Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?

[crownsy]

Ray Allen will retire as a Celtic, as will Kevin Garnett & Paul Pierce.

Together they brought us #17 and together, they may bring us another one.

We owe it too them, to retire as Celtics, if they so wish.

We do?  What if they all want 4-5 year deals @ max money when their contracts expire?  Would we owe that to them, too?  I think Pierce finishes his career in Boston, since he's an all time celtic, but I can't be sure about the other two.

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[ssspence]

You are wrong because you assume that Danny wouldn't want players signed to long term contracts. He may have n problem with that with the right players. Yes we get back that $18 million back you keep mentioning(I think Ray's number alone is $19.7 million) but if $10 million of it is tied up for 4 years with a player the Celtics would want that long at that price and another $8 million is tied up for 2 extra years for a player Danny feels is worth the price, then what does it matter?

In my example Ray would go to GSW for Maggette and Jackson. Danny might feel that Maggette and Jackson signed for what they are signed at for the length of time they are signed at is just fine.

You are wrong because it doesn't matter what we are paying Pierce and KG or any other player because we have Rondo's Bird rights and can re-sign him to whatever we want. How exactly does anyone else's contract have any bearing on retaining Rondo when we own his Bird rights and can offer him more money than anyone else.

You are wrong because even though Ray won't get a max deal, he isn't about to start earning vet minimum contracts either. Ray could still demand and get on the open market a three year deal in the $27-$33 million range. While that is a savings, it is not a savings that helps the Celtics because it doesn't get them under the salary cap so the Celtics would still be extremely limited in what they can offer future free agents. Heck, Ray could take a vet min contract and he still won't help the Celtics in getting under the cap to sign major free agents.

Since major free agency to better the team is out of the question, then the only other two options is to ride the Big Three into the dust while surrounding them with mediocre talent and hoping they stay healthy and can squeeze another championship out or by trading them for lateral talent movement and longer years on contracts and rebuilding through trades.

Danny has already mentioned that he felt the original Big Three were held onto for too long and that the proper move was to trade them away earlier and rebuild that way.

i'm fine with the premise -- but you have to come up with something more compelling that jackson and maggette.

leaving aside that we'd be worse off with maggette the player, he represents the type of deal that I don't see danny and wyc taking on. too long, too much money, too much losing in his selfish game.

jackson is interesting if not for the ridiculous, unneccesary  contract extension he signed last year.

you'll win this arguement with more conviction if you can come up with a plan that allows the Cs to have a chance at winning with KG, Paul and Rondo AND doesn't strap the Cs with poor deals and limited talent as the dudes grow old. With these players on these deals we're back to the days of Larry and McHale -- too many guys growing old together with not enough athleticism to stay competitive. turiaf and randolph (who's a punk - pure and simple) don't accomplish that.

[cordobes]

I doubt it. It's very, extremely I'd say, unlikely that we can get more value for Allen than what he brings to the team. I don't see financial restraints having any kind of impact, because Ray Allen is an expiring contract. To save $2M or something like that? Not happening, if we really need to save that, we're doing it in the free-agents signings. I'm not opposed to move Ray Allen (or anyone else), I just don't see an offer worth to think about being made.

And of course there are budgetary restrictions: I agree with the corpus of Nick's reasoning, I've made a similar one in a thread about Glen Davis. Ainge probably will only have $5-$6 millions to spend and an entire bench to build.

[CDawg834]

Ray Allen will retire as a Celtic, as will Kevin Garnett & Paul Pierce.

Together they brought us #17 and together, they may bring us another one.

We owe it too them, to retire as Celtics, if they so wish.

We do?  What if they all want 4-5 year deals @ max money when their contracts expire?  Would we owe that to them, too?  I think Pierce finishes his career in Boston, since he's an all time celtic, but I can't be sure about the other two.

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haha well that too!

[JSD]

Oh, I disagree totally about last summer. There's plenty of evidence of a "Wyc cap." In fact, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. They pinched pennies at the three and killed Pierce. Every decision was the cheapest option possible, except Tony Allen and the grotesque mistake that was is very obvious. Some may call that "searching for value." If so, they found nothing. I call it cheap.

Now, as for this summer, there's no evidence. Yet.

But we'll be watching, won't we? I totally understand the pessimism. Wyc has to prove he's willing to spend, not that he isn't.

How did they "pinch pennies at the 3"? They offered C.Maggette the entire MLE and were rejected. You wanted them to overpay for Posey and they didn't so they're cheap right? Well I disagree, unwillingness to overpay does not equate to a "Wyc Cap".

We totally disagree, and you need look no further than at Pierce's playoff performance to see the real toll of "refusing to overpay," as you put it. I call it cheap, and I'd flatly tell you that the price Posey signed for with the Hornets is not "overpaying" for versatility: It's prudent management, because it prevents you from losing two players - Posey and ultimately, Pierce.

