Rondo's defense is overrated

[cordobes]

They weren't even close to that today. Rondo's defensive effort was embarrassing, the bigs weren't much, the bench was missing in action. Defense begins with understanding concepts, and then expending a bunch of effort. The effort wasn't there today, it hasn't been there for awhile and you can't flip a switch to get it. As EJ points out, the desire to play defense isn't there, and Rondo was the most glaring example of that today.

I'm telling you, this has to change or the off-season starts soon. Very soon.

Well said, but I wanted to stress the underlined phrases. CoachBo has been calling our attention to this issue for awhile and rightly so. It's not that easy to just increase your defensive focus, communication and effort when you've been used to play without it for a good stretch. Hopefully they start in the next game already.

[yoursweatersux]

I'm glad I'm not the only person to have noticed this.

Frankly, I've got a hunch that Rondo's lack of defensive effort is somehow correlated to his offensive output... aka "The Tracy McGrady Effect".

That being, the more effort a player spends on one side of the court the less energy he has on the other. Last year, Rondo put a lot of effort into the defensive side, and consequently, his offensive numbers weren't as high. This year the opposite has occurred. The question is, where is his effort best spent for the team?

I'd argue that certain players on certain teams actually do convey a greater benefit upon their team when they maximize their offense at the expense of their defense. But some old research on 82games.com I just remembered reading suddenly popped into my head... they looked at production across each position to determine which position had the greatest impact on wins. What they found was, the MOST important factor of a successful team was the ability to limit the opposing point guard's total production (aka, points, assists, offensive rebounds, etc.). This doesn't necessarily mean your point guard needs to be a defensive stud... great team defense can have the same effect.

And if you think about it, it makes total sense. Great point guards make their teammates better. So if you make their point guard worse, you make their whole team worse. After all, the ball is in the hands of the point guard most of the game anyway.

So the point I'm making is that Rondo really needs to step up his defense on the opposing team's point guard, particularly when it's a quality one like Derrick Rose. Let Paul Pierce and Ray Allen do the scoring... believe me, they're more than capable of defending the likes of Salmons and Gordon and still having the energy to put up points on the other end.

[Tr1boy]

Rondo no defense?? Derrick Rose rookie or not IS the best penetrating pg in the league . Rondo did all he could and if you think about neutralized roses production pretty much. Its the other players who didn't come to play.

Ray allen and pierce need to step it up

[yoursweatersux]

Rondo no defense?? Derrick Rose rookie or not IS the best penetrating pg in the league . Rondo did all he could and if you think about neutralized roses production pretty much. Its the other players who didn't come to play.

Ray allen and pierce need to step it up

First of all, Derrick Rose is not the best penetrating pg in the league at all. Tony Parker, TJ Ford, Chis Paul, Deron Williams and hell even dudes like JJ Barea are all certifiable ankle breakers and can make the argument that they're better at penetrating than Rose. Secondly, if you think Rondo did all he could then you must not have ever seen a game where Rondo was actually trying on defense. I've seen just about every Celtics game Rondo has played in during his entire career, and I can tell you that he was definitely taking some possessions off. Lastly, you're not neutralizing a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. thing if the pg you're guarding goes off for 36 points. As I stated before, failure to defend the other team's point guard has a trickle-down effect that might not show up in the stat sheet but nonetheless kills your team.

Rondo needs to play harder defense, it's that simple. Just remember, EVERY time you say something like "the bigs were slow to rotate" that's an indictment of whoever was defending the guy with the ball in the first place. And today, that guy was Rondo.

[EJPLAYA]

Rondo no defense?? Derrick Rose rookie or not IS the best penetrating pg in the league . Rondo did all he could and if you think about neutralized roses production pretty much. Its the other players who didn't come to play.

