moore and marbury better pickups than i expected

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

What is with you and Joe Smith? yes Moore isnt a great rebounder, but I like what he brings to this team, and I like it more then what Joe smith brings.....hes just as poor a post defender as moore, doesnt finish  as well as moore, is a mouse with no enthusiasm...I just like the way Moore fits in chemistry-wise from what I see, and I also like his passion, jumpshot , ability to run the floor and finish, and his effeciency...

Joe smith hasnt played in a month..are you sure? he had almost 10 minutes more than Moore, went 3-8 and scored 7 and grabbed 5, and also couldnt defend a chair in the post (similar post defender as moore)

Moore played  an effecient 12 minutes, but provided energy for 48 minutes, great fit for this team on the floor and personality wise

[Roy Hobbs]

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

What is with you and Joe Smith? yes Moore isnt a great rebounder, but I like what he brings to this team, and I like it more then what Joe smith brings.....hes just as poor a post defender as moore, doesnt finish  as well as moore, is a mouse with no enthusiasm...I just like the way Moore fits in chemistry-wise from what I see, and I also like his passion, jumpshot , ability to run the floor and finish, and his effeciency...

Joe smith hasnt played in a month..are you sure? he had almost 10 minutes more than Moore, went 3-8 and scored 7 and grabbed 5, and also couldnt defend a chair in the post (similar post defender as moore)

Moore played  an effecient 12 minutes, but provided energy for 48 minutes, great fit for this team on the floor and personality wise

I don't disagree regarding Moore's strengths.  However, defense and rebounding is a big part of basketball, too.  I wouldn't want Moore on the floor down the stretch in a close game, because he's likely to either: 1) let his man get by him, 2) foul, or 3) fail to secure a rebound.  Passion and hustle only gets a guy so far.

As for Smith, he last played on February 10, so I'm not sure why you're doubtful of the "hasn't played in a month" statement.  Smith is a better player than Moore -- he's a better defender, rebounder, and jump shooter, although Moore has looked great on his jump shot so far.  Moore is on the roster, so I'll be rooting for him and against Smith, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend that I think Moore is a better player.  He isn't.

[KJ33]

Joe Smith completely dominated the Celtics all game. He was clearly the best choice out of all the free agents. I really feel like Smith is a future hall of fame player. We should sign Smith in the off season for the full MLE. I would personally offer him max money if it were possible. We just cannot afford to have Smith playing for other teams, and sticking it to us with his great play.

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

As for Starbury and Moore, I agree with cordobes to an extent.  I've been a little surprised by the two "Moore is better than I expected" threads in the past 24 hours.  Moore is exactly what I expected. 

Moore scores, but he doesn't rebound, he fouls too much, and his defense is spotty.  He had five fouls in 13 minutes tonight.  This isn't some rookie -- it's an NBA vet.  That's a horrific foul rate, which is in line with him leading the NBA in personals last season.  Also, he only had two rebounds, and I remember at least two instances where Moore gave up an offensive rebound because he didn't seem to be able to get a hold on the ball.  He has 15 fouls and 8 rebounds in 64 minutes.  Those are terrible ratios, especially for a 7 footer.

Offensively, though, Moore has been very good, and his jumper has been more consistent than I expected.  His three baskets tonight showed off his versatility:  he can finish at the rim, hit a sweet jump shot, or drive to the basket.  He's definitely got more to offer on that end than P.J., who as I remember had the jumper, but not a lot else that was above-average at this stage.

As for Starbury, he's looked fluid out there, he's just rusty.  It's clear that he'll be a help to the team once his shot starts falling.  He has generally made smart decisions with the ball, and he hasn't forced shots; if anything, he's been too hesitant, and it's looked like maybe his confidence isn't there.  That will come.

Do you at all remember how much PJ fouled last year?  Especially early on, but throughout his stint, PJ's chief defensive weapon was to foul another big hard rather than giving up a layup since he was often out of position.  But this is not the egregious offense you make it out to be.  Moore isnt playing starters minutes, we don't need to 'keep him on the floor".  Part of having depth with Bigs is having 18 fouls to use off the bench.  So go ahead Mikki, foul when you must, you get 6 and won't play nearly enough to get in foul trouble.

Marbury is making a concerted effort to fit in and be the 2nd unit's point guard.  It is the right move in my opinion.  Is he passing up some looks?  Yeah, but he is rusty, doesn't have full confidence yet, and is trying to learn the offense and tendencies of his teammates.  His own offense will be the last thing to come.  I don't think people should get frustrated by this.  How much more would they if he was just chucking?  Sam got crucified for only looking for his last year, even when Doc was telling him to, now Marbury faces derision for not shooting?

[Roy Hobbs]

Do you at all remember how much PJ fouled last year?  Especially early on, but throughout his stint, PJ's chief defensive weapon was to foul another big hard rather than giving up a layup since he was often out of position.  But this is not the egregious offense you make it out to be.  Moore isnt playing starters minutes, we don't need to 'keep him on the floor".  Part of having depth with Bigs is having 18 fouls to use off the bench.  So go ahead Mikki, foul when you must, you get 6 and won't play nearly enough to get in foul trouble.

First, P.J.'s foul rate wasn't anything all that out of the ordinary; his rate of 5 fouls per 36 minutes last year compares favorably to the foul rate of Perk, Scal, BBD, and Powe.  Moore is at a different level, though; he's averaging 8.4 fouls per 36 minutes.  And contrary to your implication, these aren't all hard, "send a message" type fouls -- a lot of them are stupid, going for dumb fakes, etc.  These fouls get the opponent to the line, often when there's no need for it.