The decision on Posey was one major mistake; one that was compounded by ownership and management's steadfast refusal to attempt to fill the void he left with anyone besides Tony Allen, whose resigning was, frankly, a waste of $2.5 million. Paying Tony Allen at all is "overpaying." Pierce was out of gas in the second round and he didn't need to be.

By all accounts Posey is a regretted contract and a good non-signing. Also, by saying "management's steadfast refusal to attempt to fill the void" your negating the fact that they offered Maggette the MLE and displayed a willingness to spend for a solid ROI. TA was the only option left after the failed Posey negotiations. Non of this stuff adds up to a Wyc cap.

[Roy Hobbs]

I hope not.  There are very few players in the NBA who are as good as Ray Allen.

[EJPLAYA]

He will be here next year. Let's not forget the guy was our best player through the majority of the season. If I am losing a superstar next year it has to be PP, not Ray. He is the one showing big signs of getting old in a hurry. He is the one that refused to play defense, or was simply unable. He was guarding Turkoglu and Pietrus most of the time and those two players were the ones that beat us and cost us the series in all the games. He was the one that kept forcing plays offensively that weren't there. If I have to lose one of them, which won't happen, he's the one unfortunately.

[crownsy]

I wouldn't mind seeing RA gone, if we can get someone who can play defense and hit an outside shot, along with another bench player.

It takes two super stars to win a title - three helps, but I think we need someone who can keep up with Rondo.

I'm tired of seeing Rondo lead the fast break, only to pull up or take a bad shot because he has nobody to pass to. Nobody can keep up with him.

why on earth would ray try to lead the break with him? the idea is for the best 3pt shooter in history to trail the break.

generally KG and leon runs the break with him while ray fans out to a corner and the two slower players (paul and perk) hustle up behind, but thats not an option with KG and leon in  sport coats.

[ssspence]

I doubt it. It's very, extremely I'd say, unlikely that we can get more value for Allen than what he brings to the team. I don't see financial restraints having any kind of impact, because Ray Allen is an expiring contract. To save $2M or something like that? Not happening, if we really need to save that, we're doing it in the free-agents signings. I'm not opposed to move Ray Allen (or anyone else), I just don't see an offer worth to think about being made.

And of course there are budgetary restrictions: I agree with the corpus of Nick's reasoning, I've made a similar one in a thread about Glen Davis. Ainge probably will only have $5-$6 millions to spend and an entire bench to build.

to expand on this point, i just spent a little time on the Trade Machine. it's very difficult to come up with a deal that makes any sense for two teams. kamen, camby and thornton? no. maggette, jackson and others? no. michael redd? no. luol deng? no. some wacky combo of portland players? no. the suns? i don't see the amare thing happening. josh howard and jason terry? why would the mavs do it? the deal is just not there.

[JSD]

If where going to move Ray Allen it's for Tay and Rip or bust IMO.

[Casperian]

I think trading Ray would be a mistake.
The team that took the Magic to game 7 is basically the 2007 Celtics + Ray and Baby minus Big Al. I´m not sure what people expected, but I think this team overachieved. We´re talking about a guy who saved our butt with a 51 point performance just three weeks ago, and who struggled because he was the focus of the Magic`s attention on defense for the whole series. Put KG on this team, and we beat them in 5.

[RebusRankin]

If we did the trade Nick proposed we'd have a starting 5 of Rondo, Jackson, Pierce, KG and Perkins with a bench of House, Magette, Randolph, BBD and Turiaf. Does that make us better overall?

[RAcker]

As bad as Ray played in this series, the Chicago series proved that his value is much higher than anything we'd get in return.  What needs to happen is some creative bench building by Danny.  We have to have another guy that can create his own offense coming off the bench and preferably another great defender to come in with the second unit too.  Is this possible in one player? See Courtney Lee.

Anyway, I'm interested to see what happens with our FA group and what Danny has planned to give us the weapons we need to start a run at #18 next year.  I'm taking a wait and see approach.

[greenhead85]

Getting too sentimental on this "trade Ray Allen" won't be good for the Celtics organization/business but there is always a better way to offset a scenario when he gets traded.

Danny Ainge was traded after helping the Celts win in 1986 and was an original "Six Pack" member.

Who's going to argue if we trade Ray Allen + Tony Allen or Scal for TMac of Houston?

He would be a dream combo guard who can shoot, finish strong to the hoop, rebound and set plays (he's an excellent ball handler).

[Casperian]

Who's going to argue if we trade Ray Allen + Tony Allen or Scal for TMac of Houston?

He would be a dream combo guard who can shoot, finish strong to the hoop, rebound and set plays (he's an excellent ball handler).

Yep, and he`ll only play 20 games per season due to injury, throws his teammates under the bus and never made it out of the first round. I pass...