Ray allen and pierce need to step it up

First of all, Derrick Rose is not the best penetrating pg in the league at all. Tony Parker, TJ Ford, Chis Paul, Deron Williams and hell even dudes like JJ Barea are all certifiable ankle breakers and can make the argument that they're better at penetrating than Rose. Secondly, if you think Rondo did all he could then you must not have ever seen a game where Rondo was actually trying on defense. I've seen just about every Celtics game Rondo has played in during his entire career, and I can tell you that he was definitely taking some possessions off. Lastly, you're not neutralizing a **** thing if the pg you're guarding goes off for 36 points. As I stated before, failure to defend the other team's point guard has a trickle-down effect that might not show up in the stat sheet but nonetheless kills your team.

Rondo needs to play harder defense, it's that simple. Just remember, EVERY time you say something like "the bigs were slow to rotate" that's an indictment of whoever was defending the guy with the ball in the first place. And today, that guy was Rondo.

BIG TP's to you on this post. That is exactly what the problem was today. How sad is it that our team could have overcome a very off night from Ray, an off first half from PP, and an injured KG if only Rondo had decided that this wasn't a contest of one-up'ing the other guy on the offensive end. He had at least half of the possessions where he made at best a paltry attempt to guard Rose. He made very feeble attempts to fight through the screens. Rondo is as quick if not quicker than Rose is, which means it was about "want to" more than anything.

[Steve Weinman]

Just remember, EVERY time you say something like "the bigs were slow to rotate" that's an indictment of whoever was defending the guy with the ball in the first place.

Quoted for being really super mega-important.  TP, yss.

-sw

[CoachBo]

Just remember, EVERY time you say something like "the bigs were slow to rotate" that's an indictment of whoever was defending the guy with the ball in the first place.

Quoted for being really super mega-important.  TP, yss.

-sw

And one more for yss. Very well stated, especially on the screens as I look back at the game. Reminds me of the Philly first half, when Marbury's effort defensively in the second half stood in stark contrast to Rondo's first-half sleepwalk.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Guys, we need to take a step back from this game.  Sure, Derrick Rose had a great game and Rondo was guarding him for most of it.  But let's remember a few things:

1.  The Cs were terrible in their transition defense.  How many times did Rondo drive, score and fall down, only to watch Rose get the ball and motor it up the court before he could get back on defense?  On several occasions, we failed to pick Rose in transition and he burned us.  Not Rondo's fault, but a team-wide failure to get back on defense.

2.  Rose got a lot of calls.  Seriously, this guy's a rookie but he goes to the line 12 times!  Lots of those calls were crap and made it hard for Rondo to really get his body into Rose on the defensive end.  If Rondo got the same level of respect from the officials, he'd been in the All-Star game this year (and we'd have won this game).  And not only did Rose get a heavy dose of superstar calls out there, the officials also looked the other way with many possible traveling/palming violations.  Again, if you bend the rules, it makes a guy hard to guard.

3.  Speaking of bending the rules, how many illegal screens did Noah set today?  I counted at least 10, there were probably more.  Again, that makes a guy hard to guard.  Perk sets a harmless pick in the first quarter and gets whistled for a moving screen, meanwhile Noah and Miller do it the entire game and nothing was whistled.  Ridiculous!

4.  Our bigs need to do a better job blitzing the pick and roll.  Rose was allowed to get a running head start around every pick.  We need to flash him on the pick much quicker next game.

5.  Last--Rondo is hurt, or at least limited.  I know this is dubious, but a friend-of-a-friend saw Rondo in an elevator at a local hospital on Thursday.  He was headed for the orthopedics floor.  Sure, it could have been anything from having a simple checkup to getting some new inserts made...or he could have a lingering problem with his feet from that spat of ankle injuries he had last month.

That said, I agree Rondo needs to do a better job meeting Rose at the point of attack, picking him up full court, and keeping him in front of him.  But other than the superstar calls Rose got (leading to 12 free throws), the Rondo/Rose matchup was a wash...they both did whatever they wanted to do on the offensive end of things.  So, it's not that big of a concern going forward, while things like getting back in transition and keeping the ball moving on offense are much bigger problems and things we need address if we want to win the next game. 

I guarantee you this: Rose isn't going have a better game the rest of the post-season.

[CoachBo]

Transition defense was bad, I will grant you that.

