2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[KCattheStripe]

My bad, Wiki lied to me.

[Rondo2287]

or they replace Allen Iverson ( two time All NBA Defensive team) with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Fixed

Iverson was never on the all defensive team

[indeedproceed]

I dont know how after watching the orlando series you can defend Alston.  He was either hitting his threes or He was aweful.  He also didnt run the offense, Turk did.  And then they replaced him for a guy that hadnt played 3/4 of the season in the finals.  

And I think its a very valid argument that Nene may regress seeing as how he has yet to play two seasons back to back in recent memory.  Which means this year he is due for an injury.  

And we have seen alot of players that depend soley on effort relax once they hit it big on a contract.  

Which do you think is more related
Denvers defense get better because.....

They lose a 4 time NBA all defense team member and 1 time defensive player of the year

or they replace Allen Iverson with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Look, I'm not saying your team is bad. I'm just saying that Nene is better than you think, and Camby is worse.

Alston I agree either shows up or he doesn't, but just like Hedo handled the ball a ton for Orlando, Dwayne Wade will handle the ball for Boston. What's the difference?

I don't think you have any reliable perimeter scorers, and I think your interior scorers need someone to set them up. I do think that you have probably the best defensive starting 5 in the league. Its a trade off you made..maybe it will play out maybe it won't.

[Rondo2287]

I dont know how after watching the orlando series you can defend Alston.  He was either hitting his threes or He was aweful.  He also didnt run the offense, Turk did.  And then they replaced him for a guy that hadnt played 3/4 of the season in the finals.  

And I think its a very valid argument that Nene may regress seeing as how he has yet to play two seasons back to back in recent memory.  Which means this year he is due for an injury.  

And we have seen alot of players that depend soley on effort relax once they hit it big on a contract.  

Which do you think is more related
Denvers defense get better because.....

They lose a 4 time NBA all defense team member and 1 time defensive player of the year

or they replace Allen Iverson with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Look, I'm not saying your team is bad. I'm just saying that Nene is better than you think, and Camby is worse.

Alston I agree either shows up or he doesn't, but just like Hedo handled the ball a ton for Orlando, Dwayne Wade will handle the ball for Boston. What's the difference?

I don't think you have any reliable perimeter scorers, and I think your interior scorers need someone to set them up. I do think that you have probably the best defensive starting 5 in the league. Its a trade off you made..maybe it will play out maybe it won't.

Im not Saying Nene is bad defensively either but I think Camby is better.  But I also think its foolish to say that their defense got better because Camby left. 

I would say the difference between Turk handling the ball in Orlando was that he wasnt also their primary scorer.  He was a complimentary scorer. 

And I agree my interior scorers need to be set up and thats why I traded gilbert for a passing PG

[Rondo2287]

Also How will Nene's defense be effected by not having a lock down defender in Martin right beside him?

[indeedproceed]

I dont know how after watching the orlando series you can defend Alston.  He was either hitting his threes or He was aweful.  He also didnt run the offense, Turk did.  And then they replaced him for a guy that hadnt played 3/4 of the season in the finals.  

And I think its a very valid argument that Nene may regress seeing as how he has yet to play two seasons back to back in recent memory.  Which means this year he is due for an injury.  

And we have seen alot of players that depend soley on effort relax once they hit it big on a contract.  

Which do you think is more related
Denvers defense get better because.....

They lose a 4 time NBA all defense team member and 1 time defensive player of the year

or they replace Allen Iverson with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Look, I'm not saying your team is bad. I'm just saying that Nene is better than you think, and Camby is worse.

Alston I agree either shows up or he doesn't, but just like Hedo handled the ball a ton for Orlando, Dwayne Wade will handle the ball for Boston. What's the difference?

I don't think you have any reliable perimeter scorers, and I think your interior scorers need someone to set them up. I do think that you have probably the best defensive starting 5 in the league. Its a trade off you made..maybe it will play out maybe it won't.

Im not Saying Nene is bad defensively either but I think Camby is better.  But I also think its foolish to say that their defense got better because Camby left.

Just like its foolish to think Nene only got better because chauncy came. Look at his career numbers, they are very consistent. Agree to disagree on Camby. I think he makes maybe the best help defender in the NBA, but not an elite man defender. I think Nene is an elite man defender.
 

