Author Topic: C's interested in acquiring the second pick?  (Read 69825 times)

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Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2009, 02:52:36 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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I see this as a smokescreen, but I'm not sure what they're trying to cover up!

A threeway where we get Blake Griffin  :D

Re: Rubio is the real deal... but don't trade Ray Ray
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2009, 02:55:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  Two summers ago Mike Conley was the best pg prospect in years, with instincts better than Isaiah Thomas. Last year Derrick Rose (like Conley the year before) was better than Rondo before he ever set foot on an nba court. This year it's Rubio. I don't know that I'd gamble the rest of our window that he'll be a star as a rookie or even a sophomore.
As someone who was never a fan of Conley, it seemed to me he rose in the draft due to a lack of point guards and his exposure by playing on OSU with Oden. He started of predicted to go in the teens and then slowly worked his way up since there were no other PG prospects.

Rose, on the other hand, was legit and was a much better talent than Conley coming into the draft, so I don't get the comparison. Since Rose was already at near all star level last year, I also don't get why you mention Rose in a post about risk.

  Not comparing the players, just mentioning that every summer I hear about pgs that are going to be stars from day 1. It rarely happens.

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2009, 02:58:09 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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First time post, felt that I needed to put this out there.  3-way trade with Memphis and Miami.

Boston receives
2nd overall pick

Miami receives
Rajon Rondo ($2.6 million)

Memphis receives
Michael Beasley ($4.6 million)

Boston replaces Rondo with the cheaper and younger Rubio.  All of the talk about Rondo's extension, showing up late to playoff games, stubborn and moody attitude, etc... goes away and Rubio earns the Rookie Scale, saving the Celtics over the life of the deal.  Boston is taking back no salaries, so it works under the cap rules.

Miami is able to dump Beasley, which they are thought to be interested in doing, because of his poor work ethic, off-court issues, and aversion to defense while picking up the starting point guard and backcourt mate for Wade that they seek.  Rondo would fit very well into a defense that asks guards to be aggressive for steals and an offense that needs some punch besides Wade.  Riley never was too excited about Beasley and Chalmers is a good backup and has been in trouble a bit himself.  Miami is taking back $2 million less in salary, so it works under the cap rules.

Memphis picks up a better prospect that it would otherwise, as their glut of ballhandlers would prevent them from picking Rubio.  They get the #2 pick from a  stronger draft and with a year of experience.  It also gives them the blue chip big that they desperately need and were said to have coveted a year ago.  Memphis is under the salary cap, so it works under the cap rules.

Lineups:

Boston
Ricky Rubio
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Kendrick Perkins

Miami
Rajon Rondo
Dwayne Wade
Jamario Moon
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

Memphis
Mike Conley
O.J. Mayo
Rudy Gay
Michael Beasley
Marc Gasol

I think all three teams improve on the court, financially, etc.. and should jump at this deal.
How does this improve the Celtics on the floor? We are left without a legitimate starting PG! I like Rubio, but he is still just a young prospect. I also do not see how Rondo is only worth Rubio. Rondo should have more value than that.

It is bizarre to think the Celtics would be better on the floor with this trade when there is little reason to think we would see any substantial production from Rubio in his rookie season.

Re: Rubio is the real deal... but don't trade Ray Ray
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2009, 03:00:59 PM »

Offline MBz

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Maybe Danny wants Thabeet or Harden?
do it

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2009, 03:06:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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First time post, felt that I needed to put this out there.  3-way trade with Memphis and Miami.

Boston receives
2nd overall pick

Miami receives
Rajon Rondo ($2.6 million)

Memphis receives
Michael Beasley ($4.6 million)

Boston replaces Rondo with the cheaper and younger Rubio.  All of the talk about Rondo's extension, showing up late to playoff games, stubborn and moody attitude, etc... goes away and Rubio earns the Rookie Scale, saving the Celtics over the life of the deal.  Boston is taking back no salaries, so it works under the cap rules.

