Ainge is a Punk!

[BudweiserCeltic]

I am upset with them also, but their problem was more of a consequence of injury and fatigue, which I would put a chunk of the blame on Doc if it weren't for all those overtime games in the Chicago series.

I know Rajon was injured too, but in his case it was not an excuse to play poor defense especially by making bad decisions... it's not an excuse to not push the ball. I'm not here complaining about his poor shooting or anything like that, I'm complaining about things he can control... play with speed, put effort defensively, and make good decisions with the ball.  He did all this things quite well in various games against Chicago, so he was fully capable of keeping it up against Orlando. Hell, even himself talked about it in some press conferences that he has trouble pushing the pace from a mental standpoint.

fine, but Ray and Paul also played well in some games....so why are you so quick to attribute their down games to injury and Doc, but call Rondo out ONLY due to his unwillingness to play hard every night.

look, I'm not saying i disagree that Rondo needs to mature and be more consistent, but guess what, it wasn't that long ago that Pierce had that ridiculous press conference with the bandage on his head after the game in Indiana.....and he was A LOT further in his career than Rondo is right now.

Ray because his strength is in his shooting and the type of injury he had greatly affects that. Also, not necessarily in the Magic series, but in some of the Chicago games that he played poorly I put some of the blame on Rondo because of how he was running the offense. Just the same I give Rondo a ton of credit when he does what he's supposed to do and Ray goes off. Also, I never give too much grief to someone simply because they're not making shots... just the same that I don't criticize Rondo for not making shots.

Pierce because he at least puts a good effort on defense and he can be seen visibly fatigued, plus they're constantly double teaming him off Rondo which makes his job that more difficult. But surely, I expected more from him regardless. As for the bandages thing, I never had a problem with that. I really don't care for these types of things.

But this once again all comes down to the level of control and responsibility Rondo has running our offense. I'd had little problem with him in this regard if we gave the ball up to Pierce, for example, and he would run the team and when he gets doubled Rondo is capable of being a threat out there (and he can be a threat without being a good shooter). Rondo's poor play has a bigger impact on our team than any other player, including Pierce because of this.

In all, I was quite dissatisfied with the effort from most of our players... but I think Rondo's was the one I was most dissapointed with because of the level of cotrol he has in running our offense and because I thought he had the control and the means to play a lot better, more than anyone else.

[winsomme]

I am upset with them also, but their problem was more of a consequence of injury and fatigue, which I would put a chunk of the blame on Doc if it weren't for all those overtime games in the Chicago series.

I know Rajon was injured too, but in his case it was not an excuse to play poor defense especially by making bad decisions... it's not an excuse to not push the ball. I'm not here complaining about his poor shooting or anything like that, I'm complaining about things he can control... play with speed, put effort defensively, and make good decisions with the ball.  He did all this things quite well in various games against Chicago, so he was fully capable of keeping it up against Orlando. Hell, even himself talked about it in some press conferences that he has trouble pushing the pace from a mental standpoint.

fine, but Ray and Paul also played well in some games....so why are you so quick to attribute their down games to injury and Doc, but call Rondo out ONLY due to his unwillingness to play hard every night.

look, I'm not saying i disagree that Rondo needs to mature and be more consistent, but guess what, it wasn't that long ago that Pierce had that ridiculous press conference with the bandage on his head after the game in Indiana.....and he was A LOT further in his career than Rondo is right now.

Ray because his strength is in his shooting and the type of injury he had greatly affects that. Also, not necessarily in the Magic series, but in some of the Chicago games that he played poorly I put some of the blame on Rondo because of how he was running the offense. Just the same I give Rondo a ton of credit when he does what he's supposed to do and Ray goes off. Also, I never give too much grief to someone simply because they're not making shots... just the same that I don't criticize Rondo for not making shots.

Pierce because he at least puts a good effort on defense and he can be seen visibly fatigued, plus they're constantly double teaming him off Rondo which makes his job that more difficult. But surely, I expected more from him regardless. As for the bandages thing, I never had a problem with that. I really don't care for these types of things.

But this once again all comes down to the level of control and responsibility Rondo has running our offense. I'd had little problem with him in this regard if we gave the ball up to Pierce, for example, and he would run the team and when he gets doubled Rondo is capable of being a threat out there (and he can be a threat without being a good shooter). Rondo's poor play has a bigger impact on our team than any other player, including Pierce because of this.

In all, I was quite dissatisfied with the effort from most of our players... but I think Rondo's was the one I was most dissapointed with because of the level of cotrol he has in running our offense and because I thought he had the control and the means to play a lot better, more than anyone else.

sure, he has a lot of control as a PG, but i think you are dismissing the wear and tear on Rondo in a way that is not fair to him.

hamstrings are important to a shooter, but ankles aren't important to a PG?

