Author Topic: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?  (Read 27108 times)

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Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« on: May 18, 2009, 02:38:17 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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The longer this game went on, the more I not only felt that the Celtics were going to lose but also that it might be the end of the Big Three era. Losing as badly as they lost tonight got me thinking, retrospectively, as to how they got to be in a position where they would be knocked out in just the second round of the playoffs.

And, of course, there's a lot of reasons starting with injuries, poor player acquisitions since last June, too much youth and not enough size and age. What stuck out to me most though is that the Celtics definitely appeared to go cheap on us fans after delivering a championship. And the more I thought about it, the more I am convinced that Danny Ainge is being held to a budget with a cap of somewhere around $85 million to be spent on player's salaries and luxury tax payments.

Let me explain. According to ShamSports.com salary page the Celtics paid total player salaries this year of about $78.7 million dollars.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/celtics.jsp

Now, with the salary cap and luxury tax threshold being at $58.68 million and $71.15 million, respectively, and with the Celts having to pay a dollar for dollar penalty after $71.15 million, that means the Celtics total salary outlay for players was about $86.25 million for the 2008-09 season.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11713

The Celtics had some holes to fill last off season and decided that adding House at $2.65 million, Allen at $2.5 million and Walker, O'Bryant, Giddens, Moore and Marbury at minimum salaries was the best way to go?? Sorry, I don't buy it. I am now thoroughly convinced that Wyc and the boys are giving Danny Ainge a very tight budget and making him adhere to it and that's why we ended up with the bench we did.

So if that is true, I then have to believe that that maximum budget number has to be in the vicinity of about where they spent this year, $85-$86 million. If that number holds true for next year, and it might not, the number could very well go down given the state of the economy and the fact that the salary cap is lowering to $57.3 million and the luxury tax number to $70 million, then once again Danny is going to have his hands tied this summer.

Why? Because as of right now the Celtics have the following players under contract for next year: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Tony Allen, Brian Scalabrine, JR Giddens, Bill Walker, and Gabe Pruitt. That's a total of $70.9 million and means the Celtics are already over the cap. Also, Eddie House has a player option he can exercise to stay with the club and given the economy and the fact a lot of teams will want to keep payrolls low in anticipation of the 2010 free agent bonanza, that means Eddie would be wise to exercise the option and stay with Boston.

That then gives Danny Ainge 11 players on next years team with a payroll that is already slightly over $73.7 million and total outlay at $77.4 million due to the luxury tax. So, in order to fill the glaring holes at the backup PG, backup, center or big PF, and backup SF and stay within what I think is an $85-$86 million budget, that leaves very little for Danny to be able to do. He could resign Big baby at $3.5 million per for 4 years and add two veteran minimum contracts that would add about another $5.1 in salary and $10.2 million in total cash outlay and be already over budget but possibly within means.

But how much better will that makes this team? And who are the two veteran minimum players going to be that might actually make a difference? Sure I guess if they could get lucky and talk Grant Hill and Stephan Marbury to sign at the minimum and Baby for $3 million a year for 4 years, things might not be that bad, but I think we would once again be in a huge hole if injuries occur up front once again.

Now another option to improve the team but keep payroll below that budget level is through trades. Danny has not been shy about what he would have done had he been in a position of power back when Bird and McHale were aging. He readily admits he would have traded them and still says so to this day.


Quote
"Look at these two guys," Ainge told Auerbach, over the surrounding conversations of other players and their families. "Larry's got casts on his feet [from surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels], Kevin's got a screw in his foot [to repair a stress fracture]—you've got to trade these guys." Everyone laughed at Ainge's typical audacity, but he wasn't joking. "I would have traded Larry Bird," he insists today.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108251/index.htm

So given that there are a lot of teams looking to get out from under long contracts and another group that is craving expiring contracts so that they can become FA players in 2010 and given that Ray Allen is a very good to All Star caliber player in great health with one of the largest expiring contracts out there, does it behoove Ainge to move Ray so that he can make the team better and deeper while at the same time keeping payroll lower?