Miami is able to dump Beasley, which they are thought to be interested in doing, because of his poor work ethic, off-court issues, and aversion to defense while picking up the starting point guard and backcourt mate for Wade that they seek.  Rondo would fit very well into a defense that asks guards to be aggressive for steals and an offense that needs some punch besides Wade.  Riley never was too excited about Beasley and Chalmers is a good backup and has been in trouble a bit himself.  Miami is taking back $2 million less in salary, so it works under the cap rules.

Memphis picks up a better prospect that it would otherwise, as their glut of ballhandlers would prevent them from picking Rubio.  They get the #2 pick from a  stronger draft and with a year of experience.  It also gives them the blue chip big that they desperately need and were said to have coveted a year ago.  Memphis is under the salary cap, so it works under the cap rules.

Lineups:

Boston
Ricky Rubio
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Kendrick Perkins

Miami
Rajon Rondo
Dwayne Wade
Jamario Moon
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

Memphis
Mike Conley
O.J. Mayo
Rudy Gay
Michael Beasley
Marc Gasol

I think all three teams improve on the court, financially, etc.. and should jump at this deal.
How does this improve the Celtics on the floor? We are left without a legitimate starting PG! I like Rubio, but he is still just a young prospect. I also do not see how Rondo is only worth Rubio. Rondo should have more value than that.

It is bizarre to think the Celtics would be better on the floor with this trade when there is little reason to think we would see any substantial production from Rubio in his rookie season.
I'd rather just trade Rondo for Beasley.  I mean seriously Beasley is significantly better than Rubio.  Miami won't do that trade, not a chance in hell.
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Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2009, 03:12:40 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'd rather just trade Rondo for Beasley.  I mean seriously Beasley is significantly better than Rubio.  Miami won't do that trade, not a chance in hell.

Holy God, I knocked on wood just from reading that.  Beasley's got a ton of talent but there probably isn't a worse fit for our team defensively or character-wise.  Perk is the type to toughen up under the kind of "tough love" KG and the rest dish out; Beasley's the type to sulk and withdraw.  No thanks.

I don't understand why we'd get the 2nd pick if we're using it on Rubio.  If Danny had some elaborate plan to reswap it with another team for help next year, then maybe.  But I can't see us basically trading Rondo for Rubio straight up.  My guess is Danny's just exploring this to see what the cost of the pick would be.

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2009, 03:17:11 PM »

Offline Actionjakson

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I just want to point out that Rubio is garbage.

say what you want but this video is pretty sick

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xSBLKrZCkeU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xSBLKrZCkeU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

That being said, i dont know if i would want to give up Rondo for him unless we got something else. Like maybe rondo, giddens and a filler/future pick for #2 and Gay or #2 and Marc Gasol. Rubio looks good, but i wouldnt risk giving up our franchise point for an unproven rookie. However, if we could grab something else it would be a great trade


Rubio/Marbury                                                           Rubio/Marbury
Ray/House/walker                                                     Ray/House/Walker
PP/Scals                                   OR                               Paul/Gay/Scal
KG/BBD/Powe                                                             KG/BBD
Perk/Gasol                                                                   Perk/Powe

Either way, our team gets younger and deeper. This is before any signing of free agents too. If we could pull a deal like this i would be extatic. I love  Gay as a player, but i think getting Gasol might help us more, especially with the question marks on Powe's knee and BBD's contract
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Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2009, 03:19:06 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I  think everyone is seriously overrating Rondo after the Bulls playoff series.  Let's keep in mind that our star point guard shot 37% with over 3 turnovers a game in the Orlando series.  And his defense is severely overrated.  His "let an inferior player blow by me and try to poke the ball away from behind" strategy is horrid.  He also shot that 37% when Orlando's strategy was to leave him and Davis open as much as possible to send doubles at Paul and Ray.  So not only is he shooting very poorly, but he is hindering Paul and Ray with his inability to shoot.  Do we beat Orlando if our point guard shoots 40 instead of 37?  Doesn't that give us a few extra points in a close 7 game series?  

And dealing him for Rubio saves the Celtics big money when Rondo's extension comes into play, which is very soon.  It allows us to improve in other areas.  You can get an experienced backup and probably more for the difference between Rondo and Rubio.  Rondo's agent is probably angling for somewhere between 10-13 million, which is why Wyc and Danny don't want to talk extension yet.  Rubio will get paid between 4 and 5. You're talking about 8 million to be spent elsewhere.  If money was no factor, Posey would still be here.
 
