Celtics going after Amare Stoudamire ?

[wdleehi]

Interesting 'connecting the dots' on your part.  It does make sense.  You make a convincing case, though I keep thinking we could keep Perk and still get Amare. Having Perk, KG, and Amare would mean dividing up 96 minutes for three people.  That's easily doable, even for Doc.  It would seem that BBD would be cut loose.

Can you also tell me where Jimmy Hoffa is?

I think the high pick is the key now for Amare.  Phoenix needs to get back more then cap relief. 

yea if it came down to giving up Rondo or Perk for Stoudamire it has to be Perk. Rondo does so many more things than Perk and a PG/PF duo of Rondo and Stoudamire would be deadly for the next 10+ seasons .

Right, and regardless of individual value, it just makes more sense to trade a big man for Amare, because it does not leave as much of a hole as it would if they traded both backcourt starters.

Honestly, I think this is an interesting trade.  It makes more sense than the one I had proposed yesterday where we got back Barbosa.  Richardson could step right in for Ray, and be a decent replacement, and only has one extra year on his contract, while Barbosa would be a very expensive backup PG.

True.  Amare has to buy into what the Celtics do.  Defense. 


Being shoulder to shoulder with KG could go a long way towards that.

This obviously is the biggest question in any Amare trade (assuming he gets a clean bill of health).  I am really of the opinion that Amare didn't play defense, because he was never asked to, or held accountable when he didnt.  The only time they actually asked him to play defense was at the beginning of last year, but because the whole team was against Porter, his teammates did not hold him accountable.  

Obviously, there is always a concern when a player like Amare has simply never done it.  But I am not ready to write him off as someone who CAN'T or WON'T play defense.  We have seen first hand what the change in culture of a team can do to players.  

Just look at Paul Pierce who completely stopped playing defense for about 3-4 years before KG came in and reminded him that he used to be one of the best young defenders in the league.  

The fact that KG and Pierce would be here to hold him accountable would make a huge difference in his effort level on defense IMO.

I agree he has the tools.  And on the Celtics, he would be asked (to put it nicely) by the team leaders. 


It is still a worry when adding a player.

[ssspence]

Amare likes to operate out of the high post -- as does KG. He also wants the spotlight and touches before going into his next contract. Playing with KG is suddenly going to make him care about winning and defense?

[Chris]

I agree he has the tools.  And on the Celtics, he would be asked (to put it nicely) by the team leaders. 


It is still a worry when adding a player.

And this is why standing pat, and just adding a couple veteran role players is the safest route to another year of contention, and why I think it is what they will end up doing.  

No matter who they add, you have no idea how they are going to fit into the team.  

It's tough, because this team absolutely had something special two years ago, and even if they kept the same team completely intact, it would have been almost impossible to repeat the magic they had.  Everything came together perfectly, and that rarely happens.

So the tough balancing act Danny now has is to balance what they had with what they could have in the future.  When you have a team that good, its a huge risk to completely tear it apart, because you may never get the magic back, but at the same time, if you stand pat too long, things will get stale, and it will just be a disapointment.

I just don't envy Danny at all right now.  He is in an incredibly difficult spot.  He either risks the team slowly fading back into obscurity, by not trying to do something bold to keep them at the top, but if he does do something too bold, he could disrupt the delicate balance they had, and they could fall into obscurity anyways.  So basically, he is relying on luck again.  And we just have to hope it hasn't run out.

[rondohondo]

Amare likes to operate out of the high post -- as does KG. He also wants the spotlight and touches before going into his next contract. Playing with KG is suddenly going to make him care about winning and defense?

What makes you think he doesn't care about wining ? A few years ago they would have been in the Finals if the NBA didn't suspend him from the San Antonio series.

This guy is a stud and the most efficient scorers in the league. If you can get him without giving up Rondo you do it

[bobdelt]

Amare likes to operate out of the high post -- as does KG. He also wants the spotlight and touches before going into his next contract. Playing with KG is suddenly going to make him care about winning and defense?

It happens all the time. As mentioned earlier with Pierce. That doesn't mean it'll happen with Amare.

But Amare learned to play with Shaq - who demands the ball in the post more so than KG, I think KG and Amare will compliment each other much better. Just think of the offensive rebounds!

[MrTripleDouble10]

The most important factor with Amare is that detached retina surgery.  This is no joke guys.  I had a conversation about this with my opthamologist and in his opinion, he thinks Stoudemire is crazy to keep playing.  Clearly, every doctor will have a varied opinion about this, but this isn't like recovering from some kind of orthopedic procedure.  I asked him if getting hit in the head (intentionally or unintentionally) could cause it to become undetached again, and he said without hesistation, yes.

Amare is a great talent no doubt, but I think this would be a MAJOR risk.

[bobdelt]

Amare likes to operate out of the high post -- as does KG. He also wants the spotlight and touches before going into his next contract. Playing with KG is suddenly going to make him care about winning and defense?

