Author Topic: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea  (Read 23535 times)

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Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2009, 08:16:27 PM »

Offline Greenback

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Even a remote possibility of trading Rondo is the most exciting thing I have heard in many months!!!

The championship window closes next year if there is not a major overhaul.

So, go BIG.  Bring on Amare.

Draft Ellington at no. 14.

Sign Marbury.

Then sit back and Celebrate # 18 next June.
Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2009, 08:35:01 PM »

Online JBcat

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Here is why I don't like this trade.   Amare and KG play the same position.  KG can play a little center but we want him there as little as possible.  Amare should not be playing center and I'm not crazy about his defense.   So I see a little bit a rotation problem with the bigs.  To boot we are not looking to move KG at least for another 2 years possibly when he is an expiring contract. 

I would say Rondo is a top 5 or at least a top 10 PG now after his near triple double averages in the playoffs.  Whoever replaces him whether it's a declining Iverson, Barbosa, a rookie PG like Rubio or whoever else in the FA market will be a big dropoff.   Even if Rubio is all that he would need time to develop and we don't have time to wait on him. 

If we do a Ray Rondo combo like trade with fillers possibly and draft picks we better be getting an elite guard back like Wade which would be my dream.  Then we wouldn't need an elite PG to complement him in the lineup only an adequate one. 

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2009, 09:16:09 PM »

Offline Gomesfan

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Could we do this trade?
We would aquire..
Wade
Haslem
Chalmers
Beasley

Miami would receive...
R Allen
Rondo
TA
Scal
Maybe we would have to ad more I think it is pretty fair. They stilll get to shed cap and they could lock down Rondo.
We get some Bigs and Wade, Beasley is awesome so we would probably have to give up more. We could also pick up a PG via FA or someone like JO or both if that check book is really open for #18.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
L.A. Clippers
Derrick Rose Blake Griffin 4.11 5.3 5.15 6.11 7.15 8.11 9.15 10.11 11.15 12.11 13.15

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2009, 09:39:40 PM »

Offline Celtic#9

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I just don't think this trade will make us better.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2009, 09:50:14 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I was just contemplating the Amare/Barbosa/14th pick for Ray and Rondo trade idea/rumor.

personally, i would rather give GPA another run this year adding a guy like Sheed to the mix, but just having a little fun with trade ideas.



I spent a lot of time thinking about the GPA mix & Wyc's comments last evening before going to bed and this is what I have come up with:

Ainge and crew saw what last year's team was on track to do and I think they all realized that they made some mistakes with relation to the bench.  The value of the expiring contracts in this day in age and over the next 3 years the Celts have 3 very large ones that are expiring. 

It's my opinion that the Celts management will be willing to over pay (luxury tax) for a more talented bench to support KGA this year and then evaluate the letting go of Ray, Paul & KG has their contracts come up and young and up and coming free agents become available (For example, Ray's contract expires, Celts use the slot to get Joe Johnson or Michael Redd). 

So I am on record saying the Celts keep KPA together this year with an eye on 2010.

I agree with your prognosis. I don't think this trade happens.

Doesn't mean I'm not open to Rondo's future, especially if he wants in excess of $10 large a year right now. I just don't see Ainge doing anything with him.
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Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2009, 10:14:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Let's say the trade happens and it's Amare and Barbosa and Dudley and the 14th pick for Rajon and Ray and Tony Allen.

Then let's say the Celtics then go out and sign Andre Miller for the MLE and Grant Hill for the LLE and draft Wayne Ellington at 14.

Would our current roster plus say McDyess and Hill added be better than the one we transformed the team into:

Rondo/House/Pruitt
Ray/Tony/JR
Pierce/Hill/Walker
KG/McDyess/Leon/Scal
Perk/vet min

VS

Miller/House/Pruitt
Barbosa/Ellington/JR
Pierce/Hill/Dudley/Walker
KG/Amare/Scal
Perk/vet min

Big man rotation equals:

Perk and KG start
KG comes out 6:00 of first quarter
Amare enters
Perk comes out 11:00 of first quarter
Scal enters
Scal comes out 4:00 of second quarter
KG enters
Amare comes out 3:30 of second quarter
Perk enters

Duplicate in the second half. Make adjustments where needed for foul situations. If this plays out KG gets 28 MPG, Amare gets 29 MPG, Perk gets 29 MPG, Scal or the vet min big man gets 10 MPG or those 10 minutes are divided amongst Perk, KG, and Amare.

