Mikki Moore is the worst defensive big man in the NBA (vent thread)

[BballTim]

This whole line of discussion comes from one place only. With Scal and TA injured and not playing, and POB traded away to another squad, we have no one else to badmouth. Very few on here have the guts to call out the starters and what they are doing wrong, rather make excuses for them. Instead they look for the second and third stringers to rip on. Obviously these guys have major flaws or they'd be starting somewhere. They however are not however the difference in us winning and losing most of the time and certainly won't get many minutes when it matters in the playoffs. The guy played 11 minutes last night matched up against Dwight Howard who is an athletic freak. Please people...

Says the guy who has spent months criticizing BBD.

Really Roy?! You don't see any difference in pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe, and our thir string big man who has a handful of games uner his belt and some of them pretty solid ones?

No, I don't really see the difference between Tony, Moore, and Scal vs. BBD.  All are flawed players, who have spent a considerable amount of time in the rotation this year.  Moore is averaging 17 minutes per game.  That's right in line with what BBD, Tony, Powe and House are averaging.

Also, I'm not sure I'd characterize your criticism of BBD as solely "pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe".  I know fairly recently you said some complimentary things about BBD, but overall, you've been largely scathing.

I am not at all saying that there shouldn't be some criticism of his play. I am just baffled why we don't see the same comments about our starters when they come out and play like garbage for games at a time. I am all for some good natured negativity!

When the starters do abjectly stupid things (like Moore makes a habit of), they get criticized for it, too.  There's more criticism of Moore because he makes more stupid mistakes, and does fewer positive things to make people forget the mistakes.

There is a big difference, because BBD is SUPPOSED to be in the rotation playing 17 min a game and Mikki isn't. If KG and Powe and BBD recently were healthy and playing normal minutes, Mikki wouldn't be getting more than a couple minutes of garbage time like POB was. Expecting the guy to come in and play 2nd string minutes instead of spot duty, especially when often being matched up against starters like Howard or smaller players on rotation is a little insane. He was only brought in for foul trouble and a lot of DNP's and instead got thrust into bigger minutes. Of course he isn't going to look incredible.

As far as the BBD criticism, the reason that I recently have made some very positive comments about him is because he is just barely starting to deserve them. Once he dropped his weight to a reasonable level again he is starting to show the committment and ability out on the floor to deserve to be in the discussion of a true solid backup. When he let himself go not only did he lose any good will for work ethic, he lost much of his quickness and it hurt his game. That is why his minutes towards the end of last year dropped in huge bunches.

Almost no one on here makes scathing remarks about the leaders. I have been consistent in my comments when warranted. I have ripped PP at the first of the year for lack of effort. I ripped Rondo today even for playing lazy defense. I have been hard on KG's refusal to do the dirty work at times down in the post. I have been ticked at Perk's stupid offensive fouls he can't seem to let go. I pretty much love Ray and everything he does, so I have not really had the chance to let him have it. I am an equal opportunity ripper!

but why isn't Mikki supposed to be getting minutes. he is essentially replacing PJ on the roster from last season. and PJ was a key player for our bench in the playoffs.

we were pushing much of the season to get PJ to come out of retirement, but once it was clear that wasn't going to happen, signing a released player was plan B....and that turned out to be Mikki...

so i think it is fair to think about Mikki's contributions in terms of PJ because that is who we have been trying to replace all season....

as far as BBD goes, he is the same size he was last year this time. I'm not sure what you are basing the idea on that he has all of a sudden taken off a big amount of weight...

Not true at all as far as BBD's weight. Go look at pics from the first of the year, the middle, and then at the end including the parade where he interestingly enough decided he had the physique to take his shirt off. He looks MUCH slimmer right now and I have given him props for getting it back under control. He was adding weight at a fast pace as the season went on. The pics are clear and his PT suffered. Doc even made a comment somewhere towards the end of the year about it, but I can't put my hands on it.

