Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?

[Who]

Doesn't it really depend on what he'll take for an extension to?

Yes, I absolutely agree. The type of extension Ray is looking for and is likely to sign completely alters the type of talent you'd need to take back in a trade to make the trade worthwhile.

[hpantazo]

the best decision is to let the big three play out one more year with a healthy lineup, an improved Glen Davis,Rondo, and Perk, and a couple of better bench guys. If they win it all and look healthy, then resign Ray, if not, you save big $$ and are a player in the FA market. Why trade him now or during the next season?

[crownsy]

the best decision is to let the big three play out one more year with a healthy lineup, an improved Glen Davis,Rondo, and Perk, and a couple of better bench guys. If they win it all and look healthy, then resign Ray, if not, you save big $$ and are a player in the FA market. Why trade him now or during the next season?

your still not a player in the FA market, were well over cap even with ray off the books, but i agree with the rest of your idea.

[Brendan]

As long as you have a couple of Max guys (Pierce and KG) you are not a player in the FA market. But we would be a player in the sign and trade market for Ray Allen.

BTW - for Dallas if they were moving Howard, they do the deal because the still have a smallish window. Ray Allen, plus Kidd, plus Dirk, plus Terry, etc. still keeps fans in their seats, is cost neutral next year, and clears out the cap for the year after.

[Who]

And in that case, wouldn't it make more sense for the team looking to do this to trade the 10-12 mill long term deal (which, by the way, is probably going to be around what Ray Allen gets for an extension) to simply trade that 10-12 mill contract for an expiring 10-12 million dollar contract, as opposed to including an expiring deal themselves in the mix?

And then, wouldn't any of the myriad of teams with 10-12 million dollars expiring contracts also be able to offer theirs if the player being mentioned is a talent anywhere the level of a Ray Allen?

That would be shooting ourselves in the foot, trading an 18 million dollar expiring contract for what a 10-12 million dollar expiring contract would get.

It depends solely on what the goal is.

Going back to Dallas -- they want to win a title. They're not rebuilding. They're not trying to save dollars ... they're trying to win.

If they believe Ray is the better player, at least for next season, then the trade has some value for them.

The trade has a secondary value for Dallas because the medium term future of their team, and Dirk's future, rests on 2010. Depending on where the cap falls that summer, they may to part with Josh Howard anyway in order to free up enough money to make a maximum contract offer. So Josh's possible better third to fifth seasons may not be of any value to them, but Ray's immediate quality is of high value to them.


Then there's other situations -- now I'm not a fan of this trade but it's a useful example -- A Golden State Warriors trade where they part with Jackson or Maggette as the contract. Perhaps that team can't get a 2010 expiring contract for those players because their contracts last 4-5 seasons instead of 2-3 seasons, and instead have to sweeten the offer by including a makeweight of some kind (in a Ray trade, that'll be the other expiring deal).

[bcgenuis]

Ray to Chicago for Hinrich and Gordon.
Rondo + Scal +TAllen to Atlanta for Joe Johnson+Pachulia.

Hinrich/Marbury/House
Johnson/Gordon/Giddens
Pierce/Johnson/Walker
KG/BBD/Powe
Perk/Pachulia

[Fan from VT]

Doesn't it really depend on what he'll take for an extension to? I mean let's say DA looks at RA and figures he has 2/3 borderline All Star years and another 2/3 really good shooter role player years, for a total of 4-6 years left where he's a real contributor to the team and their quest for a championship. (Now if DA thinks Ray has one year left, maybe two the rest is moot, but why not let him play out the last year and leave - that's usually the cheepest way.)

So DA says 4 years left, I own next year at 20. "Ray will sign a 3 year extension at 8 per?" If Ray says yes, should they do it? (I don't know if that's allowed under current cap rules or not.) And if there is going to be a lock out next year and ownership expects to have either a no-cap year or a year with very owner friendly provisions, wouldn't that be a big deal to?

the scary thing is that ray's skills are declining, but we are still way over the cap, so if we re-sign ray as a role player, we have no way to add an impact player once ray declines to role player status.

