, 56%.

Garcia's 3pFG%: 2 for 7 in the last 4 games.  So much for his outside shooting.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2407 on: August 21, 2009, 09:08:49 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Don't be mislead in the Garnett verse Okafor matchup.  Look at thei H2H stats since KG came to Boston:

Garnett: 15ppg, 10rpg, 3apg, 1.8bpg
Okafor:  11ppg, 9rpg, .8apg, 2bpg

The last two games they played KG shot 12 shots at 33%, and 18 shots at 39%
I don't see this as a huge advantage as people might think.

Also don't think that carreer team H2h wins and loses has anything to do with iniviual stats...

Yes I would expect Garnetts numbers to decrease once he came to boston, which is consistant with his numbers overall since coming to boston.  Again you are talking about a guy that sacrificed scoring numbers to win a championship, thats not to say he couldnt light up okafor which he did in the past, its saying that he didnt have too

Wow KG lit up Okafor in his freshmand and Sophmore seasons after winning his MVP...  This is 2009-2010 not 2005-2006

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2408 on: August 21, 2009, 09:09:35 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
Ya man I admitted it was a tough matchup for Garcia.  however lets look at that bench matchup

Finley vs Parker (7 games)Finley leads 4-3
Finley:13.3 pts, 4 rbs, 2 ass, .4 stl
Parker: 6.3 pts, 1.9 rbs, 1.1 ass, .6 stl

And do you think a slasher will be as effective against camby and KG as he was against Hawes, and Thompson?
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2409 on: August 21, 2009, 09:11:48 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
January 1st 2008

Garnett: 24 pts, 8 rbs, 4 ass, 2 blks .615%
Okafor: 8 pts, 3rbs, 2 ass,1 blk, .400%

Dude, I admitted Brewer is a good matchup for you, the least you can do is do the same on one that is clearly in my favor
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2410 on: August 21, 2009, 09:15:30 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
January 1st 2008

Garnett: 24 pts, 8 rbs, 4 ass, 2 blks .615%
Okafor: 8 pts, 3rbs, 2 ass,1 blk, .400%

Dude, I admitted Brewer is a good matchup for you, the least you can do is do the same on one that is clearly in my favor

No need to cherry pick one game.  Want me to put out Garnetts stats from his last two games?  Hint:  They aren't very good.

That was going on 2 years ago, and I included that game in my pevious 2 year averages.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2411 on: August 21, 2009, 09:16:07 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
Hint he still outscored okafor
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2412 on: August 21, 2009, 09:18:13 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Hint he still outscored okafor

I know but I'm saying it's not as big an advantage as one might think 15ppg 10pg vs 11ppg 9rpg...

he also shot 33% and 39% while okafor shot way way better.

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2413 on: August 21, 2009, 09:18:52 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
Again man, me cherrypicking one game is just as fair as you only looking at numbers from boston.  When he chose not to take as much of offensive burden.  Thats why I am looking at the ballance of their career matchup.  

Again I think the brewer matchup is a good one for you, but I think this one is definitly a big one in my favor
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: 2009 Celticsblog Draft: Playoff Voting Analysis : Conference Finals!!!
« Reply #2414 on: August 21, 2009, 09:20:49 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4257
  • Tommy Points: 923
Again man, me cherrypicking one game is just as fair as you only looking at numbers from boston.  When he chose not to take as much of offensive burden.  Thats why I am looking at the ballance of their career matchup.  

Again I think the brewer matchup is a good one for you, but I think this one is definitly a big one in my favor

You need to rethink that stats from the last two years is cherry picking( me stats from 8 games, you stats from 1 game).  Garnett is not the same player he was in 2005 and neither is Okafor.