That being said, his hard work earned him the right to minutes over Mikki, as Powe's did. Last year in the playoffs PJ was a better option than either of the two due to BBD not being in shape to play and inexperienced, and Powe being less experienced and not as long. Mikki was not the signing that they were looking for to replace PJ. He was the signing to upgrade POB since they knew they weren't going to end up with Joe Smith or a more talented other veteran. When they signed Mikki they weren't looking for 17 minutes. If so, where were they going to come from? Powe, BBD, KG, Perk?! They were upgrading POB and nothing more. If one of Powe or BBD went down then he was an option. Especially since Scal was injured.

totally disagree about Baby's weight. he's right where he was last year. He's pushing 3 bills easy. And that is fine by me.

and just because they downgraded their expectations because they thought they couldn't get Smith, they were still trying to get him... which (like their efforts to get PJ out of retirement) indicates they were looking for a key player to add to the bench not just someone better than POB.

moving POB was simply to open the roster spot. If the plan was for POB to be a player this year, then why were they working from the beginning of the season trying to get PJ out of retirement?

  Why does it indicate that? Davis is no superstar but he's clearly improved since last year and he's playing a bigger role  than he did last year. I think they're expecting him to play more than he did last postseason (8 minutes a game with 9 DNPs). Also, Perk only played about 25 minutes a game and I'd expect him to play more than that (he's at 29 a game this year but 33 a game in march). The fact that they're looking for a 5th big doesn't mean that he'd be playing PJ's role from last year. Even if we had gotten PJ to come back his role would likely have been reduced.

[wdleehi]

Moore is the same player he was before he got here.



The 11th or 12th man on a lotto team. 


Unfortunately for the Celtics, he is now the 4th (and 2nd healthy) big man.

[winsomme]

This whole line of discussion comes from one place only. With Scal and TA injured and not playing, and POB traded away to another squad, we have no one else to badmouth. Very few on here have the guts to call out the starters and what they are doing wrong, rather make excuses for them. Instead they look for the second and third stringers to rip on. Obviously these guys have major flaws or they'd be starting somewhere. They however are not however the difference in us winning and losing most of the time and certainly won't get many minutes when it matters in the playoffs. The guy played 11 minutes last night matched up against Dwight Howard who is an athletic freak. Please people...

Says the guy who has spent months criticizing BBD.

Really Roy?! You don't see any difference in pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe, and our thir string big man who has a handful of games uner his belt and some of them pretty solid ones?

No, I don't really see the difference between Tony, Moore, and Scal vs. BBD.  All are flawed players, who have spent a considerable amount of time in the rotation this year.  Moore is averaging 17 minutes per game.  That's right in line with what BBD, Tony, Powe and House are averaging.

Also, I'm not sure I'd characterize your criticism of BBD as solely "pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe".  I know fairly recently you said some complimentary things about BBD, but overall, you've been largely scathing.

I am not at all saying that there shouldn't be some criticism of his play. I am just baffled why we don't see the same comments about our starters when they come out and play like garbage for games at a time. I am all for some good natured negativity!

When the starters do abjectly stupid things (like Moore makes a habit of), they get criticized for it, too.  There's more criticism of Moore because he makes more stupid mistakes, and does fewer positive things to make people forget the mistakes.

There is a big difference, because BBD is SUPPOSED to be in the rotation playing 17 min a game and Mikki isn't. If KG and Powe and BBD recently were healthy and playing normal minutes, Mikki wouldn't be getting more than a couple minutes of garbage time like POB was. Expecting the guy to come in and play 2nd string minutes instead of spot duty, especially when often being matched up against starters like Howard or smaller players on rotation is a little insane. He was only brought in for foul trouble and a lot of DNP's and instead got thrust into bigger minutes. Of course he isn't going to look incredible.

As far as the BBD criticism, the reason that I recently have made some very positive comments about him is because he is just barely starting to deserve them. Once he dropped his weight to a reasonable level again he is starting to show the committment and ability out on the floor to deserve to be in the discussion of a true solid backup. When he let himself go not only did he lose any good will for work ethic, he lost much of his quickness and it hurt his game. That is why his minutes towards the end of last year dropped in huge bunches.

Almost no one on here makes scathing remarks about the leaders. I have been consistent in my comments when warranted. I have ripped PP at the first of the year for lack of effort. I ripped Rondo today even for playing lazy defense. I have been hard on KG's refusal to do the dirty work at times down in the post. I have been ticked at Perk's stupid offensive fouls he can't seem to let go. I pretty much love Ray and everything he does, so I have not really had the chance to let him have it. I am an equal opportunity ripper!

but why isn't Mikki supposed to be getting minutes. he is essentially replacing PJ on the roster from last season. and PJ was a key player for our bench in the playoffs.

we were pushing much of the season to get PJ to come out of retirement, but once it was clear that wasn't going to happen, signing a released player was plan B....and that turned out to be Mikki...

so i think it is fair to think about Mikki's contributions in terms of PJ because that is who we have been trying to replace all season....

as far as BBD goes, he is the same size he was last year this time. I'm not sure what you are basing the idea on that he has all of a sudden taken off a big amount of weight...