 All of the talk about Rondo's extension, showing up late to playoff games, stubborn and moody attitude, etc... goes away but so does the contribution that he makes to the games. Even a lot of his detractors consider him at least a top 10 pg. If Rubio doesn't play at that level you've thrown away a year of our window around Paul and KG, plus they'd need to  sign a pg for the following season.
[/quote]

Re: Rubio is the real deal... but don't trade Ray Ray
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2009, 03:20:29 PM »

Offline Actionjakson

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Maybe Danny wants Thabeet or Harden?

Yeah, who says its guaranteed to be Rubio. Obviously he is the sexiest pick at #2 but Thabeet Fills a big need too. I guess if we got the second pick, we would have to see who we traded before we could decide on a pick
“We don't see ourselves as four All-Stars. We see ourselves as one unit. It's like five fingers on a hand. You can do more damage together as a fist than spread out flat.”
- Rasheed Wallace

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2009, 03:23:41 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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I'm sorry if this idea has been said already, but is it possible that the C's are in the talks to be a facilitator of the deal between Houston and Memphis and dump salary?I'm assuming that Houston is looking at Thabeet for insurance on the bench, Maybe the C's are hoping to help in this trade  to dump salary or snipe a player.

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2009, 03:26:40 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I  think everyone is seriously overrating Rondo after the Bulls playoff series.  Let's keep in mind that our star point guard shot 37% with over 3 turnovers a game in the Orlando series.  And his defense is severely overrated.  His "let an inferior player blow by me and try to poke the ball away from behind" strategy is horrid.  He also shot that 37% when Orlando's strategy was to leave him and Davis open as much as possible to send doubles at Paul and Ray.  So not only is he shooting very poorly, but he is hindering Paul and Ray with his inability to shoot.  Do we beat Orlando if our point guard shoots 40 instead of 37?  Doesn't that give us a few extra points in a close 7 game series?  

And dealing him for Rubio saves the Celtics big money when Rondo's extension comes into play, which is very soon.  It allows us to improve in other areas.  Y  Rondo's agent is probably angling for somewhere between 10-13 million, which is why Wyc and Danny don't want to talk extension yet.  Rubio will get paid between 4 and 5. You're talking about 8 million to be spent elsewhere.  If money was no factor, Posey would still be here.
 
 All of the talk about Rondo's extension, showing up late to playoff games, stubborn and moody attitude, etc... goes away but so does the contribution that he makes to the games. Even a lot of his detractors consider him at least a top 10 pg. If Rubio doesn't play at that level you've thrown away a year of our window around Paul and KG, plus they'd need to  sign a pg for the following season.
[/quote]

You can't get:

Quote
you can get an experienced backup and probably more for the difference between Rondo and Rubio.

because we'd still be well over cap, rubio or no. rondo's extension is a Possable cap hit, but we will still be over, even if you didn't extend rondo and took rubio.

It's an interesting idea, and you look to see what rondo's worth, but he's a top 10 PG. you dont trade those during a championship window for a kid who right now has just as many major flaws in his game as rondo does from what im reading, number 1 being the fact that scouts seriously question his ability to get his shot off at the NBA level, since It's pretty much a set shot.

If you trade rondo, you might as well trade ray for youth and picks and look into trading paul and KG, because it means you run up the white flag on this window.

You have maybe 2 years left on this thing before we go into rebuilding mode. It will take a least a year to get a 19 year old rubio comfortable enough to be a championship level starter, and that's being generous.

I think rubio will be excellent in the NBA, but he's not some flawless demi-PG god as some of the pro trade crowd here are touting. He's a yougn player with flaws, flaws that he will need to gain experiance to overcome.

now, IF your fine with that, then i understand this trade, but realize that it effectively runs the white flag up on this era of celtics basketball, and that ray should be out the door right behind rondo in the best interests of the franchise, and KG and paul should be shopped as well.