Almost 30 MPG average for each big for the season would keep all fresh and probably playing at All-Star caliber. Hill and Dudley give Pierce plenty of rest and allows him to get minutes at the 2 if House, JR, Ellington can't come through as a decent back up for Barbosa.

I don't know, might work. And if Amare doesn't ETO after next year, he and Pierce are still expiring at the same time and sets up the C's to sign at least one max contract FA in each of two consecutive season. Yao one year and Kevin Durant the next.

I know, I'm dreaming. But, the Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Ray rumor is a decent starting place for a trade that could play huge dividends for the Celtics.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2009, 10:20:32 PM »

Offline pengaloo

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I think we should be focusing on improving our bench rather than messing up a starting five that has been proven to work. But this Rondo-Ray trade may be more about KG than anything else. If Ainge is indeed serious about this deal, KG's injury may be more serious than they're letting on. How else could they make a KG-Perk-Amare front court work unless one of them is out of the picture?

I also find it hard to give any consideration to draft picks in this trade. There's no guarantee that a lottery PG pick won't turn out to be a complete bust or completely mediocre (think Sebastian Telfair, who was a 13th pick).

Regardless, I don't think we should put Rondo on the trading block before we can see what he's fully capable of. He's young, healthy, tough, unselfish.
 
Ray and Rondo are also fan favorites... unless there are some real dividends that come from trading them, there might be some significant backlash.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2009, 10:28:15 PM »

Offline winsomme

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Let's say the trade happens and it's Amare and Barbosa and Dudley and the 14th pick for Rajon and Ray and Tony Allen.

Then let's say the Celtics then go out and sign Andre Miller for the MLE and Grant Hill for the LLE and draft Wayne Ellington at 14.

Would our current roster plus say McDyess and Hill added be better than the one we transformed the team into:

Rondo/House/Pruitt
Ray/Tony/JR
Pierce/Hill/Walker
KG/McDyess/Leon/Scal
Perk/vet min

VS

Miller/House/Pruitt
Barbosa/Ellington/JR
Pierce/Hill/Dudley/Walker
KG/Amare/Scal
Perk/vet min

Big man rotation equals:

Perk and KG start
KG comes out 6:00 of first quarter
Amare enters
Perk comes out 11:00 of first quarter
Scal enters
Scal comes out 4:00 of second quarter
KG enters
Amare comes out 3:30 of second quarter
Perk enters

Duplicate in the second half. Make adjustments where needed for foul situations. If this plays out KG gets 28 MPG, Amare gets 29 MPG, Perk gets 29 MPG, Scal or the vet min big man gets 10 MPG or those 10 minutes are divided amongst Perk, KG, and Amare.

Almost 30 MPG average for each big for the season would keep all fresh and probably playing at All-Star caliber. Hill and Dudley give Pierce plenty of rest and allows him to get minutes at the 2 if House, JR, Ellington can't come through as a decent back up for Barbosa.

I don't know, might work. And if Amare doesn't ETO after next year, he and Pierce are still expiring at the same time and sets up the C's to sign at least one max contract FA in each of two consecutive season. Yao one year and Kevin Durant the next.

I know, I'm dreaming. But, the Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Ray rumor is a decent starting place for a trade that could play huge dividends for the Celtics.


I don't like trading Rondo without bringing back a top caliber PG.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2009, 10:33:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Let's say the trade happens and it's Amare and Barbosa and Dudley and the 14th pick for Rajon and Ray and Tony Allen.

Then let's say the Celtics then go out and sign Andre Miller for the MLE and Grant Hill for the LLE and draft Wayne Ellington at 14.

Would our current roster plus say McDyess and Hill added be better than the one we transformed the team into:

Rondo/House/Pruitt
Ray/Tony/JR
Pierce/Hill/Walker
KG/McDyess/Leon/Scal
Perk/vet min

VS

Miller/House/Pruitt
Barbosa/Ellington/JR
Pierce/Hill/Dudley/Walker
KG/Amare/Scal
Perk/vet min

Big man rotation equals:

Perk and KG start
KG comes out 6:00 of first quarter
Amare enters
Perk comes out 11:00 of first quarter
Scal enters
Scal comes out 4:00 of second quarter
KG enters
Amare comes out 3:30 of second quarter
Perk enters

Duplicate in the second half. Make adjustments where needed for foul situations. If this plays out KG gets 28 MPG, Amare gets 29 MPG, Perk gets 29 MPG, Scal or the vet min big man gets 10 MPG or those 10 minutes are divided amongst Perk, KG, and Amare.