I would say the difference between Turk handling the ball in Orlando was that he wasnt also their primary scorer.  He was a complimentary scorer. 

I fail to see the correlation. Because Turkoglu didn't score as much he was a better distributer than Wade, even though Wade averaged over 2.5 assists higher than Turk.

And I agree my interior scorers need to be set up and thats why I traded gilbert for a passing PG

A passing PG that has no outside shot. Neither was a perfect solution but I liked Gilbert better for your team.

[Rondo2287]

I dont know how after watching the orlando series you can defend Alston.  He was either hitting his threes or He was aweful.  He also didnt run the offense, Turk did.  And then they replaced him for a guy that hadnt played 3/4 of the season in the finals.  

And I think its a very valid argument that Nene may regress seeing as how he has yet to play two seasons back to back in recent memory.  Which means this year he is due for an injury.  

And we have seen alot of players that depend soley on effort relax once they hit it big on a contract.  

Which do you think is more related
Denvers defense get better because.....

They lose a 4 time NBA all defense team member and 1 time defensive player of the year

or they replace Allen Iverson with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Look, I'm not saying your team is bad. I'm just saying that Nene is better than you think, and Camby is worse.

Alston I agree either shows up or he doesn't, but just like Hedo handled the ball a ton for Orlando, Dwayne Wade will handle the ball for Boston. What's the difference?

I don't think you have any reliable perimeter scorers, and I think your interior scorers need someone to set them up. I do think that you have probably the best defensive starting 5 in the league. Its a trade off you made..maybe it will play out maybe it won't.

Im not Saying Nene is bad defensively either but I think Camby is better.  But I also think its foolish to say that their defense got better because Camby left.

Just like its foolish to think Nene only got better because chauncy came. Look at his career numbers, they are very consistent. Agree to disagree on Camby. I think he makes maybe the best help defender in the NBA, but not an elite man defender. I think Nene is an elite man defender.
 

I would say the difference between Turk handling the ball in Orlando was that he wasnt also their primary scorer.  He was a complimentary scorer. 

I fail to see the correlation. Because Turkoglu didn't score as much he was a better distributer than Wade, even though Wade averaged over 2.5 assists higher than Turk.

And I agree my interior scorers need to be set up and thats why I traded gilbert for a passing PG

A passing PG that has no outside shot. Neither was a perfect solution but I liked Gilbert better for your team.

I dont see Nene as an elite defender.  I watched alot of Denver games this year on league pass, he never stood out to me.  K-mart stood out.

The Wade point is a good one, didnt realize he averaged 7.5 assists this year, thats nasty

A better passing PG who although he doesnt have an outside shot manages to have a significantly Higher FG% than both Rafer and Dwade

[wdleehi]

I dont know how after watching the orlando series you can defend Alston.  He was either hitting his threes or He was aweful.  He also didnt run the offense, Turk did.  And then they replaced him for a guy that hadnt played 3/4 of the season in the finals.  

And I think its a very valid argument that Nene may regress seeing as how he has yet to play two seasons back to back in recent memory.  Which means this year he is due for an injury.  

And we have seen alot of players that depend soley on effort relax once they hit it big on a contract.  

Which do you think is more related
Denvers defense get better because.....

They lose a 4 time NBA all defense team member and 1 time defensive player of the year

or they replace Allen Iverson with Chauncey Billups 2 time NBA all defensive team. 

Look, I'm not saying your team is bad. I'm just saying that Nene is better than you think, and Camby is worse.

Alston I agree either shows up or he doesn't, but just like Hedo handled the ball a ton for Orlando, Dwayne Wade will handle the ball for Boston. What's the difference?

I don't think you have any reliable perimeter scorers, and I think your interior scorers need someone to set them up. I do think that you have probably the best defensive starting 5 in the league. Its a trade off you made..maybe it will play out maybe it won't.

Im not Saying Nene is bad defensively either but I think Camby is better.  But I also think its foolish to say that their defense got better because Camby left.

Just like its foolish to think Nene only got better because chauncy came. Look at his career numbers, they are very consistent. Agree to disagree on Camby. I think he makes maybe the best help defender in the NBA, but not an elite man defender. I think Nene is an elite man defender.
 

I would say the difference between Turk handling the ball in Orlando was that he wasnt also their primary scorer.  He was a complimentary scorer. 

