How can the Celtics improve - we have no one to trade and no cap space?

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I think we should be realistic.  The Celtics core is aging and they have probably one year left where they will be a title contender.  I think it is worth rolling the dice to win another title next year, since you do not get the chance to do it every time, but Gunner is making a solid point about the structural issues facing the Celtics.  The Celtics do not have a ton of "upside" players, unless you think Walker and Giddens are really going to develop.  Rondo is developing into one of the top point guards in the league and Perkins will be a solid starting center.  Beyond that, it is not apparent how you come up with the money for post-Big 3 future core.  The Celtics could very easily get caught, 2-3 years from now, in the weak playoff team/low lottery team bind.

As I have argued in other places, I think the Celtics need to give Giddens and Walkers a serious look this year and see if they can be the athletic swing players the Celtics badly need.

but, if danny has a thought in his head, they could also have massive cap space to use to build around rondo and perk.

if you let ray expire/trade him/resign him for 2-3 years, and get paul to take a 2-3 year deal, you can easily line it up so that all three core guys come off the books in the same year, when all are about 36-38

Yes, you will probley have a down year in 2011-2012, but after that you come out way under cap (not that, you know, ive done this on draft day basketball or anything  )

you then let the big 3 ride off into the sunset and use your massive cap space to attack FA's ( i got melo and amare in the game, but thats only because amare was coming off a down year in the simulator) and i had the 8th pick in the draft because we were a .500 team the year before.

(note: i realize the above is based on a text based GM simulator  game, and unlikely to approach anything like reality. just showing its not really THAT hard to set this up, assuming your not sentimental about the last 2 years of all three guys careers.)

Those are good points, I think.  I'd love to see that happen.  TP for you.  I'm more pessimistic about Ainge's ability to get all of this done + to then choose wisely in the FA market, but that's a different story.

[droopdog7]

I think BBD is pretty much irrelevent.  If we can sign either Ra (Sheed) or McDyess, then I wouldn't pay BBD more than 9 mil over 3 years.  If he walks, he walks.  We resign Powe and hopefully have him ready for the stretch run.  We won't need anything else.

We also need sign a swing man.  G. Hill is number one on my list, followed by Barnes.  Just say no to Dahntey Jones.  He is athletic and a decent defender but he has no offensive game.  I think our swingman needs to at least be able to shoot.   Otherwise, Jones will look too much like TA. 

Can Hill still play some PG?  If he can, then we don't necessarily need to sign another PG.  Pairing Hill with House would look good.  If not, then I would reconsider Marburry and hope that he signs for cheap.

As far as TA, Scal, and the others, they truly don't have much (or any) trade value as players.  The only thing of value is their expirng contracts, which likely won't come into play until midseason anyway. 

[cordobes]

Primary Backup Point Guard -- Eddie House
Third Sting Point Guard -- Gabe Pruitt
Primary Backup Wing -- LLE (Hill, Parker or Bogans)
Secondary Backup Wing -- Minimum Contract (Ross, Udoka, Herrmann, Carney, Rush, Mason)
First Big Off The Bench -- MLE (Zaza or Dice)
Second Big Off The Bench -- Minimum Contract (Powell)
Fifth Big In The Rotation -- Brian Scalabrine
Sixth Big In the Rotation -- Leon Powe

Then two roster spots for prospects like Giddens and Walker.

The Celtics have a very good chance of building an excellent bench, not just good but excellent, by using -- the MLE, LLE, and some minimum contracts.

I like this. I'd only have different priorities for secondary wing backup and 4th big.

[nickagneta]

See I think we are nuts to just let Baby go. If he signs for more than what we want elsewhere I think Danny needs to play a game of Chicken with that team and try to force a sign and trade.  It's a great way to fill a hole elsewhere. Of course, the caveat there is that he has to be willing to match that offer.

