2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[indeedproceed]

. . . One of the reasons being that the Portland offense will revolve around a perimeter shooting game . . .

Both Manu and Redd get to the hoop a ton, and Shaq is a dominant post force.  Portland has outside shooting, but I wouldn't say their offense revolves around it.

Redd last year was 41st overall in FT attempts per game in roughly 37 mins per game. Ginobli ranked lower. Maybe earlier in their respective careers you could've claimed they "get to the hoop a ton"..I know Manu was famous for it, but as their ages have increased and their games matured...that's hardly the case now.

You think a SG ranking 41st overall in free throw attempts is bad?  Redd was 9th in the NBA among shooting guards.  Also, 28% of his shots were from inside.  30% of Manu's were.  Those are good penetration numbers.

Also, for perspective, Manu averaged 0.8 fewer FTAs per 36 minutes than Paul Pierce. 

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

[Roy Hobbs]

on a different note, I wasnt really taking many of Redd's stats from last year in consideration since it was an abbreviated season so Rankings like that dont really hold much weight for me, I dunno(not a shot at injury, just I kinda threw last years stats out)

Redd's numbers last season were really no different than throughout his career, so I'm not sure why you'd throw them out the window.  Anyway, he's always gone to the hoop at about the same rate.  People who think Michael Redd is solely a perimeter player simply haven't watched the guy play, which is a shame.

And Roy if you are talking about KG getting outscored by Rashard dont the points that KG puts up have a say in that too.

Rashard is scoring above his career and season average against KG.  But sure, you're right, the statistical scoring domination has extended to both ends, as Lewis has held KG below his career (and Boston) averages, as well.
 

[indeedproceed]

Rashard is scoring above his career and season average against KG.  But sure, you're right, the statistical scoring domination has extended to both ends, as Lewis has held KG below his career (and Boston) averages, as well.

What about the playoffs? KG turns it up in the playoffs!

[Roy Hobbs]

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

And I would submit that you're being a teeny, tiny bit disingenuous, to provoke debate.  Seriously, people don't think Manu Ginobili gets to the hoop?  Have you watched the NBA in the past ten years?  I understand if you don't watch Redd -- he plays for a team that has been, at best, decent -- but to not know Manu's game just really surprises me.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll be buying a couple of GMs League Pass. 

(I also find it a little comical that people are arguing that guys who ranked 15th and 18th in the NBA two seasons ago in terms of free throw attempts are strictly perimeter players.)

[Rondo2287]

on a different note, I wasnt really taking many of Redd's stats from last year in consideration since it was an abbreviated season so Rankings like that dont really hold much weight for me, I dunno(not a shot at injury, just I kinda threw last years stats out)

Redd's numbers last season were really no different than throughout his career, so I'm not sure why you'd throw them out the window.  Anyway, he's always gone to the hoop at about the same rate.  People who think Michael Redd is solely a perimeter player simply haven't watched the guy play, which is a shame.

And Roy if you are talking about KG getting outscored by Rashard dont the points that KG puts up have a say in that too.

Rashard is scoring above his career and season average against KG.  But sure, you're right, the statistical scoring domination has extended to both ends, as Lewis has held KG below his career (and Boston) averages, as well.
 

OK thats cool completely ignore the point I made and keep throwing your skewed view at it, its cool.  Cause its not like the defensive player of the year in the middle makes a difference on PF production.  

We saw this year that the difference with KG and without KG is 11 points allowed per game.  You take Rashard away from a dominant defensive big behind him and he get lit up just like he did in Seatle for 31 games as apposed to 5

[KCattheStripe]

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

And I would submit that you're being a teeny, tiny bit disingenuous, to provoke debate.  Seriously, people don't think Manu Ginobili gets to the hoop?  Have you watched the NBA in the past ten years?  I understand if you don't watch Redd -- he plays for a team that has been, at best, decent -- but to not know Manu's game just really surprises me.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll be buying a couple of GMs League Pass. 

Good, then they can watch Wilson Chandler, Boris Diaw and Brook Lopez and realize how wrong they were.