What makes you think he doesn't care about wining ? A few years ago they would have been in the Finals if the NBA didn't suspend him from the San Antonio series.

This guy is a stud and the most efficient scorers in the league. If you can get him without giving up Rondo you do it

Amare and Rondo could be like Duncan and Parker - you could be set for a decade. Although, Amare might not be as good and Rondo needs a shot, but Parker didnt have one at first either. Plus we have KG and PP in the mean time.

[wdleehi]

I agree he has the tools.  And on the Celtics, he would be asked (to put it nicely) by the team leaders. 


It is still a worry when adding a player.

And this is why standing pat, and just adding a couple veteran role players is the safest route to another year of contention, and why I think it is what they will end up doing.  

No matter who they add, you have no idea how they are going to fit into the team.  

It's tough, because this team absolutely had something special two years ago, and even if they kept the same team completely intact, it would have been almost impossible to repeat the magic they had.  Everything came together perfectly, and that rarely happens.

So the tough balancing act Danny now has is to balance what they had with what they could have in the future.  When you have a team that good, its a huge risk to completely tear it apart, because you may never get the magic back, but at the same time, if you stand pat too long, things will get stale, and it will just be a disapointment.

I just don't envy Danny at all right now.  He is in an incredibly difficult spot.  He either risks the team slowly fading back into obscurity, by not trying to do something bold to keep them at the top, but if he does do something too bold, he could disrupt the delicate balance they had, and they could fall into obscurity anyways.  So basically, he is relying on luck again.  And we just have to hope it hasn't run out.

I agree that keeping the starting 5 intact is the best route to win another title.

But I think a lot of people envy Ainge right now.  He has the best starting 5.  He has an owner willing to spend to re-enforce the bench.  There are many vet players out there that can fit.  

And in season, he has the expirering contracts of Scali and TA to play with.  


Ainge doesn't need to get lucky this season.  He needs to get smart again (like he did when he signed House and Posey)

[ssspence]

Amare likes to operate out of the high post -- as does KG. He also wants the spotlight and touches before going into his next contract. Playing with KG is suddenly going to make him care about winning and defense?

What makes you think he doesn't care about wining ? A few years ago they would have been in the Finals if the NBA didn't suspend him from the San Antonio series.

This guy is a stud and the most efficient scorers in the league. If you can get him without giving up Rondo you do it

Since it's impossible to define that 'care for winning', i'll say i think two things: 1) he struggles to fit in well / make sacrifices with other big name teammates, and 2) his eye is a major concern -- not sure if you've read the articles about it, but from what i've seen it's seriously scary in terms of likelyhood it heals fully.

look, who wouldn't want Amare of that SAS series era on a team like the Suns? i'd be very happy to have the guy if he can recover, his knees hold up, he's willing to play D, he can fit in with Paul, KG and Rondo, if if if if... losta ifs.

[rondohondo]

Here's a trade that could work

Bos sends:   Ray, Perk, BBD( S+T), Walker Scal

Bos receives: Stoudamire, Richardson


Pho sends:    Stoudamire, Richardson
Pho receices: Ray ( 18MIL Exp), Cardinal(6 Mil Exp),
                     Madsen(2 Mil Exp), # 6 pick

Min Sends:    Cardinal, Madsen, #6
Min Receives: Perk, BBD, Walker

Minny gets Perk to move Big AL to PF and get a backup PF that would allow them to trade Love for another piece

[screwedupmaniac]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=29054.30;topicseen

i posted basically the same thing last night, it would certainly be interesting to see how it all worked out, and it will be interesting to see how close (or far off) from reality we are come draft night 

[nickagneta]

You know, when I connect all the dos on what came out this morning I come out with the idea that the Suns just so happen to like Tyreke Evans like the Celtics do and that they will probably move up to the Wizards #5 picks and take him while Washington will trade down to #14. There could also be some players going both ways but I don't see Amare going to Washington and I don't see either Phoenix or Washington taking on each others long term contracts.

I just don't see that Boston fits in this.

I actually think that the draft will go by and the Celtics will pick 58th and then stash the kid overseas for a year or two.

[wdleehi]

You know, when I connect all the dos on what came out this morning I come out with the idea that the Suns just so happen to like Tyreke Evans like the Celtics do and that they will probably move up to the Wizards #5 picks and take him while Washington will trade down to #14. There could also be some players going both ways but I don't see Amare going to Washington and I don't see either Phoenix or Washington taking on each others long term contracts.

I just don't see that Boston fits in this.

I actually think that the draft will go by and the Celtics will pick 58th and then stash the kid overseas for a year or two.

I agree with that.

[ssspence]

I agree he has the tools.  And on the Celtics, he would be asked (to put it nicely) by the team leaders. 


It is still a worry when adding a player.

And this is why standing pat, and just adding a couple veteran role players is the safest route to another year of contention, and why I think it is what they will end up doing.  

No matter who they add, you have no idea how they are going to fit into the team.  