[2short]

sign and trade davis when his value is at a high point
Tony put into a trade somehow
let marbury walk
resign powe
eddie....if it fits trade him, i like him, he's a good shooter but replaced fairly easy
keep walker i like his potential
giddens eh...
pruitt is cheap and knows the system keep him
scal gotta keep, he's hilarious

grant hill should be our #1 pick, guy has a great game, injuries will keep him from hof, he can extend his career by coming here, give us time at sf and even sg

moore is cheap and ok for the end of bench but not that good so i don't care 1 way or the other

[Marqui]

I think BBD is pretty much irrelevent.  If we can sign either Ra (Sheed) or McDyess, then I wouldn't pay BBD more than 9 mil over 3 years.  If he walks, he walks.  We resign Powe and hopefully have him ready for the stretch run.  We won't need anything else.

We also need sign a swing man.  G. Hill is number one on my list, followed by Barnes.  Just say no to Dahntey Jones.  He is athletic and a decent defender but he has no offensive game.  I think our swingman needs to at least be able to shoot.   Otherwise, Jones will look too much like TA. 

Can Hill still play some PG?  If he can, then we don't necessarily need to sign another PG.  Pairing Hill with House would look good.  If not, then I would reconsider Marburry and hope that he signs for cheap.

As far as TA, Scal, and the others, they truly don't have much (or any) trade value as players.  The only thing of value is their expirng contracts, which likely won't come into play until midseason anyway. 

pretty much sums it up

[Gunner]

wasn't it rasheed who said, if he wasn't paid enough he would retire?

doesn't sound like a guy who would be happy with a low salary.

[crownsy]

wasn't it rasheed who said, if he wasn't paid enough he would retire?

doesn't sound like a guy who would be happy with a low salary.

i think the theory is that he would take a discount (I. E the full MLE) to play with Kevin, who he's best friends with as sort of a "last ride" before retirement.

Not sure i buy that theory, but thats how i understand it.

[Jon]

I don't know about you guys, but I really feel that a healthy squad and just a couple decent bench players yields championship #18 next season.  I think this year the playoffs have/are proving a lot of things:

1) The Rondo, Ray, Pierce, and Perk are very good.  Without KG this team goes to 7 games in the semis against a team who almost swept Cleveland and is on the verge of beating them altogether.  Add a healthy KG, a rested Ray and Paul, and a couple bench players, there's no reason to think they can't easily win it all next year. 

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us. 

I don't think we need to epically improve next year.  A solid legit big man, a solid backup wing, and our health and I think #18 happens.  The backup PG spot isn't even the big deal it used to be, since Rondo is now fully capable (and young enough) to play 35-40 mpg.  While I've been an Eddie basher at the point, I think we can now deal with him there for less than 10 mpg come playoff time. 

Also, while I think a healthy team could challenge the Bulls' record for most regular season wins, we certainly don't have to make that push.  If the C's just add a big and a swingman and the bench is a little weak, there's nothing to say that we can't simply limit the Big Three's minutes and just deal with losing a couple more games with the likes of Giddens and Walker getting some minutes.  Even if they lose a couple extra games, I can't see them losing anymore than 20 games next season. 

Overall, I don't think there's a ton of a reason to panic.  Just add a couple players and keep our stars healthy. 

[cordobes]

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us.  

Too many people are making this deeply flawed reasoning.

Plus, let's not forget that both Orlando and Cleveland will improve their teams as well (Nelson coming back will be big for Orlando).

[Jon]

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us.  

Too many people are making this deeply flawed reasoning.

Plus, let's not forget that both Orlando and Cleveland will improve their teams as well (Nelson coming back will be big for Orlando).

I kind of see your point.  Part of Orlanod's success is matchups.  However, let's make no mistake about this: matchups or no matchups, if Cleveland is truly the better team, they shouldn't be down 3-1 (and nearly swept) right now. 

The Hawks were a tough matchup with their size and athleticism last year for the Celtics.  And while they struggled to take them in 7 games, they never looked this bad. 

A healthy C's team takes a healthy Orlando team in 6 games at worst.  Now a Nelson-less Magic are up 3-1 on the Cavs. 

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest the C's are significantly better than the Cavs. 

[Chris]

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us.  

Too many people are making this deeply flawed reasoning.

Plus, let's not forget that both Orlando and Cleveland will improve their teams as well (Nelson coming back will be big for Orlando).

