Please stop the Matt Barnes as the solution talk! He is Overrated!

[the_Bird]

How can we be talking about this guy being "overrated". He is a career role player who played for the vet min last year. And after what could perhaps be his best year as a pro, he still is out there in free agency. No teams are jumping to sign Barnes right away. Now i am in the camp that would love to add him to the roster. I love what he could bring to the team. His energy, 3 pt. shooting, and swagger would be a welcome addition to a team that is looking to get back to the finals. And for those who think he wouldnt want to play on the east coast, dont forget he did play with both the Knicks and 76ers early in his career. If it came down to a crappy west coast team and the celtics offering similar money, i think he would choose Boston. Playing well for a championship team increases the value of most players. Example: James Posey...signed with Celtics with a cheap 2 year deal and then got himself a fat 4 year contract worth over 20 million with the Hornets. Now i imagine Barnes wouldnt garner a contract that high if he played well and the Celts won but he could get himself a nice contract that would give him some security for the future.

Oh, I don't think he is overrated at all by GMs around the league, who clearly see his limitations, despite the deceivingly good numbers.  I think the overrated thing comes from this board, where he seems to have a lot of huge fans, who have been beating the drum about him since last summer.  I think the fact that C's did not have a viable backup wing last year, and he put up nice numbers for the Suns on a vet minimum deal has helped his legend grow much larger than his actual skills (much like Chris Andersen's did).

I'm in that boat.  He's not a great player, but he's better than the guys we had backing up Pierce last year.  He's better than Tony Allen, so it was frustrating to see Tony re-signed to a $2.5M contract when a better player (not saying much in comparison to TA) was potentially available at the minimum. 

Would I sign him today (assuming he wanted to come)?  As a fall-back option.  Step one is calling Sacramento to inquire about Nochioni.  Step two is inquiring about Moon (doubtful they could do a S&T, and more doubtful he'd sign for the LLE).  Step three is deciding between Stackhouse, Tim Thomas, Barnes, and all of the other available wing players, basically all of whom are fringe-rotation guys. 

Step four is to pray that Giddens and/or Billy Walker learn to play under a bit more control and can start earning some real playing time.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

I agree with the thread, this guy is overrated & pulls the "screw face" way too many times when he commits a foul. When you slash a guy over the arms as he blows by you, that is a foul, there is no need to throw your arms in the air and make your face look like Styles P. Barnes is right sometimes, but since he complains about every call like he is Kobe, how do you know when there is a legit gripe?

[jacksmedulaoblongata]

I agree with dropping Matt Barnes as long as we drop Udoku,Stackhouse,and Nocioni along with him because their not solutions either.

[mgent]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see what the panic is for a wing player?  I'm much more concerned with a backup PG.

Screw Tony Allen; I think Walker and Giddens can fill the void.

I'd much rather see them than to pay a good chunk of change to bring in a player and hope they work out.  We're really freaking out because we may not get Rodney Carney or Udoka?  And Matt Barnes would be a terrible fit.

Worst Case Scenario: Walker and Giddens fail, and we package some players for a wing later in the year.  There are plenty of wing players in the NBA.

There are few quality point guards that we can get to handle the load while Rondo's on the bench.  And let's not forget how important it is to relieve House of PG duties -- we need him roaming free, getting shots, not bringing the ball up the court.

Forget backup wing - go get a PG!

The problem with this is the age of our wing players. If we don't have a good back up wing we can still win. However, our stars will decline as the season goes on which hurts us a little this year but could shorten our window by several years.

How many times have players and coaches said fatigue is never a factor?  Minutes are becoming overrated, basketball players are some of the most conditioned athletes in the world.  I agree with Aaron, a back-up PG should be our first priority.
He's also right that no one should be freaking out about not getting anybody.  It's embarrassing that we came into the off season with 4-5 holes in our bench in the first place, and now we have to worry about finding guys to help rest our starters.  Young guys are the ideal back-ups because they don't tire as easily and they need first-hand experience anyway.  Unfortunately the 3 young guys on our bench don't play.  They are the guys who are supposed to be giving us depth.  If we had no intention to ever put them in the game I'm not sure why we've held on to them.

[wdleehi]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see what the panic is for a wing player?  I'm much more concerned with a backup PG.

Screw Tony Allen; I think Walker and Giddens can fill the void.

I'd much rather see them than to pay a good chunk of change to bring in a player and hope they work out.  We're really freaking out because we may not get Rodney Carney or Udoka?  And Matt Barnes would be a terrible fit.

Worst Case Scenario: Walker and Giddens fail, and we package some players for a wing later in the year.  There are plenty of wing players in the NBA.

There are few quality point guards that we can get to handle the load while Rondo's on the bench.  And let's not forget how important it is to relieve House of PG duties -- we need him roaming free, getting shots, not bringing the ball up the court.

