Rondo's defense is overrated

[CoachBo]

I can't say I'm surprised to see people blindly defending Rondo's effort.

I'd just challenge you to watch it again. The defensive effort isn't there: from Rondo, and to a lesser extent, from several other players.

And it's been missing for awhbile. If that doesn't change, the off-season is right around the corner. As we saw yesterday, it doesn't matter what Rondo does offensively when he's making no effort to stop his man.

[nickagneta]

Rondo played excellent man up and deny defense on Rose yesterday. For about the first 4 minutes of the game and then it was back to the matador, poke from behind, reach in defense that we have seen from him all year. If Doc could take the tape of Rondo's defense from the first 3-4 minutes of yesterday's game and show it non stop to Rondo between now and the next game, maybe he'll get it.

It's really to bad too because Rondo has the tools to be the best defensive PG in the league. He has excellent lateral movement, he's lightening quick, he has long arms and huge hands, he has major hops, and he's smart. Yet, this year defensively, he's been an idiot. I love Rondo and think he will be a multiple time All-Star and eventually a first team NBA All-Defense player but not if he doesn't start to give this team what it needs with smart defense where he keeps his man in front of him, shuffles his feet and realizes who is on the court with him.

Too, often he is funneling his man into players who aren't shot blockers. KG and Perk are players he can rely on if he wants to gamble every so often, but Rondo, be aware when your front court players are all 6'7" and have no shot blocking ability for crying out loud.

[housecall]

2 words describes it for me...defensive laziness.

[CoachBo]

I agree. The defensive effort has been absent for awhile. It's just more acute when your PG is getting broken down consistently in the first 10 seconds of most possessions. What we're learning this year is that the idea that Rondo is a brilliant man defender is another Celtics Blog Internet legend.

To be sure, there are other defensive matchups that worry me. Thomas had better stop draining outside shots, because Davis can't guard against the dribble drive and slow the perimeter game down too. He's not quick enough.

[housecall]

I agree. The defensive effort has been absent for awhile. It's just more acute when your PG is getting broken down consistently in the first 10 seconds of most possessions. What we're learning this year is that the idea that Rondo is a brilliant man defender is another Celtics Blog Internet legend.

To be sure, there are other defensive matchups that worry me. Thomas had better stop draining outside shots, because Davis can't guard against the dribble drive and slow the perimeter game down too. He's not quick enough.

TP ...i was thinking about the same thing in reference to T.Thomas.

[pengaloo]

This thread is kind of confusing... I think there are two separate questions going on here. The first is whether Rondo's defense is not up to par. I think most of us agree that his defense could be better and that he has the ability to play better defense. The second question is where the disagreements come in, and that's why his defense has been a problem.

Some of the reasons brought up so far - lack of effort on his part, a question of desire, defensive laziness, gambling too much, ankle problems, too much offensive output, problems with the officiating, bad team defense and rotations, lack of front-court shot blockers, Rose's awesomeness...

It's unlikely that there's just one answer, it could be all of the above. But I agree with cdif911 that equating his defense yesterday to just lack of effort is unfair...

“It took a lot out of me, I mean, me - personally.”

When Rondo was asked if he meant the game had taken a lot out of him physically or mentally, he replied, “Yeah, both. But I’m going to get back, I’ll watch film tonight, see what I need to do better. And I’ll be fine (tomorrow). Just right now I’m extremely tired.” (from the Boston Herald)

[StartOrien]

Somewhat comical anecdote;

Yesterday at the game when Rose was absolutely going off he had scored what seemed like 19 consecutive baskets on Rondo (I'm not weighing in on the issue, I'd have to watch the game again, my initial thought was more 'rose is that good' then 'rondo's defense is that bad.') Then Marbury checked in the game, Rose scored one basket and the guy next to me leaned over angrily and said "This guy has GOT to retire, he's killing us!"

It was one of those moments when I went to say something back, and then decided it was probably best to bite my tongue and nod in agreement.

[Chief]

It's sometimes nice to have defense playing behind you. KG would not have let Rose have all those layups. But like another thread states; size matters. Powe and Baby are good players but not the greatest shot blockers in the world.

[housecall]

Chief,i agree,even though Rondo was getting beat by D.Rose on the offensive end,Perk,Mikki,and Powe needs to step up and send a message a couple times in the game.Back in the 70's,80's,and some of the 90's,the Bigs(C)would send a message a few times during the game.Instead of picking up fouls for moving picks,swiping at balls,etc.the Bigs should have used a few of their fouls on D.Rose,to make him think twice about coming through the lane.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Let me just preface this post by saying that the way Rose was playing last night, I think he was unstoppable.

With that said, Rondo was awful defensively, and here's the reason why. When Rose was driving Rondo didn't do much to keep him away from the basket, which should be his main responsibility against Rose. What he did do, is that he stayed in front of Rose, at times quite well, but once Rose was within 10-15 feet from the basket, Rondo stopped trying to stay in front on him and instead planted his feet and tried to swipe the ball. It's as simple as that, and it was his main flaw last night. On just about every single play that was the problem. His problem wasn't going for steals in the passing lanes or anything, it was simply him stopping moving his feet to try to get a steal within 10-15 feet from the basket.