Almost 30 MPG average for each big for the season would keep all fresh and probably playing at All-Star caliber. Hill and Dudley give Pierce plenty of rest and allows him to get minutes at the 2 if House, JR, Ellington can't come through as a decent back up for Barbosa.

I don't know, might work. And if Amare doesn't ETO after next year, he and Pierce are still expiring at the same time and sets up the C's to sign at least one max contract FA in each of two consecutive season. Yao one year and Kevin Durant the next.

I know, I'm dreaming. But, the Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Ray rumor is a decent starting place for a trade that could play huge dividends for the Celtics.


I don't like trading Rondo without bringing back a top caliber PG.
But what if they have already had some off the book, behind the scenes discussion with someone like Andre Miller? He's 33 but has only 9 seasons in the league and a two year deal at the MLE gives the C's a more than capable PG for the two year window they would be looking to go back to back and then basically start over after Miller, Amare, and Piercde expire with KG expiring the year after. I mean, Tony Parker might be available during those years as I doubt he has any need to stay in SA after Duncan retires.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2009, 10:33:35 PM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

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where did this rumor start anyways? not that i believe it for one second. yuck to barbosa too. hate his game. he's always out of control.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2009, 10:36:31 PM »

Online JBcat

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Just curious could BBD be worked into a sign and trade as part of this deal?  The Suns would desperately need some big guys if they did this trade so maybe it could be worked in and we keep one of our guards.  

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2009, 10:36:34 PM »

Offline winsomme

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Let's say the trade happens and it's Amare and Barbosa and Dudley and the 14th pick for Rajon and Ray and Tony Allen.

Then let's say the Celtics then go out and sign Andre Miller for the MLE and Grant Hill for the LLE and draft Wayne Ellington at 14.

Would our current roster plus say McDyess and Hill added be better than the one we transformed the team into:

Rondo/House/Pruitt
Ray/Tony/JR
Pierce/Hill/Walker
KG/McDyess/Leon/Scal
Perk/vet min

VS

Miller/House/Pruitt
Barbosa/Ellington/JR
Pierce/Hill/Dudley/Walker
KG/Amare/Scal
Perk/vet min

Big man rotation equals:

Perk and KG start
KG comes out 6:00 of first quarter
Amare enters
Perk comes out 11:00 of first quarter
Scal enters
Scal comes out 4:00 of second quarter
KG enters
Amare comes out 3:30 of second quarter
Perk enters

Duplicate in the second half. Make adjustments where needed for foul situations. If this plays out KG gets 28 MPG, Amare gets 29 MPG, Perk gets 29 MPG, Scal or the vet min big man gets 10 MPG or those 10 minutes are divided amongst Perk, KG, and Amare.

Almost 30 MPG average for each big for the season would keep all fresh and probably playing at All-Star caliber. Hill and Dudley give Pierce plenty of rest and allows him to get minutes at the 2 if House, JR, Ellington can't come through as a decent back up for Barbosa.

I don't know, might work. And if Amare doesn't ETO after next year, he and Pierce are still expiring at the same time and sets up the C's to sign at least one max contract FA in each of two consecutive season. Yao one year and Kevin Durant the next.

I know, I'm dreaming. But, the Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Ray rumor is a decent starting place for a trade that could play huge dividends for the Celtics.


I don't like trading Rondo without bringing back a top caliber PG.
But what if they have already had some off the book, behind the scenes discussion with someone like Andre Miller? He's 33 but has only 9 seasons in the league and a two year deal at the MLE gives the C's a more than capable PG for the two year window they would be looking to go back to back and then basically start over after Miller, Amare, and Piercde expire with KG expiring the year after. I mean, Tony Parker might be available during those years as I doubt he has any need to stay in SA after Duncan retires.

yeah, i saw you mention Miller in the other post. certainly very credible at the PG position.

but he just runs such a strangely paced game for me. I think KG would be super frustrated by Miller at the wheel. especially after really starting to like the aggressiveness of Rondo.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2009, 10:48:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Let's say the trade happens and it's Amare and Barbosa and Dudley and the 14th pick for Rajon and Ray and Tony Allen.

Then let's say the Celtics then go out and sign Andre Miller for the MLE and Grant Hill for the LLE and draft Wayne Ellington at 14.