Not true at all as far as BBD's weight. Go look at pics from the first of the year, the middle, and then at the end including the parade where he interestingly enough decided he had the physique to take his shirt off. He looks MUCH slimmer right now and I have given him props for getting it back under control. He was adding weight at a fast pace as the season went on. The pics are clear and his PT suffered. Doc even made a comment somewhere towards the end of the year about it, but I can't put my hands on it.

That being said, his hard work earned him the right to minutes over Mikki, as Powe's did. Last year in the playoffs PJ was a better option than either of the two due to BBD not being in shape to play and inexperienced, and Powe being less experienced and not as long. Mikki was not the signing that they were looking for to replace PJ. He was the signing to upgrade POB since they knew they weren't going to end up with Joe Smith or a more talented other veteran. When they signed Mikki they weren't looking for 17 minutes. If so, where were they going to come from? Powe, BBD, KG, Perk?! They were upgrading POB and nothing more. If one of Powe or BBD went down then he was an option. Especially since Scal was injured.

totally disagree about Baby's weight. he's right where he was last year. He's pushing 3 bills easy. And that is fine by me.

and just because they downgraded their expectations because they thought they couldn't get Smith, they were still trying to get him... which (like their efforts to get PJ out of retirement) indicates they were looking for a key player to add to the bench not just someone better than POB.

moving POB was simply to open the roster spot. If the plan was for POB to be a player this year, then why were they working from the beginning of the season trying to get PJ out of retirement?

  Why does it indicate that? Davis is no superstar but he's clearly improved since last year and he's playing a bigger role  than he did last year. I think they're expecting him to play more than he did last postseason (8 minutes a game with 9 DNPs). Also, Perk only played about 25 minutes a game and I'd expect him to play more than that (he's at 29 a game this year but 33 a game in march). The fact that they're looking for a 5th big doesn't mean that he'd be playing PJ's role from last year. Even if we had gotten PJ to come back his role would likely have been reduced.

anyway you slice it, the guy they are replacing from last year's team is PJ.

maybe PJ's role would have been reduced some, but i think push comes to shove in the playoffs and Doc would be going with PJ if he was here.

and no way IMO they were going after Joe Smith telling him he would be the 5th big....

I think it's pretty clear they were looking for a big that could have a significant impact...

[EJPLAYA]

This whole line of discussion comes from one place only. With Scal and TA injured and not playing, and POB traded away to another squad, we have no one else to badmouth. Very few on here have the guts to call out the starters and what they are doing wrong, rather make excuses for them. Instead they look for the second and third stringers to rip on. Obviously these guys have major flaws or they'd be starting somewhere. They however are not however the difference in us winning and losing most of the time and certainly won't get many minutes when it matters in the playoffs. The guy played 11 minutes last night matched up against Dwight Howard who is an athletic freak. Please people...

Says the guy who has spent months criticizing BBD.

Really Roy?! You don't see any difference in pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe, and our thir string big man who has a handful of games uner his belt and some of them pretty solid ones?

No, I don't really see the difference between Tony, Moore, and Scal vs. BBD.  All are flawed players, who have spent a considerable amount of time in the rotation this year.  Moore is averaging 17 minutes per game.  That's right in line with what BBD, Tony, Powe and House are averaging.

Also, I'm not sure I'd characterize your criticism of BBD as solely "pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe".  I know fairly recently you said some complimentary things about BBD, but overall, you've been largely scathing.

I am not at all saying that there shouldn't be some criticism of his play. I am just baffled why we don't see the same comments about our starters when they come out and play like garbage for games at a time. I am all for some good natured negativity!

When the starters do abjectly stupid things (like Moore makes a habit of), they get criticized for it, too.  There's more criticism of Moore because he makes more stupid mistakes, and does fewer positive things to make people forget the mistakes.

There is a big difference, because BBD is SUPPOSED to be in the rotation playing 17 min a game and Mikki isn't. If KG and Powe and BBD recently were healthy and playing normal minutes, Mikki wouldn't be getting more than a couple minutes of garbage time like POB was. Expecting the guy to come in and play 2nd string minutes instead of spot duty, especially when often being matched up against starters like Howard or smaller players on rotation is a little insane. He was only brought in for foul trouble and a lot of DNP's and instead got thrust into bigger minutes. Of course he isn't going to look incredible.

