2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[Roy Hobbs]

I of course like this quote from the same article:

One source within the organization said he expects forgotten man Taj Gibson to have a bigger impact than Johnson in their rookie years.  There seemed to be an air of pessimism in general over what Johnson will provide out of the gates especially among those working out with him. 

Go, Taj!  We knew you could do it!

(But if you can't, that's okay, since we're counting on you to be a D-Leaguer, not a member of our rotation.)

I knew it! Roy is the source of this bogus info  

Regarding GC posting it, and I know you disagree with this, but I just think its better to point out one's teams pluses instead of attack other teams. That's the nastiness I have spoken against. Once one person attacks, obviously the other will come back most likely. That's my 2 cents.

I don't see it as nastiness, necessarily.  Rather, there's been a lot of "selling" of players, so some GMs (me included, and obviously Orlando) are going to post more accurate (or even slanted to the negative) information.

For instance, did anybody see Charlie Rosen's list of the softest players in the NBA?

the following players generally avoid contact whenever possible and try to run circle-routes around the most notorious of the league's tough guys.

* Josh Howard

* Kevin Martin

Or, this quote, on the league's most overrated stars:

Don't be fooled by stats, fan-voted All-Star Game appearances, highlighted plays and/or media hype. While every combatant in the NBA is a truly great player, too many of them are gauged by misleading standards.

Here are the most grossly over-valued, not-so superstars.

* Chris Paul

There's no doubt that CP3 has always been a truly great passer and has also worked diligently to become a dangerous 3-point shooter. But there are several reasons why he belongs in this dubious category.

# In half-court offenses, he's a threat to do damage only in screen-and-roll situations, which means that doubling him virtually renders him impotent.

# Because of his diminutive size — listed at 6-feet but closer to 5-foot-10 — he can be easily doubled.

# His defense consists of steals. Period. Which in turn depends mostly on opponents' mistakes.

# Many opponents simply take the ball to their favorite spot and then shoot over him.

# Even when using a screen-and-roll, he's not nearly as effective going left as he is going right.

When was the last time that a pipsqueak-sized point guard led his team to an NBA championship? Slater Martin with the St. Louis Hawks in 1958 — which means that while Paul's Hornets will be a good team, they'll never be good enough.

(I think this is amusing, more than anything, JR.  I don't trust Rosen, either, although the criticism of Martin's softness is well taken.  I put Rosen on about the same level as Hollinger, who some GMs have decided is a visionary during the draft.)

[johnnyrondo]

Obviously you don't see it that way. You've built your whole argument for your team on trying to tear down other teams. If one's team is really that good, you'd think that would be enough to garner the votes.

[Roy Hobbs]

Obviously you don't see it that way. You've built your whole argument for your team on trying to tear down other teams. If one's team is really that good, you'd think that would be enough to garner the votes.

I'm not so sure your hands are as clean as you're saying, JR, but I don't think it matters.  It's a game, and I think you've played it well.

[nickagneta]

Wow!!

Just saw Tradetime voted the Boxers 14th behind his team, a team who's top 10 in their depth chart is:

Stephen Curry/Darren Collison
Wayne Ellington/Christian Eyenga
Caron Butler/Danny Green
Blake Griffin/Jeff Pendergraph
Javale McGee/BJ Mullens

vs the Boxers top 10:

Joel Przybilla/Dan Gadzuric/
Luis Scola/Darko Milicic
Gerald Wallace/Julian Wright
Stephen Jackson/Anthony Morrow
Ramon Sessions/George Hill

Am I the only one scratching my head on that one?

So much for making the playoffs? It was fun playing this game while it lasted!!

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I think it's absolutely insane that my team is being left out of the playoffs. Name a better starting 5 in the league. and we have a decent bench too.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

EDITED

I prefer that no voting totals are published until voting is closed.  I appreciate it.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think it's absolutely insane that my team is being left out of the playoffs. Name a better starting 5 in the league. and we have a decent bench too.

There are better starting fives, CFF, but I agree that yours is a playoff team (and I mentioned that earlier in the thread).  I'm a big believer in Amare' and Gay, and I like Watson more than most.

However, people see teams differently, and it's not necessarily all due to talent.  For instance, look at these two NBA teams:


Andris Biedrins
Anthony Randolph / Turiaf
Steven Jackson / Corey Maggette
Jamal Crawford / Azuibuke
Monta Ellis

Playoff team?  Nope.  29 wins.

Marcus Camby / Chris Kaman
Zach Randolph
Al Thornton
Eric Gordon
Baron Davis

Playoff team?  Nope.  19 wins.

[ChampKind]

I think it's absolutely insane that my team is being left out of the playoffs. Name a better starting 5 in the league. and we have a decent bench too.

Your team is good, but the huge question marks at the PG spot may worry some voters.  Don't worry, you'll make the playoffs regardless, even if some voters aren't giving you the respect your team deserves.