Forget backup wing - go get a PG!

The problem with this is the age of our wing players. If we don't have a good back up wing we can still win. However, our stars will decline as the season goes on which hurts us a little this year but could shorten our window by several years.

How many times have players and coaches said fatigue is never a factor?  Minutes are becoming overrated, basketball players are some of the most conditioned athletes in the world.  I agree with Aaron, a back-up PG should be our first priority.
He's also right that no one should be freaking out about not getting anybody.  It's embarrassing that we came into the off season with 4-5 holes in our bench in the first place, and now we have to worry about finding guys to help rest our starters.  Young guys are the ideal back-ups because they don't tire as easily and they need first-hand experience anyway.  Unfortunately the 3 young guys on our bench don't play.  They are the guys who are supposed to be giving us depth.  If we had no intention to ever put them in the game I'm not sure why we've held on to them.

House has proved to be a much better backup PG then any of the backup wings have proven to be backup swings.


And minutes do matter when players get older.  It takes longer to come back from nagging injuries that are caused by alot of minutes. 

[Ed Teach]

You do realize that we are discussing what is available for the LLE or the vet min?
You are not going to be able to find a player with no weaknesses for that amount of money.  I think that out of the available players that an argument can be made that Barnes has the most to offer. 

It is a very similar discussion to the Joe Smith vs Miki Moore, everyone is hoping that we pick wisely and end up with a contributing backup wing.

[Aaron]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see what the panic is for a wing player?  I'm much more concerned with a backup PG.

Screw Tony Allen; I think Walker and Giddens can fill the void.

I'd much rather see them than to pay a good chunk of change to bring in a player and hope they work out.  We're really freaking out because we may not get Rodney Carney or Udoka?  And Matt Barnes would be a terrible fit.

Worst Case Scenario: Walker and Giddens fail, and we package some players for a wing later in the year.  There are plenty of wing players in the NBA.

There are few quality point guards that we can get to handle the load while Rondo's on the bench.  And let's not forget how important it is to relieve House of PG duties -- we need him roaming free, getting shots, not bringing the ball up the court.

Forget backup wing - go get a PG!

The problem with this is the age of our wing players. If we don't have a good back up wing we can still win. However, our stars will decline as the season goes on which hurts us a little this year but could shorten our window by several years.

How many times have players and coaches said fatigue is never a factor?  Minutes are becoming overrated, basketball players are some of the most conditioned athletes in the world.  I agree with Aaron, a back-up PG should be our first priority.
He's also right that no one should be freaking out about not getting anybody.  It's embarrassing that we came into the off season with 4-5 holes in our bench in the first place, and now we have to worry about finding guys to help rest our starters.  Young guys are the ideal back-ups because they don't tire as easily and they need first-hand experience anyway.  Unfortunately the 3 young guys on our bench don't play.  They are the guys who are supposed to be giving us depth.  If we had no intention to ever put them in the game I'm not sure why we've held on to them.

House has proved to be a much better backup PG then any of the backup wings have proven to be backup swings.


And minutes do matter when players get older.  It takes longer to come back from nagging injuries that are caused by alot of minutes. 

I totally agree that House has been invaluable to us, but, and I won't tire of saying this, we need him to roam free - away from the ball.

We can't give him PG duties and expect him to have the same impact he has off the ball.  We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we go down that path.

[wdleehi]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see what the panic is for a wing player?  I'm much more concerned with a backup PG.

Screw Tony Allen; I think Walker and Giddens can fill the void.

I'd much rather see them than to pay a good chunk of change to bring in a player and hope they work out.  We're really freaking out because we may not get Rodney Carney or Udoka?  And Matt Barnes would be a terrible fit.

Worst Case Scenario: Walker and Giddens fail, and we package some players for a wing later in the year.  There are plenty of wing players in the NBA.

There are few quality point guards that we can get to handle the load while Rondo's on the bench.  And let's not forget how important it is to relieve House of PG duties -- we need him roaming free, getting shots, not bringing the ball up the court.

Forget backup wing - go get a PG!

The problem with this is the age of our wing players. If we don't have a good back up wing we can still win. However, our stars will decline as the season goes on which hurts us a little this year but could shorten our window by several years.

How many times have players and coaches said fatigue is never a factor?  Minutes are becoming overrated, basketball players are some of the most conditioned athletes in the world.  I agree with Aaron, a back-up PG should be our first priority.
He's also right that no one should be freaking out about not getting anybody.  It's embarrassing that we came into the off season with 4-5 holes in our bench in the first place, and now we have to worry about finding guys to help rest our starters.  Young guys are the ideal back-ups because they don't tire as easily and they need first-hand experience anyway.  Unfortunately the 3 young guys on our bench don't play.  They are the guys who are supposed to be giving us depth.  If we had no intention to ever put them in the game I'm not sure why we've held on to them.