I fail to see the correlation. Because Turkoglu didn't score as much he was a better distributer than Wade, even though Wade averaged over 2.5 assists higher than Turk.

And I agree my interior scorers need to be set up and thats why I traded gilbert for a passing PG

A passing PG that has no outside shot. Neither was a perfect solution but I liked Gilbert better for your team.

I dont see Nene as an elite defender.  I watched alot of Denver games this year on league pass, he never stood out to me.  K-mart stood out.

The Wade point is a good one, didnt realize he averaged 7.5 assists this year, thats nasty

A better passing PG who although he doesnt have an outside shot manages to have a significantly Higher FG% than both Rafer and Dwade

Bigger point, KG is next to Camby.  Mcdyse is next Nene.   Huge advantage to the Raptors.  If only they had a SG that was worth 20+ minutes a game.

[indeedproceed]

I think Kmart is flashy, Nene is fundamentally sound and he's strong as heck. If you watched Chris ANderson and Tim Duncan both play defense for 25 mins straight, you'd think Birdman was better, because he is more energetic an takes high risk/high reward chances.

But we all know that Tim Duncan is the better defender because he alters shots, even if he never blocks a 1.

[Rondo2287]

Agree to disagree on the Nene thing I guess. I mean its tough to guage when there are absolutely no stats really for tough man to man defense. 

And Wdleehi, you will be surprised by Afflalo come mid season.  Mark today on your calendar. I guarentee it. 

[The Walker Wiggle]

You like Nene and Birdman that much better than Camby and Big Z?

I guess it depends on whether Nene continues his development, and whether Birdman learns to play defense (rather than just blocking shots).

You're too dismissive of Anderson's development. I agree he bites on too many fakes and can be found out of position. But he's often excellent showing on screens and defending the high pick and roll. (Neither of which Shaq will do at this point...)

Truehoop ran a terrific blow by blow analysis of Anderon's defense in Game 1 of last seasons Nuggets and Mavs matchup, titled Birdwatching. Take a look Roy.

[Roy Hobbs]

You like Nene and Birdman that much better than Camby and Big Z?

I guess it depends on whether Nene continues his development, and whether Birdman learns to play defense (rather than just blocking shots).

You're too dismissive of Anderson's development. I agree he bites on too many fakes and can be found out of position. But he's often excellent showing on screens and defending the high pick and roll. (Neither of which Shaq will do at this point...)

Truehoop ran a terrific blow by blow analysis of Anderon's defense in Game 1 of last seasons Nuggets and Mavs matchup, titled Birdwatching. Take a look Roy.

I'm not basing my analysis on a couple of minutes he guarded Dirk in one game, though.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I'm not basing my analysis on a couple of minutes he guarded Dirk in one game, though.

What!? Why not?

Ha, neither am I. I just wanted to share a good read that happened to be relevant to the discussion. No offense intended.

[riah32]

So whats everyone think of my roster now thats its almost filled out now:
PG:Flynn/Jennings/Williams/Sasha
SG:Roy/Mo Pete/Sasha/Sam Young
SF:Hedo/Young/Mo Pete
PF:Al Harrington/Dante Cunnigham/dalembert 
C:Dalembert/Thabeet

[crownsy]

You like Nene and Birdman that much better than Camby and Big Z?

I guess it depends on whether Nene continues his development, and whether Birdman learns to play defense (rather than just blocking shots).

You're too dismissive of Anderson's development. I agree he bites on too many fakes and can be found out of position. But he's often excellent showing on screens and defending the high pick and roll. (Neither of which Shaq will do at this point...)

Truehoop ran a terrific blow by blow analysis of Anderon's defense in Game 1 of last seasons Nuggets and Mavs matchup, titled Birdwatching. Take a look Roy.

I'm not basing my analysis on a couple of minutes he guarded Dirk in one game, though.

but what are you basing it on?

I think birdman, while certainly no lock down defender, is much better at altering shots and playing defense than he's given credit for.

To hear some evals, he's just a guy who jumps alot and gets lucky. i don't think that's true at all, having watched all the nuggs playoff games and some regular season match ups. That kid is a good bench defender, he gives all out effort, shows on screens and rolls, and is physical with his man. He's flawed as a player, sure, but he's a very good bench big defender.

If he played here, I would love him as part of our big rotation.