[dlpin]

And in that case, wouldn't it make more sense for the team looking to do this to trade the 10-12 mill long term deal (which, by the way, is probably going to be around what Ray Allen gets for an extension) to simply trade that 10-12 mill contract for an expiring 10-12 million dollar contract, as opposed to including an expiring deal themselves in the mix?

And then, wouldn't any of the myriad of teams with 10-12 million dollars expiring contracts also be able to offer theirs if the player being mentioned is a talent anywhere the level of a Ray Allen?

That would be shooting ourselves in the foot, trading an 18 million dollar expiring contract for what a 10-12 million dollar expiring contract would get.

It depends solely on what the goal is.

Going back to Dallas -- they want to win a title. They're not rebuilding. They're not trying to save dollars ... they're trying to win.

If they believe Ray is the better player, at least for next season, then the trade has some value for them.

The trade has a secondary value for Dallas because the medium term future of their team, and Dirk's future, rests on 2010. Depending on where the cap falls that summer, they may to part with Josh Howard anyway in order to free up enough money to make a maximum contract offer. So Josh's possible better third to fifth seasons may not be of any value to them, but Ray's immediate quality is of high value to them.


Then there's other situations -- now I'm not a fan of this trade but it's a useful example -- A Golden State Warriors trade where they part with Jackson or Maggette as the contract. Perhaps that team can't get a 2010 expiring contract for those players because their contracts last 4-5 seasons instead of 2-3 seasons, and instead have to sweeten the offer by including a makeweight of some kind (in a Ray trade, that'll be the other expiring deal).

The fact that they have a closing window doesnt mean Dallas would trade for Ray Allen, which in talent terms would only be a minor upgrade.

Jackson or Maggete separately would not be a talent upgrade for us, and jointly would ruin our financial flexibility.

So, again, unless Ray Allen is demanding 15 mill or more a season (which I doubt he would be getting from anyone in 2010 at age 34), I doubt we trade him, and if we do there are no trades out there that net us equivalent talent.

[Who]

the scary thing is that ray's skills are declining, but we are still way over the cap, so if we re-sign ray as a role player, we have no way to add an impact player once ray declines to role player status.

That is a major concern for me too

[D Dub]

This sucks. 

[hpantazo]

Doesn't it really depend on what he'll take for an extension to? I mean let's say DA looks at RA and figures he has 2/3 borderline All Star years and another 2/3 really good shooter role player years, for a total of 4-6 years left where he's a real contributor to the team and their quest for a championship. (Now if DA thinks Ray has one year left, maybe two the rest is moot, but why not let him play out the last year and leave - that's usually the cheepest way.)

So DA says 4 years left, I own next year at 20. "Ray will sign a 3 year extension at 8 per?" If Ray says yes, should they do it? (I don't know if that's allowed under current cap rules or not.) And if there is going to be a lock out next year and ownership expects to have either a no-cap year or a year with very owner friendly provisions, wouldn't that be a big deal to?

the scary thing is that ray's skills are declining, but we are still way over the cap, so if we re-sign ray as a role player, we have no way to add an impact player once ray declines to role player status.

I haven't seen any decline from Ray, this season he actually improved significantly, which is why I want to keep him. If he gets some space on the floor with KG back and an improved Rondo, man, look out! If anyone looked like they declined, it was Pierce, and I love Pierce.

[Scalablob990]

At this point i'd just trade KG back to sota for Al Jefferson. Their is only positives from that.

[hpantazo]

At this point i'd just trade KG back to sota for Al Jefferson. Their is only positives from that.

big Al has no D, no thanks

[crownsy]

At this point i'd just trade KG back to sota for Al Jefferson. Their is only positives from that.

except al doesn't play defense, nearly at all. Its the one thing people point to as to why he's not a true superstar, he won't or can't play low post D.

[MBz]

I don't really think Ray Allen has declined this year.  I personally think he can have a Reggie Miller career and be a starter for quite some time.  Maybe he doesn't throw down the dunk like he used to, but he does everything else pretty [dang] well.  You never see him stop moving during a game, the guy is always trying to break free.  I personally think he stays in Boston, I really hope he does at least.