However, I'm running through the game on the DVR - late third - and I frankly think the complaints about the officiating are garbage, as I did during the game. There are a few calls I don't like, but nothing that seriously impacts the game. Rose gets to the line too much because Rondo's simply not putting out on the defensive end of the floor.

Coaches have different styles, but he'd be put on notice ASAP that taking possessions off to get the basketball back and try to score on the other end will earn him time beside me. I have no interest in some ego-driven offensive tit-for-tat when continued defensive breakdowns at the PG position are disrupting my whole defensive scheme.

And finally, a bad ankle - which I played most of my career with, limited though it was - NEVER stopped me from giving enough effort to fight around or through a screen.

I had a problem with Rondo's lack of defensive effort the first time I watched this game; that problem is growing right now as I watch it again.

[bleedinggreen34]

Rondo's D is very good, it's the team defense the C's player.  It's [dang] near a zone at times.  Rondo is supposed to funnel penetration to the help and not over pursue so that he can get back to the perimeter if the ball moves that way.  His D has looked worse since KG has gone out b/c Perk has slow feet and Big Baby is no KG.

[johnnyrondo]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals. One thing that Chicago did well was whenever Rondo drove and scored, usually ending up out of bounds behind the hoop, the Bulls would inbound super quick to Rose and he's push it up court. Someone needs to do a better job of picking up Rose.

Speaking of Rose, I love that kid. Humble too. I wish Dantoni would have taken the Bulls job. They'd be my second favorite team then and we wouldn't be playing them, b/c they'd be a higher seed. I can see why Wade and Miami wanted Rose. A Rose/Wade backcourt would of been out of this world.

[bleedinggreen34]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

These players and coaches have been playing and or coaching bball their whole life, please do not Monday Morning QB them on stuff that is plainly obvious.  There is a reason scouts think Rondo's D is money and we have fans on here thinking he's a liability, it's b/c the fans don't know what they're talking about.

[EJPLAYA]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

If you keep in front of your man then the guy doesn't get all the way to the hoop. You have cut him off out on the perimeter and he gives the ball up. Rotations are only necessary when someone beats their man or gets picked. If you don't let your man blow past you, and you do a better job fighting through the screen, you don't get torched. Rondo's lack of effort in both of these situations were the first domino falling.

[CoachBo]

Precisely.

The Showtime Duel, as another poster puts it, was the beginning of the end for this game.

And if Rondo doesn't dial the defensive effort up from C level, along with the rest of the club, this playoff series is it, fellas. He wasn't "taking chances." He was releasing his guy, sometimes immediately, and he wasn't expending effort to get through screens. Flatly, he was dogging it on the defensive end.

[cdif911]

If the problem is Rondo's ankle then he should of been held out games at the end of the season. So what if we fall to the #3 seed. Playing Philly doesn't look that awful right now either. I mentioned Rondo's inability to stay in front of his man in the game thread. That's huge and more important than steals.

If the intention was for Rondo to stay with his man all the way to the hoop, don't you think Doc would tell Rondo or have made that clear at this point?  Have you noticed that Rondo isn't staying in front of his man...but also that - until the Rose explosion yesterday - that man was generally hitting a brick wall and not scoring?

Again, that's [Rondo staying w his man all the way to the hoop] not how this defense is designed.  It's designed to take chances and to funnel penetration to the bigs and keep the guards free from the hoop so they can help on the perimeter.

If you keep in front of your man then the guy doesn't get all the way to the hoop. You have cut him off out on the perimeter and he gives the ball up. Rotations are only necessary when someone beats their man or gets picked. If you don't let your man blow past you, and you do a better job fighting through the screen, you don't get torched. Rondo's lack of effort in both of these situations were the first domino falling.

yes Rondo failed to stay in front of his man, but to equate it to lack of effort is unfair - A) there was always a screen up top which Rondo got caught in, often times it was a screen that if Perk set would be considered moving and B) Rose is an unbelievable north south player, and he now seems to be able to hit the 15 footer -  he's not unguardable, but when he's rolling, he's pretty darned hard to stop