[indeedproceed]

Have you seen the recent article by Charlie Rosen?

I don't watch basketball but if I pretend to watch basketball and write silly overly simplistic analysis using tons of hyperbole and unqualified statements, people will pay me!

[nickagneta]

I think it's absolutely insane that my team is being left out of the playoffs. Name a better starting 5 in the league. and we have a decent bench too.

Well, I'll give you my reasoning

I think you're PGs are awful

I think Mayo and Gay are having a hard enough time at a young age winning 30 games in Memphis and I don't think they have the experience yet to push your team past some of it's deficiencies.

Chandler is a big health question mark and I think he put up numbers like he did because of his PG.

Amare is a stud who is a little to full of himself to lead a team, which is what you will need him to do.

Swift, Swft, Najera and Marbury are stiffs.

Just one GM's opinion though.

[Roy Hobbs]

I of course like this quote from the same article:

One source within the organization said he expects forgotten man Taj Gibson to have a bigger impact than Johnson in their rookie years.  There seemed to be an air of pessimism in general over what Johnson will provide out of the gates especially among those working out with him. 

Go, Taj!  We knew you could do it!

(But if you can't, that's okay, since we're counting on you to be a D-Leaguer, not a member of our rotation.)

I knew it! Roy is the source of this bogus info  

Regarding GC posting it, and I know you disagree with this, but I just think its better to point out one's teams pluses instead of attack other teams. That's the nastiness I have spoken against. Once one person attacks, obviously the other will come back most likely. That's my 2 cents.

I don't see it as nastiness, necessarily.  Rather, there's been a lot of "selling" of players, so some GMs (me included, and obviously Orlando) are going to post more accurate (or even slanted to the negative) information.

For instance, did anybody see Charlie Rosen's list of the softest players in the NBA?

the following players generally avoid contact whenever possible and try to run circle-routes around the most notorious of the league's tough guys.

* Josh Howard

* Kevin Martin

Or, this quote, on the league's most overrated stars:

Don't be fooled by stats, fan-voted All-Star Game appearances, highlighted plays and/or media hype. While every combatant in the NBA is a truly great player, too many of them are gauged by misleading standards.

Here are the most grossly over-valued, not-so superstars.

* Chris Paul

There's no doubt that CP3 has always been a truly great passer and has also worked diligently to become a dangerous 3-point shooter. But there are several reasons why he belongs in this dubious category.

# In half-court offenses, he's a threat to do damage only in screen-and-roll situations, which means that doubling him virtually renders him impotent.

# Because of his diminutive size — listed at 6-feet but closer to 5-foot-10 — he can be easily doubled.

# His defense consists of steals. Period. Which in turn depends mostly on opponents' mistakes.

# Many opponents simply take the ball to their favorite spot and then shoot over him.

# Even when using a screen-and-roll, he's not nearly as effective going left as he is going right.

When was the last time that a pipsqueak-sized point guard led his team to an NBA championship? Slater Martin with the St. Louis Hawks in 1958 — which means that while Paul's Hornets will be a good team, they'll never be good enough.

(I think this is amusing, more than anything, JR.  I don't trust Rosen, either, although the criticism of Martin's softness is well taken.  I put Rosen on about the same level as Hollinger, who some GMs have decided is a visionary during the draft.)

Have you seen the recent article by Charlie Rosen?

I don't watch basketball but if I pretend to and write silly overly simplistic analysis analysis of them, people will pay me!

Haha.  I love that that is from a Suns blog.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

I think it's absolutely insane that my team is being left out of the playoffs. Name a better starting 5 in the league. and we have a decent bench too.

Your team is good, but the huge question marks at the PG spot may worry some voters.  Don't worry, you'll make the playoffs regardless, even if some voters aren't giving you the respect your team deserves.

You're not quite in the clear, but have a sizeable enough advantage to feel good about playoff chances right now. The battle for the last spot is pretty tight.

[Rondo2287]

TP for HDM for putting the Tally of the votes together so far

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

TP for HDM for putting the Tally of the votes together so far

Thanks man... Remember that is accurate as of Jsaad's pick at 12:05, so anything after that is not included. Easy to update though, I'm just willing to let someone else do it haha. 15 pts for 1st, 14 for 2nd, etc.

[Gainesville Celtic]

JR -- I honestly was not being nasty by posting one observers assesment of James Johnson and some feeling among Bulls brass about his first month as a Bull.

You'd been hyping him (which you should do) and this was meant as a counterbalance -- why is that nasty?

How's it any diff than you implying the Grizz took Thabeet bc Gasol isn't cutting it? I didn't accuse you of something -- I just explained that Memphis draft patterns are spo odd I don't think you can draw much from a single pick.

I hope most people know from their dealings w me on the board, chat and PM that I'm a fairly reasonable fellow who tries to treay others as I'd want to be treated.

Seriously -- no harm meant