For instance, let's say Danny could work out a trade with Golden State because they are having some financial problems and have a bunch of players with long running contracts that are going to have them well over the cap and uncompetitive for many years. He could move Ray and Scal, or about $23.1 million in salary to Golden State for Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette, Ronny Turiaf and Anthony Randolf for about $22.4 million. The Celtics could even send a future pick or two. The Warriors like Belinelli, Azubuike, Wright and Biedrins and I think that is the group they will build around for the future.

Doing something like this, and I mean something like this not this particular trade, could possibly fill a few holes for the Celtics on their bench while still getting back a competent starting SG. They might even be able to save a $1 million or so. And then they could still resign Baby and be under the $85-86 million budget. Other teams might want to do something similar like Dallas, Phoenix, Sacramento and others. The market is definitely there for Danny to strike.

But the question is, will he? Now if he resigns Baby to a 5 year $5 million contract and then splits the MLE on Hill and Nesterovic and gives Marbury the LLE, then I guess my whole "Danny has a budget" theory is all wet and lots of people will return to this thread and justifiably mock me. Hell, I'll bump it to mock myself.

But I don't think that's going to be necessary. Danny knows with a healthy Garnett, a healthy Pierce and Perk and Rondo developing and being more consistent that he could live without Ray Allen as long as he has a long and strong and veteran bench with a youngster thrown in here and there(Walker and Giddens).

It should be interesting to see and I think it won't be too long after the new champs are crowned that we will now for sure exactly what direction Danny will lean to. I, for one, can't wait because this team still has at least one more championship in them. I can feel it.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 02:42:54 AM »

Offline I Am A Boston Celtic

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Ray Allen will retire as a Celtic, as will Kevin Garnett & Paul Pierce.

Together they brought us #17 and together, they may bring us another one.

We owe it too them, to retire as Celtics, if they so wish.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 02:46:10 AM »

Offline dlpin

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I will say what I said in one of the several other threads regarding Ray Allen's future with the celtics:

Any team that wants to cut payroll by acquiring an expiring deal will only do so close to the trade deadline. No reason to trade for a 18 mill a year player early on when you can deal for him near the trade deadline. Besides, this doesn't really make sense: so because we are so over the cap we are going to trade a player to provide cap relief to other teams?

Any team that has any interest in him as a player is going to be a top team one player away from a title, and in that case no way we get fair value.

Finally, it would really hurt the chemistry and the desirability of veterans to come here. Come here, play your ass off, including in D, put your own numbers aside and buy into the ubuntu concept and as a reward get shipped out after one poor playoff series?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 03:23:09 AM by dlpin »

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 02:56:23 AM »

Offline kheeko

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Ray Allen will retire as a Celtic


nuff said

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 03:20:56 AM »

Offline Galiza Ceive

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The Allen gone next year is Tony, not Ray.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 03:23:17 AM »

Offline star18

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Perfect. Anything for Captain Jack.  He is my favorite player in the NBA!!  I LOVE STEPHEN JACKSON!!!

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 03:59:43 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Perfect. Anything for Captain Jack.  He is my favorite player in the NBA!!  I LOVE STEPHEN JACKSON!!!

I don't know you to know if you are being sarcastic, but I really hope so.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 04:07:12 AM »

Offline Rida

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I really think there is over a 70% chance he gets traded in the off season.

Think about the number of teams trying to get under the cap for the free agent class of 2010.

Ray's contract will be a huge chip. Although it becomes more valuable closer to the deadline if we are going to try and win a championship with next years group we will not be able to gel between mid feb and the time the playoffs begin.

Thats why I can see Ray getting traded in the off-season for a good younger player

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 04:21:13 AM »

Offline dlpin

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I really think there is over a 70% chance he gets traded in the off season.

Think about the number of teams trying to get under the cap for the free agent class of 2010.

Ray's contract will be a huge chip. Although it becomes more valuable closer to the deadline if we are going to try and win a championship with next years group we will not be able to gel between mid feb and the time the playoffs begin.

Thats why I can see Ray getting traded in the off-season for a good younger player

Which are these teams trying to get under the cap for the "class of 2010?"