Yeah, I hate this reasoning.  What we are seeing right now is mostly about matchups...but the Magic are also a much different team than they were in the first 5-6 games against the C's.  Something snapped after that 6th game, kind of like it did last year for the C's against Detroit, where they went from a team playing scared to an elite team that was hitting clutch shots left and right, executing down the stretch, and playing with an edge they were missing for the first half of the playoffs.

[nickagneta]

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us.  

Too many people are making this deeply flawed reasoning.

Plus, let's not forget that both Orlando and Cleveland will improve their teams as well (Nelson coming back will be big for Orlando).

Yeah, I hate this reasoning.  What we are seeing right now is mostly about matchups...but the Magic are also a much different team than they were in the first 5-6 games against the C's.  Something snapped after that 6th game, kind of like it did last year for the C's against Detroit, where they went from a team playing scared to an elite team that was hitting clutch shots left and right, executing down the stretch, and playing with an edge they were missing for the first half of the playoffs.

TP4U Chris. Excellent analogy.

I find it funny that of the top three teams in the East that the team that actually made itself better mid season(Orlando with the Alston trade) is the team that looks to be most dominant and is the most successful. Ferry didn't pull the trigger on a Wally deal and Danny really couldn't trade anyone only add others castoffs.

[Actionjakson]

Use MLE on Trevor Ariza. I no that big man and point guard are our two biggest needs, but a strong wing is a necessity too if we want a chance. Ray and  Paul are getting old, and will need more rest next year.

Sign Big Baby at all costs for 3.5-5 mil. I would love to keep him, but if necessary trade him to a lottery team like New Jersey for their lottery pick and a over paid vet bigman (i.e. Eduardo Najara). I absolutely love Big Baby, but if he is asking for too much money, or wants out badly we would have to sign and trade. We could get a decent big man and a good young prospect (at NJ's pick we could get Ty Lawson, Johnny Flynn, Earl Clark, or James Johnson). I dont really know how much trade value Davis has, but seeing as how he played in the play offs, he could develop into a star for a developing team like New Jersey. Maybe we would have to throw in a future pick, or some cash, idk, but it could work out. Here, I would pick Lawson or Flynn

Sign Etan Thomas, Sheldon Williams, Rasho Nesterovic, or Birdman for the LLE. Birdman preferably.

Trade TA and Scal and either Giddens/Cash/future pick to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa.

Sign Powe to a non-guaranteed contract

Sign Eddie to a low contract

Sign McDyess to a Vet min

Our Line-Up would be:

Rondo/Barbosa/Flynn
Ray/House
Pierce/Ariza/Najara
KG/McDyess
Perk/Birdman

Walker and powe and an undrafteed rookie on IR.

Thats a solid line-up to me. I believe that it is pretty realistic too. I know that barbosa might be a stretch, but its still possible. hello #18

[Jon]

2) Cleveland and Orlando both look very vulnerable.  If Orlando needs 7 games to take a severely weakened C's squad, there's no way they can beat them with KG, a rested Big Two, and a bench.  Similarly, if Cleveland is getting their butts handed to them by a team we could man-handle when healthy, Cleveland isn't really a match for us.  

Too many people are making this deeply flawed reasoning.

Plus, let's not forget that both Orlando and Cleveland will improve their teams as well (Nelson coming back will be big for Orlando).

Yeah, I hate this reasoning.  What we are seeing right now is mostly about matchups...but the Magic are also a much different team than they were in the first 5-6 games against the C's.  Something snapped after that 6th game, kind of like it did last year for the C's against Detroit, where they went from a team playing scared to an elite team that was hitting clutch shots left and right, executing down the stretch, and playing with an edge they were missing for the first half of the playoffs.

TP4U Chris. Excellent analogy.

I find it funny that of the top three teams in the East that the team that actually made itself better mid season(Orlando with the Alston trade) is the team that looks to be most dominant and is the most successful. Ferry didn't pull the trigger on a Wally deal and Danny really couldn't trade anyone only add others castoffs.

I still disagree.  If Cleveland comes back to win this series, we can talk about matchups (or even if they lose in 7).  But if Orlando takes it tomorrow, matchups aren't an excuse for losing to clearly the third best team in the East in 5 games.