As far as the BBD criticism, the reason that I recently have made some very positive comments about him is because he is just barely starting to deserve them. Once he dropped his weight to a reasonable level again he is starting to show the committment and ability out on the floor to deserve to be in the discussion of a true solid backup. When he let himself go not only did he lose any good will for work ethic, he lost much of his quickness and it hurt his game. That is why his minutes towards the end of last year dropped in huge bunches.

Almost no one on here makes scathing remarks about the leaders. I have been consistent in my comments when warranted. I have ripped PP at the first of the year for lack of effort. I ripped Rondo today even for playing lazy defense. I have been hard on KG's refusal to do the dirty work at times down in the post. I have been ticked at Perk's stupid offensive fouls he can't seem to let go. I pretty much love Ray and everything he does, so I have not really had the chance to let him have it. I am an equal opportunity ripper!

but why isn't Mikki supposed to be getting minutes. he is essentially replacing PJ on the roster from last season. and PJ was a key player for our bench in the playoffs.

we were pushing much of the season to get PJ to come out of retirement, but once it was clear that wasn't going to happen, signing a released player was plan B....and that turned out to be Mikki...

so i think it is fair to think about Mikki's contributions in terms of PJ because that is who we have been trying to replace all season....

as far as BBD goes, he is the same size he was last year this time. I'm not sure what you are basing the idea on that he has all of a sudden taken off a big amount of weight...

Not true at all as far as BBD's weight. Go look at pics from the first of the year, the middle, and then at the end including the parade where he interestingly enough decided he had the physique to take his shirt off. He looks MUCH slimmer right now and I have given him props for getting it back under control. He was adding weight at a fast pace as the season went on. The pics are clear and his PT suffered. Doc even made a comment somewhere towards the end of the year about it, but I can't put my hands on it.

That being said, his hard work earned him the right to minutes over Mikki, as Powe's did. Last year in the playoffs PJ was a better option than either of the two due to BBD not being in shape to play and inexperienced, and Powe being less experienced and not as long. Mikki was not the signing that they were looking for to replace PJ. He was the signing to upgrade POB since they knew they weren't going to end up with Joe Smith or a more talented other veteran. When they signed Mikki they weren't looking for 17 minutes. If so, where were they going to come from? Powe, BBD, KG, Perk?! They were upgrading POB and nothing more. If one of Powe or BBD went down then he was an option. Especially since Scal was injured.

totally disagree about Baby's weight. he's right where he was last year. He's pushing 3 bills easy. And that is fine by me.

and just because they downgraded their expectations because they thought they couldn't get Smith, they were still trying to get him... which (like their efforts to get PJ out of retirement) indicates they were looking for a key player to add to the bench not just someone better than POB.

moving POB was simply to open the roster spot. If the plan was for POB to be a player this year, then why were they working from the beginning of the season trying to get PJ out of retirement?

  Why does it indicate that? Davis is no superstar but he's clearly improved since last year and he's playing a bigger role  than he did last year. I think they're expecting him to play more than he did last postseason (8 minutes a game with 9 DNPs). Also, Perk only played about 25 minutes a game and I'd expect him to play more than that (he's at 29 a game this year but 33 a game in march). The fact that they're looking for a 5th big doesn't mean that he'd be playing PJ's role from last year. Even if we had gotten PJ to come back his role would likely have been reduced.

anyway you slice it, the guy they are replacing from last year's team is PJ.

maybe PJ's role would have been reduced some, but i think push comes to shove in the playoffs and Doc would be going with PJ if he was here.

and no way IMO they were going after Joe Smith telling him he would be the 5th big....

I think it's pretty clear they were looking for a big that could have a significant impact...

He is filling the roster spot, not the role. Come on. You don't honestly think that Mikki was brought in here in order to have BBD sit on the bench, and Powe get limited minutes? That he was going to play in front of those two?!

I guess if you are comparing PJ's stats to Mikki's stats you might be right. They aren't any better... PJ sure gets better and better as time goes by...

[winsomme]

He is filling the roster spot, not the role. Come on. You don't honestly think that Mikki was brought in here in order to have BBD sit on the bench, and Powe get limited minutes? That he was going to play in front of those two?!