Would our current roster plus say McDyess and Hill added be better than the one we transformed the team into:

Rondo/House/Pruitt
Ray/Tony/JR
Pierce/Hill/Walker
KG/McDyess/Leon/Scal
Perk/vet min

VS

Miller/House/Pruitt
Barbosa/Ellington/JR
Pierce/Hill/Dudley/Walker
KG/Amare/Scal
Perk/vet min

Big man rotation equals:

Perk and KG start
KG comes out 6:00 of first quarter
Amare enters
Perk comes out 11:00 of first quarter
Scal enters
Scal comes out 4:00 of second quarter
KG enters
Amare comes out 3:30 of second quarter
Perk enters

Duplicate in the second half. Make adjustments where needed for foul situations. If this plays out KG gets 28 MPG, Amare gets 29 MPG, Perk gets 29 MPG, Scal or the vet min big man gets 10 MPG or those 10 minutes are divided amongst Perk, KG, and Amare.

Almost 30 MPG average for each big for the season would keep all fresh and probably playing at All-Star caliber. Hill and Dudley give Pierce plenty of rest and allows him to get minutes at the 2 if House, JR, Ellington can't come through as a decent back up for Barbosa.

I don't know, might work. And if Amare doesn't ETO after next year, he and Pierce are still expiring at the same time and sets up the C's to sign at least one max contract FA in each of two consecutive season. Yao one year and Kevin Durant the next.

I know, I'm dreaming. But, the Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Ray rumor is a decent starting place for a trade that could play huge dividends for the Celtics.


I don't like trading Rondo without bringing back a top caliber PG.
But what if they have already had some off the book, behind the scenes discussion with someone like Andre Miller? He's 33 but has only 9 seasons in the league and a two year deal at the MLE gives the C's a more than capable PG for the two year window they would be looking to go back to back and then basically start over after Miller, Amare, and Piercde expire with KG expiring the year after. I mean, Tony Parker might be available during those years as I doubt he has any need to stay in SA after Duncan retires.

yeah, i saw you mention Miller in the other post. certainly very credible at the PG position.

but he just runs such a strangely paced game for me. I think KG would be super frustrated by Miller at the wheel. especially after really starting to like the aggressiveness of Rondo.
The KG-Rondo chemistry, that really took off this year, might be something to think about. Their quick eye contact, alley-oop passing seemed to be averaging about 2-4 PPG when KG went down.

That type of thing is so important and must be considered before any trade of the starting five. This will be their third year together and the chemistry should be at it's peak with the fast break outlet passes, alley oops to KG, position for drive and dishes, the three man pick roll triangle on the side, interior big man passing and other such things that bringing in a new starter will disrupt.

While the trade is intriguing because I really think Amare and the way his contract is structured would be a great asset to have in exchange for Ray, I can't see giving up Rondo as I think his assist numbers could be in the double digit area next year.

I can easily see a 13 PPG, 10.5 APG, 6 RPG, 2.5 STPG 3 TOPG numbers for Rondo next year and maybe slightly better the year after. Also, I think his outside shot and finishing at the rim WILL get better. He has such a competitive spirit and need to improve that I doubt he doesn't come back every season with something else better, ala Larry Bird.

If we could pry Amare from Phoenix without Rondo, I do it in a heartbeat.

Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2009, 11:27:20 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I know this end of the discussion has more or less died out, but I just wanted to make a comment on the Iverson/Barbosa/Pierce/Garnett/Stoudemire lineup.  Are you trying to get KG thrown in a cell?  Iverson and Stoudemire are two of the top three names I think of when I hear the words "selfish" and "star" together (the other being Kobe).  Garnett is great when it comes to chemistry, but this would be like trying to contain a supernova - KG would butcher somebody. 


Re: The Ray-Rondo trade rumor (Amare) + new idea
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2009, 11:33:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I know this end of the discussion has more or less died out, but I just wanted to make a comment on the Iverson/Barbosa/Pierce/Garnett/Stoudemire lineup.  Are you trying to get KG thrown in a cell?  Iverson and Stoudemire are two of the top three names I think of when I hear the words "selfish" and "star" together (the other being Kobe).  Garnett is great when it comes to chemistry, but this would be like trying to contain a supernova - KG would butcher somebody. 


He did once play with Spreewell and Cassell in Minnesota, so it's not like he hasn't done it before.