It's tough, because this team absolutely had something special two years ago, and even if they kept the same team completely intact, it would have been almost impossible to repeat the magic they had.  Everything came together perfectly, and that rarely happens.

So the tough balancing act Danny now has is to balance what they had with what they could have in the future.  When you have a team that good, its a huge risk to completely tear it apart, because you may never get the magic back, but at the same time, if you stand pat too long, things will get stale, and it will just be a disapointment.

I just don't envy Danny at all right now.  He is in an incredibly difficult spot.  He either risks the team slowly fading back into obscurity, by not trying to do something bold to keep them at the top, but if he does do something too bold, he could disrupt the delicate balance they had, and they could fall into obscurity anyways.  So basically, he is relying on luck again.  And we just have to hope it hasn't run out.

I agree that keeping the starting 5 intact is the best route to win another title.

But I think a lot of people envy Ainge right now.  He has the best starting 5.  He has an owner willing to spend to re-enforce the bench.  There are many vet players out there that can fit.  

And in season, he has the expirering contracts of Scali and TA to play with.  


Ainge doesn't need to get lucky this season.  He needs to get smart again (like he did when he signed House and Posey)

Keep the team with House and Pruitt, add Hill (for leadership / ballhandling), Ross (for defense) and McDyess (for size / rebounding). All should fit in the LLE and MLE combined.

If you wanna buy a pick to get Sam Young or Chase Budinger, do that too. As you point out, trade options will be there with our expiring deals during the season.

[nickagneta]

So I have a strange feeling that Danny is going to try and go after Amare Stoudamire hard on draft day or shortly after.

Why I think this has a chance of happening

1) It appears that the Phoenix Suns are trying to move
          up in the draft to acquire Tyreke Evans.

http://ktar.com/?sid=1179562&nid=624

On the draft front, Phoenix would love to move up to have a shot at Memphis' Tyreke Evans or Davidson's Stephen Curry, but if they stay at 14 there are several players they have their eyes on right now, including Louisville's Earl Clark and Terrence Williams, Wake Forest's James Johnson, Duke's Gerald Henderson or North Carolina's Wayne Ellington.

Thats funny because what we have been hearing is that Danny Ainge love Tyreke Evans for some strange reason . hmmmmmmm

2) According to Marc Spears the Celtics offered the Grizzlies Perk and Walker for #2 . That means with Perk gone we would have a big hole at Center. Now I know Stoudamire is really a PF, but played the first 5 years of his career as a Center . There are really no Centers in the East besides Dwight Howard, but if Gasol and Bynum can hold him in check I feel pretty confident KG and Stoudamire could control him.


3) Today they are saying that Stoudamire for a high pick and expiring contracts has a good chance of going down

I'm hearing a deal, which would revolve around Phoenix's Amar'e Stoudemire and the Wizards' top pick, has a decent chance of going down.

http://my.journaltimes.com/post/woelfel-world-of-sports/draft_winds_change_for_bucks.html


So connect the Dots

1.- Celtics trying to get a high draft pick and are 
           rumored to like Tyreke Evans
         
         - The Suns would be willing to move Stoudamire for a 
          high draft pick and rumored to like Tyreke Evans or
          someone else up higher in the lottery.

2 - Perk has been offered for the #2 Pick which would
          leave a hole at Center
         
          - Why would the Celtics move Perk unless they   
            thought they could acquire someone who is better
           and a franchise type player. That would be
            Stoudamire.

3 The suns would like Expiring contracts in return and the Celtics have one of the biggest expiring contracts this year with Ray Allen.


If the Celtics were somehow able to acquire a top 5-10 pick for say Perk, Walker and BBD( S+T) , then they could do this trade with Phoenix..

Bos sends: Ray , Scal , Giddens + Top 5-10 Pick

Pho sends: Stoudamire, Richardson


Why for Boston

Boston gets a franchise type big man. in 2007-08 Stoudamire averaged 28 PPG after the all-star break and was the most efficient scorer in the league . They also get a good SG to replace Ray with in the starting lineup who would now be the 5th option behind PP, Stoudamire, KG and Rondo.

PG: Rondo          / Marbury ( Vet Min)
SG: Richardson     / House
SF: Pierce         / Grant Hill ( Vet Min)
PF: KG             / McDyess  ( LLE)
 C: Stoudamire     / Zaza ( MLE

Why for Phoenix

According to a lot of Articles the Suns are looking for a high draft pick and cap space for Stoudamire. This trade would solve both problems. They get a top 5-10 pick so they can draft Tyreke Evans , They get 20+ MIL in expiring contracts and save about 31 MIL over the next 2 years.

This trade would also give Phoenix a TON of cap space for the 2010 Free Agents. They will have over 40 MIL in cap space if they just let Nash Ray and Shaq's contract expire .

After re-reading this I have to ask this, how does Phoenix get the top 5 pick because at the moment they only have the 14th? It's all a nice sceario but you fail to mention how Phoenix gets a hold of the top 5 pick.