I guess if you are comparing PJ's stats to Mikki's stats you might be right. They aren't any better... PJ sure gets better and better as time goes by...

yes, Mikki fills a roster spot.

that's not the point being made.

the point being made is that they were looking to do more than fill a roster spot....there was a hole left by PJ retiring and the goal was to get a player capable of filling that hole.

as for last year's playoffs, i have read enough of your posts, EJ, to know that you are well aware of what PJ did for the team with his physical play.

i also know that you saw Mikki getting pushed all over the joint last night and that the playoffs are only going to get more physical.

is Baby or Leon going to be able to step up and fill in for PJs? hopefully. but the intent come deadline deals was to get another guy capable of filling that hole left from last season.

as for Mikki, like i said earlier, there are things that he can do to help the team, and i am rooting like heck that he finds that niche come playoff time.

[wdleehi]

He is filling the roster spot, not the role. Come on. You don't honestly think that Mikki was brought in here in order to have BBD sit on the bench, and Powe get limited minutes? That he was going to play in front of those two?!

I guess if you are comparing PJ's stats to Mikki's stats you might be right. They aren't any better... PJ sure gets better and better as time goes by...

yes, Mikki fills a roster spot.

that's not the point being made.

the point being made is that they were looking to do more than fill a roster spot....there was a hole left by PJ retiring and the goal was to get a player capable of filling that hole.

as for last year's playoffs, i have read enough of your posts, EJ, to know that you are well aware of what PJ did for the team with his physical play.

i also know that you saw Mikki getting pushed all over the joint last night and that the playoffs are only going to get more physical.

is Baby or Leon going to be able to step up and fill in for PJs? hopefully. but the intent come deadline deals was to get another guy capable of filling that hole left from last season.

as for Mikki, like i said earlier, there are things that he can do to help the team, and i am rooting like heck that he finds that niche come playoff time.

He is suppose to be more the a roster spot.  The Celtics had one of those already.


He was brought in to play C against the taller Cs that can shoot over Powe and Davis.

[winsomme]

He is filling the roster spot, not the role. Come on. You don't honestly think that Mikki was brought in here in order to have BBD sit on the bench, and Powe get limited minutes? That he was going to play in front of those two?!

I guess if you are comparing PJ's stats to Mikki's stats you might be right. They aren't any better... PJ sure gets better and better as time goes by...

yes, Mikki fills a roster spot.

that's not the point being made.

the point being made is that they were looking to do more than fill a roster spot....there was a hole left by PJ retiring and the goal was to get a player capable of filling that hole.

as for last year's playoffs, i have read enough of your posts, EJ, to know that you are well aware of what PJ did for the team with his physical play.

i also know that you saw Mikki getting pushed all over the joint last night and that the playoffs are only going to get more physical.

is Baby or Leon going to be able to step up and fill in for PJs? hopefully. but the intent come deadline deals was to get another guy capable of filling that hole left from last season.

as for Mikki, like i said earlier, there are things that he can do to help the team, and i am rooting like heck that he finds that niche come playoff time.

He is suppose to be more the a roster spot.  The Celtics had one of those already.


He was brought in to play C against the taller Cs that can shoot over Powe and Davis.

no argument here. we needed more than roster filler at the deadline.

but now the question is can Mikki be more than roster filler...

I think the answer to that question can still be "yes." I think if Mikki more aggressively takes his open jumpers and uses his length to tip rebounds out, he could add to the team.

he also, obviously, needs to stop fouling so much....

[BballTim]

This whole line of discussion comes from one place only. With Scal and TA injured and not playing, and POB traded away to another squad, we have no one else to badmouth. Very few on here have the guts to call out the starters and what they are doing wrong, rather make excuses for them. Instead they look for the second and third stringers to rip on. Obviously these guys have major flaws or they'd be starting somewhere. They however are not however the difference in us winning and losing most of the time and certainly won't get many minutes when it matters in the playoffs. The guy played 11 minutes last night matched up against Dwight Howard who is an athletic freak. Please people...

Says the guy who has spent months criticizing BBD.

Really Roy?! You don't see any difference in pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe, and our thir string big man who has a handful of games uner his belt and some of them pretty solid ones?

No, I don't really see the difference between Tony, Moore, and Scal vs. BBD.  All are flawed players, who have spent a considerable amount of time in the rotation this year.  Moore is averaging 17 minutes per game.  That's right in line with what BBD, Tony, Powe and House are averaging.

Also, I'm not sure I'd characterize your criticism of BBD as solely "pointing out the pluses and minuses of him and Powe".  I know fairly recently you said some complimentary things about BBD, but overall, you've been largely scathing.