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Re: Rubio is the real deal... but don't trade Ray Ray
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2009, 03:30:18 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I'd be happy with Thabeet, i think he's an excellent defensive Center but will take time to develop an offensive game in this league (if he ever does)

Therefore this would be a perfect player for the Celtics. Our perfect backup Center and he's set to help us out either way.

Scenario 1: He plays better than expected and has the offensive ability to be a starter early in his career, so then we either have a player playing above what he's worth, or we can trade him to a team in need of a starting center for a more natural role player.

Scenario 2: He doesn't develop an offensive game in the years of his rookie contract, therefore allowing us to resign him at a reasonable price.

Scenario 3: We sign and trade him for a player lower on the ladder to a team that was hoping to get Thabeet.

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2009, 03:42:01 PM »

Offline Gomesfan

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I suppose this could make sense from Ainge's perspective if: 1) he's convinced Rubio is a future all-star; 2) he's convinced that Rubio could competently lead a team right now; 3) he's got serious concerns about Rondo's attitude and shooting ability; and 4) he's convinced that Rondo is going to sign a huge deal in restricted free agency next summer.

Under those very specific circumstances, I can see the Celtics dealing Rondo for Rubio and probably an additional piece. 

Tony + Rondo for Gay + Rubio?  That's probably too much from Memphis' perspective.

I love Rudy I Gay, I would like this deal.
Or if we could do a deal that consisted of ....
Rondo
Ray
BBD
TA
and we would
Recieve
2nd pick
Gay
Gasol or Mayo
L.A. Clippers
Derrick Rose Blake Griffin 4.11 5.3 5.15 6.11 7.15 8.11 9.15 10.11 11.15 12.11 13.15

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2009, 03:58:36 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I'm not sure that Rubio closes the window on this current Celtics run.  Let's keep in mind that Tony Parker won a title in his second season and was nowhere near as hot a prospect. 

And no, under the cap no additions can be made from the difference between Rubio's 4-5 million and Rondo's impending 11-12 million extension, but we could use expiring contracts / MLE to take on the difference.  Let's keep in mind that we did not use the full MLE this past season.  There's always more money out there.  Would Mike Bibby take a deal for the full mid-level for a year or two while Rubio sat behind him?  Are we sure that Rondo / Pruitt gives us a better shot in the next two years than Bibby / Rubio? 

And then we can trade Scal/Tony/Giddens/Pruitt for a backup big or a backup swingman.  Or could we trade Scal/Tony/Giddens/Pruitt for a more experienced point guard and use the MLE on a veteran big man. 

I don't think you pass on a possible star prospect because you don't want to deal an overrated poor shooting "top 10" point guard.  Rubio could potentially exceed top 10.  Also, Rondo might slip in that top 10 if not playing around three legit Hall of Fame players.

Re: C's interested in aquiring the second pick?
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2009, 04:00:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I  think everyone is seriously overrating Rondo after the Bulls playoff series.  Let's keep in mind that our star point guard shot 37% with over 3 turnovers a game in the Orlando series.  And his defense is severely overrated.  His "let an inferior player blow by me and try to poke the ball away from behind" strategy is horrid.  He also shot that 37% when Orlando's strategy was to leave him and Davis open as much as possible to send doubles at Paul and Ray.  So not only is he shooting very poorly, but he is hindering Paul and Ray with his inability to shoot.  Do we beat Orlando if our point guard shoots 40 instead of 37?  Doesn't that give us a few extra points in a close 7 game series?  

  The whole team (aside from maybe Perk) was up and down against Orlando. The Bulls series wore them down. Using only the Orlando series to rate him is no different from using ony the Bulls series to rate him. And his defense isn't bad. He gets beat off the dribble a few times a game, but what pg doesn't? Did you notice how often Rondo easily got past opposing pgs in the playoffs?

  Since you're so hot to replace Rondo with Rubio, answer me this: what's Rubio's fg% going to be next year? How many points a game will he score? How many assists and rebounds will he get? How much better will his defense be than Rondo's? Are you willing to bet our shot at another title in the next two years that he'll be as good as Rondo in that time frame?