It's freaking dumb defense, and as great as Rondo was last night, and it really pains me to say this because he was the only one that played with a lot of energy the whole game, he was very toxic defensively, and other than his individual offense, I don't feel he did a good job running our offense (but I'm not going to give him much crap about this because he put on a good show and kept us in the game).

With that said, the bigs need to do a better job against Rose, but hats off to Rose because he really had a fantastic game.

[FatjohnReturns]

Yup and he also gambles on defense too often.

[johnnyrondo]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

These players and coaches have been playing and or coaching bball their whole life, please do not Monday Morning QB them on stuff that is plainly obvious.  There is a reason scouts think Rondo's D is money and we have fans on here thinking he's a liability, it's b/c the fans don't know what they're talking about.

So are you an NBA player, scout, or coach? Which one?

I coach basketball and I can tell you that Rondo wasn't "funneling" yesterday. He was getting beat. Rondo's defense can be "money," but it wasn't yesterday. Whether that was do to his ankle I don't know, but his defense was poor (and this is coming from a guy that loves Rondo's game).

[Steve Weinman]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

These players and coaches have been playing and or coaching bball their whole life, please do not Monday Morning QB them on stuff that is plainly obvious.  There is a reason scouts think Rondo's D is money and we have fans on here thinking he's a liability, it's b/c the fans don't know what they're talking about.

So are you an NBA player, scout, or coach? Which one?

I coach basketball and I can tell you that Rondo wasn't "funneling" yesterday. He was getting beat. Rondo's defense can be "money," but it wasn't yesterday. Whether that was do to his ankle I don't know, but his defense was poor (and this is coming from a guy that loves Rondo's game).

Well put, johnnyrondo.

-sw

[KCattheStripe]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

These players and coaches have been playing and or coaching bball their whole life, please do not Monday Morning QB them on stuff that is plainly obvious.  There is a reason scouts think Rondo's D is money and we have fans on here thinking he's a liability, it's b/c the fans don't know what they're talking about.

So are you an NBA player, scout, or coach? Which one?

I coach basketball and I can tell you that Rondo wasn't "funneling" yesterday. He was getting beat. Rondo's defense can be "money," but it wasn't yesterday. Whether that was do to his ankle I don't know, but his defense was poor (and this is coming from a guy that loves Rondo's game).

Well put, johnnyrondo.

-sw

I don't think it was well put, as a matter of fact it was fairly stand offish. Especially when I'm sure the scouts he was referring to were the one's from Ian Thompson's article a week ago which read:

All-Defensive First Team.

G Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
G Kobe Bryant
F LeBron James
F Kevin Garnett
C Dwight Howard

Rondo was the surprise here. "Off the ball, he takes chances and he's not solid,'' a panelist said. "But I love his ability to get everybody on the team to defend. Garnett has the fanfare, and he deserves it, but when Garnett has been out, you notice that this guy [Rondo] is the guy who goes out to meet the ball. I love the way he gets over the screens, plays the 1 and 2 and at times he has even played Kobe Bryant on defense. When they have to have a major stop, it's Rondo. He sets the tone out front and gets them to be good defensive team.''

[johnnyrondo]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

These players and coaches have been playing and or coaching bball their whole life, please do not Monday Morning QB them on stuff that is plainly obvious.  There is a reason scouts think Rondo's D is money and we have fans on here thinking he's a liability, it's b/c the fans don't know what they're talking about.

So are you an NBA player, scout, or coach? Which one?

I coach basketball and I can tell you that Rondo wasn't "funneling" yesterday. He was getting beat. Rondo's defense can be "money," but it wasn't yesterday. Whether that was do to his ankle I don't know, but his defense was poor (and this is coming from a guy that loves Rondo's game).

Well put, johnnyrondo.

-sw

I don't think it was well put, as a matter of fact it was fairly stand offish. Especially when I'm sure the scouts he was referring to were the one's from Ian Thompson's article a week ago which read:

All-Defensive First Team.

G Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
G Kobe Bryant
F LeBron James
F Kevin Garnett
C Dwight Howard

Rondo was the surprise here. "Off the ball, he takes chances and he's not solid,'' a panelist said. "But I love his ability to get everybody on the team to defend. Garnett has the fanfare, and he deserves it, but when Garnett has been out, you notice that this guy [Rondo] is the guy who goes out to meet the ball. I love the way he gets over the screens, plays the 1 and 2 and at times he has even played Kobe Bryant on defense. When they have to have a major stop, it's Rondo. He sets the tone out front and gets them to be good defensive team.''

KC, I believe that the all defensive first team they were talking about was for the regular season. I doubt scouts would put him on the "All Defensive Playoffs Game 1 First Team". He had a poor game defensively and you need to "bring it" even more in the playoffs. Hopefully he does a better job in gm 2 (unless it's injury related. Then we're in even bigger trouble).