I am not at all saying that there shouldn't be some criticism of his play. I am just baffled why we don't see the same comments about our starters when they come out and play like garbage for games at a time. I am all for some good natured negativity!

When the starters do abjectly stupid things (like Moore makes a habit of), they get criticized for it, too.  There's more criticism of Moore because he makes more stupid mistakes, and does fewer positive things to make people forget the mistakes.

There is a big difference, because BBD is SUPPOSED to be in the rotation playing 17 min a game and Mikki isn't. If KG and Powe and BBD recently were healthy and playing normal minutes, Mikki wouldn't be getting more than a couple minutes of garbage time like POB was. Expecting the guy to come in and play 2nd string minutes instead of spot duty, especially when often being matched up against starters like Howard or smaller players on rotation is a little insane. He was only brought in for foul trouble and a lot of DNP's and instead got thrust into bigger minutes. Of course he isn't going to look incredible.

As far as the BBD criticism, the reason that I recently have made some very positive comments about him is because he is just barely starting to deserve them. Once he dropped his weight to a reasonable level again he is starting to show the committment and ability out on the floor to deserve to be in the discussion of a true solid backup. When he let himself go not only did he lose any good will for work ethic, he lost much of his quickness and it hurt his game. That is why his minutes towards the end of last year dropped in huge bunches.

Almost no one on here makes scathing remarks about the leaders. I have been consistent in my comments when warranted. I have ripped PP at the first of the year for lack of effort. I ripped Rondo today even for playing lazy defense. I have been hard on KG's refusal to do the dirty work at times down in the post. I have been ticked at Perk's stupid offensive fouls he can't seem to let go. I pretty much love Ray and everything he does, so I have not really had the chance to let him have it. I am an equal opportunity ripper!

but why isn't Mikki supposed to be getting minutes. he is essentially replacing PJ on the roster from last season. and PJ was a key player for our bench in the playoffs.

we were pushing much of the season to get PJ to come out of retirement, but once it was clear that wasn't going to happen, signing a released player was plan B....and that turned out to be Mikki...

so i think it is fair to think about Mikki's contributions in terms of PJ because that is who we have been trying to replace all season....

as far as BBD goes, he is the same size he was last year this time. I'm not sure what you are basing the idea on that he has all of a sudden taken off a big amount of weight...

Not true at all as far as BBD's weight. Go look at pics from the first of the year, the middle, and then at the end including the parade where he interestingly enough decided he had the physique to take his shirt off. He looks MUCH slimmer right now and I have given him props for getting it back under control. He was adding weight at a fast pace as the season went on. The pics are clear and his PT suffered. Doc even made a comment somewhere towards the end of the year about it, but I can't put my hands on it.

That being said, his hard work earned him the right to minutes over Mikki, as Powe's did. Last year in the playoffs PJ was a better option than either of the two due to BBD not being in shape to play and inexperienced, and Powe being less experienced and not as long. Mikki was not the signing that they were looking for to replace PJ. He was the signing to upgrade POB since they knew they weren't going to end up with Joe Smith or a more talented other veteran. When they signed Mikki they weren't looking for 17 minutes. If so, where were they going to come from? Powe, BBD, KG, Perk?! They were upgrading POB and nothing more. If one of Powe or BBD went down then he was an option. Especially since Scal was injured.

totally disagree about Baby's weight. he's right where he was last year. He's pushing 3 bills easy. And that is fine by me.

and just because they downgraded their expectations because they thought they couldn't get Smith, they were still trying to get him... which (like their efforts to get PJ out of retirement) indicates they were looking for a key player to add to the bench not just someone better than POB.

moving POB was simply to open the roster spot. If the plan was for POB to be a player this year, then why were they working from the beginning of the season trying to get PJ out of retirement?

  Why does it indicate that? Davis is no superstar but he's clearly improved since last year and he's playing a bigger role  than he did last year. I think they're expecting him to play more than he did last postseason (8 minutes a game with 9 DNPs). Also, Perk only played about 25 minutes a game and I'd expect him to play more than that (he's at 29 a game this year but 33 a game in march). The fact that they're looking for a 5th big doesn't mean that he'd be playing PJ's role from last year. Even if we had gotten PJ to come back his role would likely have been reduced.

anyway you slice it, the guy they are replacing from last year's team is PJ.

maybe PJ's role would have been reduced some, but i think push comes to shove in the playoffs and Doc would be going with PJ if he was here.

and no way IMO they were going after Joe Smith telling him he would be the 5th big....