Moore led the league in personals last year.  His foul rate is atrocious this season.  It's not an asset.

[Smitty77]

Roy,

I don't think that many really believe that Mikki is a better player than Joe.  However, many (apparently NOT you) believe that Mikki is a better fit for OUR team.  Also, Doc clearly thought that there was a pre-arranged deal between Fegan and the Cavs for Joe to come to Cleveland.  Mikki is playing solid thus far and had a higher Efficiency Rating in last night's game than Joe.

Peace,

Smitty77

[cordobes]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/3/3/779482/not-exactly-confidence-ins

[moiso]

Marbury is a very good NBA player. When he gets going people are going to want him to start instead of Rondo. He is that good. Just give him a month...

He hasn't been above average in 3 years.  No way people are going to want him to start over Rondo.  Rondo is by far the better player.

[2short]

IMO joe smith is the better player but he can't be stretched out!  Moore has the length we need, we already have pf galore, scal, davis, powe and garnett.  Moore has proven to be a good passer (great pass last night) and has been hitting the outside j nicely.  I know it was his first game but smith looked out of it, Powe just killed him.
marbury  , i won't boo him as a celtic but can't stand him
I'd hope he gets comfortable, a good thing I feel is he's trying to fit in and not jack it up every time.

[xmuscularghandix]

Marbury is a very good NBA player. When he gets going people are going to want him to start instead of Rondo. He is that good. Just give him a month...

He hasn't been above average in 3 years.  No way people are going to want him to start over Rondo.  Rondo is by far the better player.

He's been playing for the Knicks on bad, selfish, teams...

[moiso]

Marbury is a very good NBA player. When he gets going people are going to want him to start instead of Rondo. He is that good. Just give him a month...

He hasn't been above average in 3 years.  No way people are going to want him to start over Rondo.  Rondo is by far the better player.

He's been playing for the Knicks on bad, selfish, teams...

I know.  And he was the leader of that.  I'm just saying it's not 2003 anymore.  Marbury hasn't looked like his old explosive self in years.  I think he can be a nice backup for us, but I disagree that we just aquired an allstar caliber player.

[moiso]

I don't mean to pick on Marbury because I think he'll be helpful for us, but it's amazing how his reputation is so much more than his game.  It's the Darius Miles effect.  Marbury was once a very talented player, but the guy was a two time allstar.  That's the same amount of times as Brad Miller and people of that caliber.  A lot of people seem to think Marbury used to be like an Isiah Thomas or someone on that level.  He just wasn't that guy.

[cordobes]

He's been playing for the Knicks on bad, selfish, teams...

This is beating a dead horse now, but there's a reason why Marbury has been playing for bad, selfish teams for almost his entire career and those teams stopped being bad and selfish once he left. The last time I saw Marbury playing winning, selfless basketball was in Minnesota. Let's hope he behaves and plays properly while in green, but there's no need to write Stephon's biography as a player.

I agree with Moiso. When was the last season Marbury played All-Star basketball, at least statistically? Five years ago? And he was of great value for fantasy teams owners, but a great player he never was.

[moiso]

If I was putting together a team and obviously the goal is to win games, I'd take Rondo today over Marbury in his prime.

[Kuberski33]

I heard an interview shortly after the trade where a Sacramento beat writer said more has poor hands.  From what I've seen so far, I think that's accurate. 

However, offensively he's a poor man's KG in that he can hit the mid range jumper very consistently.  I think he'll be a little better defensively once he gets used to the C's system.  Don't forget though, Perk and BBD are much improved so the only way you'll see him in the court late in games is if a lot of bad stuff happens to have Doc reaching down the depth chart. 

For his role I think he's an excellent pickup. 

It's too bad Starbury couldn't have a full season to get acclimated with this team but there's no way that could have happened so it's a non-issue.  He's still trying to figure out everyone else's game as well as the C's offense, but come the playoffs I guarantee you will be seeing a couple of Sit Rondo/Give Marbury more minutes threads.

Marbury can still play and at a very high level.  He also seems to be a little better defender than I expected.

[Jon]

When Marbury gets his legs underneath him and starts getting a bit more strength and lift in his shot, watch out. There are very few bench guards, even on the contending teams, that will be able to guard him. Add to that the fact that baby would be returning to the second unit and suddenly the second unit is looking deep against other teams.

Marbury playing near Starbury level with a BBD hitting his outside shot at 50%, Eddie playing in the natural SG position and Leon and Mikki doing what they do with the occasional Big Three member mixed in is suddenly a very, very encouraging sign.

Who's second team PG is going to give Marbury a hard time? Boobie Gibson? Anthony Johnson? Skip Murray? Jordan Farmar? George Hill? Are any of those guys that would be possibly matched up against Marbury for 12-18 MPG really going to be able to guard, stop, slow down or severly hinder an at full strength and condition Marbury?

Given who Marbury will be playing with, I like our backup PG and second team situations over most other teams now. If the defensive intensity that Eddie, BBD and Leon put forth every night rubs off on Marbury and he can get his offensive gamne back, I like our chances for number 18.

If Marbury gets his legs back, whose first team PG is going to guard him?  When he's at the top of his game, no one can really guard him. 

I think that if he really bounces back to where he used to be, we may see some limited minutes for him at the 2-guard spot next to Rondo with the first unit.