[Rondo2287]

Roy forget League pass, we gotta get edgar and KC ABC.  They seemed to have missed the finals two years ago

[Roy Hobbs]

You take Rashard away from a dominant defensive big behind him and he get lit up just like he did in Seatle for 31 games as apposed to 5

KG "lighting up" (i.e., scoring around his career averages) against Chris Wilcox and Nick Collison is Rashard's fault, how?  The two didn't match up one-on-one.

[indeedproceed]

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

And I would submit that you're being a teeny, tiny bit disingenuous, to provoke debate.  Seriously, people don't think Manu Ginobili gets to the hoop?  Have you watched the NBA in the past ten years?  I understand if you don't watch Redd -- he plays for a team that has been, at best, decent -- but to not know Manu's game just really surprises me.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll be buying a couple of GMs League Pass. 

i think Manu Ginobli is not the player he once was, because his playing style is incredibly taxing on his body. I think Dwayne Wade goes through a similar transition when he turns 29, 30 or so.

Ginobli is either going to have to change the way he plays, or understand that he won't be playing for long, since he's relatively young at 31 I think he changes...and with Micheal Redd not needing to force his shots, I think he becomes much more of a jumpshooter, but I'd expect his 3pt % to rise to around 42%.

That's not being disingenuous, sir. That is being thorough.

[Edgar]

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

And I would submit that you're being a teeny, tiny bit disingenuous, to provoke debate.  Seriously, people don't think Manu Ginobili gets to the hoop?  Have you watched the NBA in the past ten years?  I understand if you don't watch Redd -- he plays for a team that has been, at best, decent -- but to not know Manu's game just really surprises me.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll be buying a couple of GMs League Pass. 

Good, then they can watch Wilson Chandler, Boris Diaw and Brook Lopez and realize how wrong they were.

 


p.s.


Who will be the alpha dog scorer on that toronto team?


P.s.2 i am pretty much sure , like all here that i watch more games than u a year.

[KCattheStripe]

Roy forget League pass, we gotta get edgar and KC ABC.  They seemed to have missed the finals two years ago

I remember a lot of Paul Pierce and Posey driving Kobe nuts. I remember Ray abusing Sasha. I remember Pose and E House hitting clutch 3 after clutch 3. I remember Leon owning the Lakers front line. And I remember KG hitting one big shot in a game we ended up winning by 30.

[Rondo2287]

Well Wilcox only went to seattle for what one season while rashard was there?  before that he was with the clips.  Dont test me on the clips Roy, you cant win   and before that Rashard was seeing more time at the PF than you are letting on and KG more at the SF.  But thats besides the point.  

I would say for the sake of this discussion my supposed matchup of KG on Wilcox is as relevent as KG on Rashard when you dont take into account Dwight in the middle

[Rondo2287]

OK  we gotta spring and get KC a DVR too so in the future he can record the games and refresh his memory later on

[Roy Hobbs]

I think its bad when he ranked 15th 2 yrs ago, and Ginobli ranked 18th same year.

I'm not sure that saying your wings can get to the rim is anything but hoping, you know? I just feel like considering their ages and injury histories, they're gonna want to settle for jump shots rather than make those rickety arthritic surgerically repaired legs do the work.

And I would submit that you're being a teeny, tiny bit disingenuous, to provoke debate.  Seriously, people don't think Manu Ginobili gets to the hoop?  Have you watched the NBA in the past ten years?  I understand if you don't watch Redd -- he plays for a team that has been, at best, decent -- but to not know Manu's game just really surprises me.

If I ever win the lottery, I'll be buying a couple of GMs League Pass. 

i think Manu Ginobli is not the player he once was, because his playing style is incredibly taxing on his body. I think Dwayne Wade goes through a similar transition when he turns 29, 30 or so.

Ginobli is either going to have to change the way he plays, or understand that he won't be playing for long, since he's relatively young at 31 I think he changes...and with Micheal Redd not needing to force his shots, I think he becomes much more of a jumpshooter, but I'd expect his 3pt % to rise to around 42%.

That's not being disingenuous, sir. That is being thorough.

Here's a highlight reel from last season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXuXzYV4qgA

He still gets to the hoop.  Again, his FT rate is just below Pierce's.

[Edgar]

Who will be the alpha dog scorer on that toronto team?[/move]