I think it's pretty clear they were looking for a big that could have a significant impact...

  You still think that the only way for the team to win is to duplicate last year's team exactly. Were they going to sign a big (PJ or someone else) to just average the number of minutes PJ got last year, or do you think they're going to duplicate things on a game by game basis? "Sorry, Rondo, but last year you only played 23 minutes in game 2 of the 2nd round, so you'll spend a lot of time on the bench tonight". Come on.

  Is the plan to limit Perk to 25 minutes a game because that's what he played last year? Would Davis be stuck with the 5 or so minutes he averaged last year? Clearly both of them will be expected to play more minutes than they did last year, and I don't think that all those minutes will come for KG. If they'd gotten Smith and he beat out Davis he'd get minutes and Glen wouldn't, but I doubt they guaranteed him minutes as you seem to assume. Obviously they were looking for impact players. That doesn't mean that Davis isn't better than he was last year, or that he can't play better than PJ did last year. If you factor in the extra minutes from Perk (better than PJ or Smith) we're in decent (not ideal but decent) shape.

[winsomme]

 You still think that the only way for the team to win is to duplicate last year's team exactly. Were they going to sign a big (PJ or someone else) to just average the number of minutes PJ got last year, or do you think they're going to duplicate things on a game by game basis? "Sorry, Rondo, but last year you only played 23 minutes in game 2 of the 2nd round, so you'll spend a lot of time on the bench tonight". Come on.

  Is the plan to limit Perk to 25 minutes a game because that's what he played last year? Would Davis be stuck with the 5 or so minutes he averaged last year? Clearly both of them will be expected to play more minutes than they did last year, and I don't think that all those minutes will come for KG. If they'd gotten Smith and he beat out Davis he'd get minutes and Glen wouldn't, but I doubt they guaranteed him minutes as you seem to assume. Obviously they were looking for impact players. That doesn't mean that Davis isn't better than he was last year, or that he can't play better than PJ did last year. If you factor in the extra minutes from Perk (better than PJ or Smith) we're in decent (not ideal but decent) shape.

if you read some of my interactions with EJ, BBall, you'll see that I already mentioned that BBD and/or Leon could fill the hole left by PJs departure.

but the team was clearly looking for an impact player and not just roster filler at the deadline.

as for only being able to win by duplicating last season, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that...

I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel here. You need a backup big to patrol the paint and knock down shots and that's what PJ did last year.....

[BballTim]

 You still think that the only way for the team to win is to duplicate last year's team exactly. Were they going to sign a big (PJ or someone else) to just average the number of minutes PJ got last year, or do you think they're going to duplicate things on a game by game basis? "Sorry, Rondo, but last year you only played 23 minutes in game 2 of the 2nd round, so you'll spend a lot of time on the bench tonight". Come on.

  Is the plan to limit Perk to 25 minutes a game because that's what he played last year? Would Davis be stuck with the 5 or so minutes he averaged last year? Clearly both of them will be expected to play more minutes than they did last year, and I don't think that all those minutes will come for KG. If they'd gotten Smith and he beat out Davis he'd get minutes and Glen wouldn't, but I doubt they guaranteed him minutes as you seem to assume. Obviously they were looking for impact players. That doesn't mean that Davis isn't better than he was last year, or that he can't play better than PJ did last year. If you factor in the extra minutes from Perk (better than PJ or Smith) we're in decent (not ideal but decent) shape.

if you read some of my interactions with EJ, BBall, you'll see that I already mentioned that BBD and/or Leon could fill the hole left by PJs departure.

but the team was clearly looking for an impact player and not just roster filler at the deadline.

as for only being able to win by duplicating last season, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that...

I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel here. You need a backup big to patrol the paint and knock down shots and that's what PJ did last year.....

  The team's always looking for an impact player if they can find one. But you're saying they were looking for one because whoever filled PJ's roster spot would automatically be expected to fill the same role PJ played in the playoffs. If Perk plays more minutes and BBD plays more minutes then clearly that role would be much smaller, and the Celts were trying to fill a smaller role. If they could have gotten someone better than Davis then he'd have a big role. If they'd gotten someone better than Perk or KG then he'd have a bigger role. They wouldn't turn down a player like that because they were only trying to fill a small role but it's not the case that they were trying to fill this big gaping hole in the lineup that PJ left.