I agree about the importance of the PG in our offense by the way, and that is why I'm glad that it doesn't look like Rondo isn't going anywhere. and I think his main issues are maturity related, but like i pointed out with Pierce, EVERY young player goes through a growing process...

and it seems to me that that aspect is not acknowledged with Rondo in that same way as it is with other players.

personally, I think Bron should major maturity issues in how he played and handled himself in the ECF. that doesn't mean you start an initiative to move him out of town.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The problem winsomme is that this is not something new for Rondo. He's had trouble with these things since his first year with the Celtics, so that he didn't do them is not a consequence of him being injured. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt regarding this.

He's always struggled with consistency. I have zero problem with his ability, in fact, that I have no problem with his skills and abilities makes it more frustrating. For example, there were some great stretches earlier in the year when Rondo was playing out of his mind and our team was playing it's best basketball, but after that, Rondo was up and down again.

So that his injuries might've bothered him? Sure, but evidence suggest that his problems with pace, decision making, poor defense stem from somewhere else. Something mental, something about consistency period.

I know he'll get better, but that doens't mean that I don't think his current trade value for him could be high and we can get better players who I feel would serve this team better. I really liked that trade idea with Gay and Conley for example.

[winsomme]

The problem winsomme is that this is not something new for Rondo. He's had trouble with these things since his first year with the Celtics, so that he didn't do them is not a consequence of him being injured. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt regarding this.

He's always struggled with consistency. I have zero problem with his ability, in fact, that I have no problem with his skills and abilities makes it more frustrating. For example, there were some great stretches earlier in the year when Rondo was playing out of his mind and our team was playing it's best basketball, but after that, Rondo was up and down again.

So that his injuries might've bothered him? Sure, but evidence suggest that his problems with pace, decision making, poor defense stem from somewhere else. Something mental, something about consistency period.

I know he'll get better, but that doens't mean that I don't think his current trade value for him could be high and we can get better players who I feel would serve this team better. I really liked that trade idea with Gay and Conley for example.

wow. I think his decision making is actually one of his strengths. I love how he sees the floor and gets the ball to players right where they need it at the time when they need it.

consistency is a maturity issue and it makes sense that it has been issue in the past because in the past he was YOUNGER...

I don't know, I think you are too hard on him. I mean, haven't you seen any growth in the consistency department? I thought he was way more consistent this year than last...

anyway, I don't think selling high on him is an option right now. IMO the team has raised too many warning flags on him...

[BudweiserCeltic]

wow. I think his decision making is actually one of his strengths. I love how he sees the floor and gets the ball to players right where they need it at the right time.

He sees that floor well, but that's the extent of it. He needs to improve his timing of passes quite a bit and his passes are not consistenly accurate at all. These are two things I want him to improve the most on. For example, he often waits too long to give the ball to Ray when he comes off screens. If he passed the ball as he did in that game winner in the playoffs when he hit Ray at the right time, we would be very golden. But that's not the norm with him.

Ill advised shot, not taking advantage of a weak matchup, not shooting when he should (though he improved on this) not pushing the ball as he should... all of these things factor into not liking his decision making, as most of these things are a consequence of a decision he made, something he can control. Gambling on defense, not staying in front of his dender also.

[winsomme]

wow. I think his decision making is actually one of his strengths. I love how he sees the floor and gets the ball to players right where they need it at the right time.

He sees that floor well, but that's the extent of it. He needs to improve his timing of passes quite a bit and his passes are not consistenly accurate at all. These are two things I want him to improve the most on. For example, he often waits too long to give the ball to Ray when he comes off screens. If he passed the ball as he did in that game winner in the playoffs when he hit Ray at the right time, we would be very golden. But that's not the norm with him.

Ill advised shot, not taking advantage of a weak matchup, not shooting when he should (though he improved on this) not pushing the ball as he should... all of these things factor into not liking his decision making, as most of these things are a consequence of a decision he made, something he can control. Gambling on defense, not staying in front of his dender also.

I'll give you gambling on defense and tending to slack off on pushing the ball like he should consistently enough....but the rest we are way off on.

I think he is already masterful at running the offense. I think that actually is why some have put him up with the top PGs in the whole league.

now getting him to do it on a more consistent basis, yeah that needs to happen and has already happened...like i said, there was a big jump in that department from last year to this...

[johnnyrondo]

You guys have hijacked this thread with this Rondo nonsense. Stay on the topic of Ainge being a punk please. 

[paintitgreen]

I actually thought Ainge's interview was fantastic. It was a refreshingly honest and in my opinion extremely accurate analysis of the current state of Rondo's game and his feelings moving forward. I personally like honesty from anybody in a position of power because it's so rare, and I particularly like it from Ainge because I have often felt - perhaps unfairly - that he is not forthright in what he says.