The Knicks? Right now they have 18 million in contracts for the 2010/11 season, so they don't need to do any trades to get under the cap. The Bulls? The same. Fact is, the only big market teams (and therefore the only realistic destinations for the top FA) that would currently be at or over the cap for 2010 are the Lakers, Dallas and Philly.

So I really, really doubt Ray Allen is going to be traded. And I really hope he isn't.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 05:10:11 AM »

Offline Drucci

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Ray Allen won't be traded.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 05:21:42 AM »

Offline greenwise

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The Big 3 is the identity and heart of this team. Ray is not going anywhere. Plus, we need part of his salary for Rondo's extension.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 05:24:22 AM »

Offline thedawg

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I have been thinking the exact same thing [Ray Allen/Scalabrine trade] but have not gone so far to mention any takers.  It is hard to trade Ray Allen but the situation the team is right now simply calls for it.  One of the Big 3 must be traded! Simple as that!  By doing that we could resign BBD and Leon Powe and get two, possibly tree solid guys to come in and take over from R.Allen/Scalabrine. [Tony Allen might even be added to that package too to].

We would definitely need a shooter and a big man [if not two] and hope that Stephon Marbury signs up again next season.  I would like to see him during a full season at the Celtics competing with Rondo at the point. That would give us so much width which we did lack this year which Doc Rivers silently agreed  with me about by keeping his rotation to minimum.
In Danny Ainge I Trust!

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 05:54:27 AM »

Offline dlpin

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I have been thinking the exact same thing [Ray Allen/Scalabrine trade] but have not gone so far to mention any takers.  It is hard to trade Ray Allen but the situation the team is right now simply calls for it.  One of the Big 3 must be traded! Simple as that!  By doing that we could resign BBD and Leon Powe and get two, possibly tree solid guys to come in and take over from R.Allen/Scalabrine. [Tony Allen might even be added to that package too to].

Your scenario makes no sense. To trade ray allen, salaries either need to match, or the other team needs to be under the cap. If the other team is under the cap, why would they trade for an expensive expiring contract? If the other team is not under the cap, than getting 20 million dollars in contracts back makes it harder to resign other players, not easier.


People need to realize that Ray Allen is not going to be traded, as it would make absolutely no sense. It would hurt chemistry, and trading him for talent would net us cents on the dollar in term of value, and actually hurts our cap situation.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 05:58:19 AM »

Offline celticmaestro

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I don't think so and I really hope not. But you just never know.

Re: Has Ray Allen played his last game as a Celtic?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 06:31:51 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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People need to realize that Ray Allen is not going to be traded, as it would make absolutely no sense. It would hurt chemistry, and trading him for talent would net us cents on the dollar in term of value, and actually hurts our cap situation.
I think you are about as far off as you can be here. First off, once KG went down and even while he was here playing, it was evident that the chemistry this team had in 2007-08 was not there for 2008-09. Chemistry can be good but trades are not made or not made based solely on wanting to keep the the current state of chemistry. Trades will be made or not made to change the chemistry but never based on trying to keep it.

Second, Ray Allen is as valuable now as he is going to get and given that he is a $20 million expiring contract AND an All Star who can shoot 48% from the field, 40% from three and over 95%  from the free throw line AND a team leader AND has championship experience makes it almost impossible to expect only pennies on the dollar for Ray. Our team already has 2-3 other players who can be team leader types. Many teams don't have any, and will pay dearly for one.

And as for the cap, as long as we add viable, younger talent, we really aren't going to hurt our cap situation. As this team moves forward it's Perk and Rondo that will be at its center not Pierce and KG and because of this as Pierce and KG expire the cap situation will become excellent. Since Ray, Paul and KG expire in consecutive years, I don't see how trading Ray for good players who's contract run 3-5 years down the road hurts the cap situation.

Again, I'm not advocating a specific trade. I just want to make that clear. I think the point I am trying to convey is there is a distinct possibility that Danny MIGHT have to trade a Big Three member in order to improve this team more because he will have fiscal restraints being applied to him. I just see no other reason than to make some of the decision he has made over the last 12 months that explain his choices of player acquisition than a mandated maximum salary spending limit.