[winsomme]

 You still think that the only way for the team to win is to duplicate last year's team exactly. Were they going to sign a big (PJ or someone else) to just average the number of minutes PJ got last year, or do you think they're going to duplicate things on a game by game basis? "Sorry, Rondo, but last year you only played 23 minutes in game 2 of the 2nd round, so you'll spend a lot of time on the bench tonight". Come on.

  Is the plan to limit Perk to 25 minutes a game because that's what he played last year? Would Davis be stuck with the 5 or so minutes he averaged last year? Clearly both of them will be expected to play more minutes than they did last year, and I don't think that all those minutes will come for KG. If they'd gotten Smith and he beat out Davis he'd get minutes and Glen wouldn't, but I doubt they guaranteed him minutes as you seem to assume. Obviously they were looking for impact players. That doesn't mean that Davis isn't better than he was last year, or that he can't play better than PJ did last year. If you factor in the extra minutes from Perk (better than PJ or Smith) we're in decent (not ideal but decent) shape.

if you read some of my interactions with EJ, BBall, you'll see that I already mentioned that BBD and/or Leon could fill the hole left by PJs departure.

but the team was clearly looking for an impact player and not just roster filler at the deadline.

as for only being able to win by duplicating last season, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that...

I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel here. You need a backup big to patrol the paint and knock down shots and that's what PJ did last year.....

  The team's always looking for an impact player if they can find one. But you're saying they were looking for one because whoever filled PJ's roster spot would automatically be expected to fill the same role PJ played in the playoffs.

No, I'm saying they were looking for one because it was still a need.

If we hadn't signed PJ last year, maybe Baby would have filled the need then, we don't know. We'd certainly feel better about him doing it this year if that were the case.

But he hasn't nailed the job down, and that is why we were still looking for someone at the deadline.

[winsomme]

BBall, if Mikki was just supposed to be roster filler, then what was the big risk in not signing him?

[BballTim]

 You still think that the only way for the team to win is to duplicate last year's team exactly. Were they going to sign a big (PJ or someone else) to just average the number of minutes PJ got last year, or do you think they're going to duplicate things on a game by game basis? "Sorry, Rondo, but last year you only played 23 minutes in game 2 of the 2nd round, so you'll spend a lot of time on the bench tonight". Come on.

  Is the plan to limit Perk to 25 minutes a game because that's what he played last year? Would Davis be stuck with the 5 or so minutes he averaged last year? Clearly both of them will be expected to play more minutes than they did last year, and I don't think that all those minutes will come for KG. If they'd gotten Smith and he beat out Davis he'd get minutes and Glen wouldn't, but I doubt they guaranteed him minutes as you seem to assume. Obviously they were looking for impact players. That doesn't mean that Davis isn't better than he was last year, or that he can't play better than PJ did last year. If you factor in the extra minutes from Perk (better than PJ or Smith) we're in decent (not ideal but decent) shape.

if you read some of my interactions with EJ, BBall, you'll see that I already mentioned that BBD and/or Leon could fill the hole left by PJs departure.

but the team was clearly looking for an impact player and not just roster filler at the deadline.

as for only being able to win by duplicating last season, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that...

I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel here. You need a backup big to patrol the paint and knock down shots and that's what PJ did last year.....

  The team's always looking for an impact player if they can find one. But you're saying they were looking for one because whoever filled PJ's roster spot would automatically be expected to fill the same role PJ played in the playoffs.

No, I'm saying they were looking for one because it was still a need.

If we hadn't signed PJ last year, maybe Baby would have filled the need then, we don't know. We'd certainly feel better about him doing it this year if that were the case.

But he hasn't nailed the job down, and that is why we were still looking for someone at the deadline.

  I think Davis has pretty much nailed down a spot in the rotation.

[BballTim]

BBall, if Mikki was just supposed to be roster filler, then what was the big risk in not signing him?

 Maybe they wanted more depth? Are you saying they should have just not signed anyone? Or that we should have passed on him and waited for Smith to get bought out and still watch him sign with the Cavs? What exactly is the value in not signing him?

[crownsy]

BBall, if Mikki was just supposed to be roster filler, then what was the big risk in not signing him?

because if we ran into injury trouble our bad depth would have killed us?

I mean, mikki isnt that good, but can you imagine that stretch without him? we would have had 2 active "bigs" at one point, perk and baby.