House has proved to be a much better backup PG then any of the backup wings have proven to be backup swings.


And minutes do matter when players get older.  It takes longer to come back from nagging injuries that are caused by alot of minutes. 

I totally agree that House has been invaluable to us, but, and I won't tire of saying this, we need him to roam free - away from the ball.

We can't give him PG duties and expect him to have the same impact he has off the ball.  We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we go down that path.

I agree, a large PG that allows him to be more of a SG would be great.


But the backup behind Ray and Pierce is a bigger hole right now.

[Aaron]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see what the panic is for a wing player?  I'm much more concerned with a backup PG.

Screw Tony Allen; I think Walker and Giddens can fill the void.

I'd much rather see them than to pay a good chunk of change to bring in a player and hope they work out.  We're really freaking out because we may not get Rodney Carney or Udoka?  And Matt Barnes would be a terrible fit.

Worst Case Scenario: Walker and Giddens fail, and we package some players for a wing later in the year.  There are plenty of wing players in the NBA.

There are few quality point guards that we can get to handle the load while Rondo's on the bench.  And let's not forget how important it is to relieve House of PG duties -- we need him roaming free, getting shots, not bringing the ball up the court.

Forget backup wing - go get a PG!

The problem with this is the age of our wing players. If we don't have a good back up wing we can still win. However, our stars will decline as the season goes on which hurts us a little this year but could shorten our window by several years.

How many times have players and coaches said fatigue is never a factor?  Minutes are becoming overrated, basketball players are some of the most conditioned athletes in the world.  I agree with Aaron, a back-up PG should be our first priority.
He's also right that no one should be freaking out about not getting anybody.  It's embarrassing that we came into the off season with 4-5 holes in our bench in the first place, and now we have to worry about finding guys to help rest our starters.  Young guys are the ideal back-ups because they don't tire as easily and they need first-hand experience anyway.  Unfortunately the 3 young guys on our bench don't play.  They are the guys who are supposed to be giving us depth.  If we had no intention to ever put them in the game I'm not sure why we've held on to them.

House has proved to be a much better backup PG then any of the backup wings have proven to be backup swings.


And minutes do matter when players get older.  It takes longer to come back from nagging injuries that are caused by alot of minutes. 

I totally agree that House has been invaluable to us, but, and I won't tire of saying this, we need him to roam free - away from the ball.

We can't give him PG duties and expect him to have the same impact he has off the ball.  We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we go down that path.

I agree, a large PG that allows him to be more of a SG would be great.


But the backup behind Ray and Pierce is a bigger hole right now.

We need scoring off the bench.  House can give us that.  Who left in the big bins of discount swingman can we get to give us points? 

I think that Giddens and Walker have the tools, today, to fill the void at 2/3, and to potentially grow into something special (not HOF special, but solid rotation special).

[timepiece33]

A large quality PG allows House to be the primary backup to Ray Allen ... a point that gets lost here.

While I agree that I would prefer a 6'7" type player who can defend the SF and SG (which FYI is not Barnes strongsuit), I'd be perfectly content with a PG like Dooling and then bringing in a vet SF/SG type with the minimum. 

[KG_ended_Bias]

My question is how much is Marbury asking for? I thought it was pretty important to bring him back rather than a backup 3. I like Walker's toughness & aggression, Giddens seem to be decent in the Summer & there is always Gerald Green. But I think we need a true point in Stephon because Rondo turns a ankle every 12 games or so it seems.

[wdleehi]

A large quality PG allows House to be the primary backup to Ray Allen ... a point that gets lost here.

While I agree that I would prefer a 6'7" type player who can defend the SF and SG (which FYI is not Barnes strongsuit), I'd be perfectly content with a PG like Dooling and then bringing in a vet SF/SG type with the minimum. 

But not Pierce's backup. 


Celtics need someone that can do both.

[Aaron]

A large quality PG allows House to be the primary backup to Ray Allen ... a point that gets lost here.

While I agree that I would prefer a 6'7" type player who can defend the SF and SG (which FYI is not Barnes strongsuit), I'd be perfectly content with a PG like Dooling and then bringing in a vet SF/SG type with the minimum. 

Thank you!  Someone else that understands my point...

[timepiece33]

But not Pierce's backup. 

Celtics need someone that can do both.

The Celtics need a backup to Pierce.  A move for Dooling gives them the flexibility for that backup to not have to be able to play the 2 (which appears to fit with most of the backup SF's available. I don't believe Barnes or Joey Graham can play the 2 guard consistently). 

So I'd rather make an offer of Allen and one of the kids for Dooling AND then look to use the LLE on a reasonable option like Barnes OR Graham.   

[ThaPreacher]

You would have more validity in your post if you hadn't made it seem like you think Green is a good basketball player, which he is not.

The Celtics have never had a good Barnes!  But they have had some good Green!