I would also say that I did not find Ainge's comments hypercritical of Rondo at all. Yes, he pointed out that Rondo needs to be more consistent with his effort on both ends of the court and can't keep taking plays off. That's criticism, but isn't that true? Yes, he said that other teams (particularly Orlando this year) completely ignoring Rondo hurts the spacing for Pierce and Ray, but isn't that true? Yes, he said that Rondo needs to work on maturity because stuff like sitting in the parking lot past the time set for reporting to the locker room is unacceptable, but again, isn't that true? Keep in mind, he said at least once that the tone of the conversation was centering too much on Rondo and he could say the same for many players on the team. In fact, he specifically pointed out that there are also guys on the team in their 30s (Pierce? Garnett? Allen?) who need to work on maturity, and he denied that Rondo is any type of negative factor on the team.

On the contrary, Ainge said that Rondo is not a problem to work with, is not uncoachable and there is no friction with Doc. He also said that Rondo was a "tremendous talent," a top 10 point guard right now, and "certainly in the conversation" as a top 5 point guard right now. He accurately pointed out, though, that having a top point guard is not the necessity everybody seems to believe it is, citing to the 80s Celtics, 90s Bulls, and 00s Lakers as teams who won it all without a true point guard. Then, he simply said, in response to a direct question, that he doesn't believe Rondo is a max-contract player right now.

Again, isn't that true? I mean, if you're the type of person who believes there are 50+ players in the NBA deserving of max contracts, then sure, maybe he's a max contract player. But I personally believe that only about 20-25 players tops deserve max contracts, and I don't think Rondo is one of the 25 best players in the NBA.

[xmuscularghandix]

Danny Ainge > Johnny Rotten.

[bbd24]

I don't understand Boston fans.  They rip Ainge apart just a couple years back, then praise him after #17.  Now, their back at it.

Don't you feel like an idiot calling Ainge a punk ?  When just a couple years back you had trade bait like J.R. Bremer on the roster.

I feel lucky to have Mr. Ainge ( could of easily been in Portland or Sac ).  Because of him, we actually have trade pieces that people want.

[johnnyrondo]

I don't understand Boston fans.  They rip Ainge apart just a couple years back, then praise him after #17.  Now, their back at it.

Don't you feel like an idiot calling Ainge a punk ?  When just a couple years back you had trade bait like J.R. Bremer on the roster.

I feel lucky to have Mr. Ainge ( could of easily been in Portland or Sac ).  Because of him, we actually have trade pieces that people want.

Not sure how much more trade value Gabe Pruitt has than J.R. Bremer, but your entitled to your opinion.

[paintitgreen]

I think the point was JR Bremer was the closest we had to a point guard with upside, while now we have Rajon Rondo.

Agree completely with bbd24. I was as much an Ainge basher as anybody, but the dude got a title within 5 (?) years. And a team far better positioned for the future, too. I don't see why you'd bash a guy for giving an honest evaluation of a guy who was not highly touted and he took with the 18th (?) pick in the draft.

[bbd24]

Exactly Paintitgreen.

People need to relax and get off Ainge's butt.  The guy is as honest as a GM can be.  He's [dang] smart, and I'd trust him with any move.  Their is a reason we now are a championship caliber team.  I'm not saying give him all the credit, but I'm saying get off his back.  His team just won 66 and 62 in consecutive years.  Most on here were praying a couple years back that he'd get them back to 40 wins.

Ainge wants what you and I want.  Another championship.  He's going to overturn every rock their is to make this team better.  In turn, we'll hear about every rumor and every player being traded.  Thats just the business.  He has to make calls, and field them.  Why not ?  If the package is right, he's going to make that move.

[tenn_smoothie]

rajon rondo has huge talent and also big deficiencies in his game - he is a bit unusual in that there is not a lot of middle ground in his game.

danny ainge, i believe is over-rated as our GM. he has made some solid late draft choices and really, one great trade (for kevin garnett).

his down side includes a propensity to make impulsive trades which often turn out badly and which he tries to fix with another impulsive trade. he also has changed the rebuilding plan for the Celtics several times (going young & athletic one season followed by signing veterans of questionable character the next)until he finally stumbled on a winning combination when he aquired kevin garnett.

we finally win a long-awaited 17th title and what does ainge do ?? he allows our most important bench player to sign with another team because he is worried about year 4 of a team with a three-year window to win titles ........ what conclusion did ainge make that allowed him to let james posey get away .......... the insane conclusion that tony allen could step right into the key 6th man role and replace a player full of basketball IQ, big-game savvy and intangibles that made this team better in every facet of the game.

so danny ainge is not screwing up these days ...... he's just reverting back down to his normal level of incompetence.

[bunnywhi7e]

I can't believe how come some people are blind and calling Ainge names. A guy who got us the 17th championship and got us Garnett. A guy who is a draft master, who developed fine young players used them and got us a HOF with few more years of championship type of basketball.

I believe Ainge will do whatever he can to make this team better.