moore and marbury better pickups than i expected

[nickagneta]

Sweet Jesus, I hope they can play much better than this. Well, at least Marbury, who's clearly very rusty. I hope he has the time to get back in form till the playoffs and he definitely needs to pick up on defence, he's been horrific. Moore, yeah, not worthy to have better expectations, he's not doing much better than this in regards to defence and rebounding, he's doing what he supposed to do, so as long as he keeps making the midrange jumps at a decent rate and not turning over the ball he'll be fine. Not sure if it's enough to guarantee him a spot in the playoff rotation though.

I think you hit my two main concerns, that being, can Marbury become a better defender than what he last showed in NY and can Moore hit that shot consistently when big games need his three shots falling at important times? Marbury has never been a defensive player and Moore has never played in and had to produce truly important games.

But if Marbury can come in and at least stop the second team from creating large holes and Moore can knock down 2-3 shots a game while bringing energy and hustle, that will be a lot better than what the alternative was before they got here.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

I know alot of people around here are critical of moore, and he is a poor rebounder and is proned to fouls...but I already love what he does bring..energy and hustle, posey-like bench ethic, can finish strong in transition and knock down the midrange jumper and is a good ft shooter and really wants to win and work hard, I think hes actually been good for the chemistry of all our bigs, and when KG comes back, we look solid in the frontcourt..

As for Marbury, im being patient with him, his offense still isnt there, but hes saying all the right things so far, and is definetly playing within a team concept, and has been a great passer...Im confident he'll get in a good groove soon

[Tr1boy]

how many players max can you dress for the playoffs?

because moore and marbury were not temp pickups, both will play important roles during our playoff stretch not sure what some of you are talking about.

Powe had a great night tonight but thats the thing with him, one night great, on the road and against certain players he plays not so great. Big baby for a long while now has been the more consistant backup pf.

So if the playoffs started today and if i had to choose 4 centre/pf bench guys i'd include in the rotation it would be perk, kg, moore and davis. Davis new jumper is heaps better than powe's wait for a pass and dunk approach while both are similiar in other areas. You can't deny moores vet presence, height and consistant jumper while not being a defensive liability. (actually very hard working defender)

Loved the marbury drive in the 2nd quarter passing it to moore for that emphatic dunk where he went crazy pumping up the bench and the crowed. Moore plays with fire

[guava_wrench]

It is premature to draw any conclusions about Marbury's personality as a Celtic. He always starts off well. We need to see how he acts when he has settled in. Perhaps his late return helps us in that way. He won't have time to get comfortable.

Our second unit looked competent. No one had a negative +/-. I don't expect Moore to dominate. I am happy if the team plays well when he is in. I look forward to Marbury showing more though.

[Scalablob990]

It is premature to draw any conclusions about Marbury's personality as a Celtic. He always starts off well. We need to see how he acts when he has settled in. Perhaps his late return helps us in that way. He won't have time to get comfortable.

Our second unit looked competent. No one had a negative +/-. I don't expect Moore to dominate. I am happy if the team plays well when he is in. I look forward to Marbury showing more though.

I'm just worried about this "pass first" stuff. He passed on alot of good looks tonight including that pass to Mikki when Mikki was O.O.B's. I'm just hoping he's just rusty and he will be confident to shoot soon.

[Sweet17]

Marbury is a very good NBA player. When he gets going people are going to want him to start instead of Rondo. He is that good. Just give him a month...

[bucknersrevenge]

It is premature to draw any conclusions about Marbury's personality as a Celtic. He always starts off well. We need to see how he acts when he has settled in. Perhaps his late return helps us in that way. He won't have time to get comfortable.

Our second unit looked competent. No one had a negative +/-. I don't expect Moore to dominate. I am happy if the team plays well when he is in. I look forward to Marbury showing more though.

TP for interjecting some sanity. While Marbury hasn't done anything to really hurt us yet he certainly hasn't done anything that has separated himself production-wise from Gabe Pruitt. He looks just as tentative as Gabe looked at times and his defensed is iffy. To his credit he is saying the right things now but 3 games into his Celtic career isn't the issue. Antoine Walker's last stint with the C's started well and then slowly but surely he began to revert back to his shot-chucking ball-movement killing ways. We'll see what he does closer to the end of the season and the playoffs.

I HOPE Marbury does good simply cuz I root for the laundry but I'm nowhere near sold on Marbury.

[Tai]

I want Marbury, like Rondo, to put up the open shot if it's there for him. I feel like he's bought into the media hype that he's a ball hogger who only think about himself, and is trying to prove them wrong by looking for the pass before the shot, first. He attempted some shots that was there for him, and even though he only put in one, I can live with that.

I think Moore did great. He, along with the bigs, clogged up the lane and made it hard for the Cavs offense to breath in there. As long as he can do that night in, night out, the C's bench will always, always be better off. 

[davemonsterband]

Huh? Talk about overreacting, I guess your standards for them aren't all that high.

[Roy Hobbs]

Joe Smith completely dominated the Celtics all game. He was clearly the best choice out of all the free agents. I really feel like Smith is a future hall of fame player. We should sign Smith in the off season for the full MLE. I would personally offer him max money if it were possible. We just cannot afford to have Smith playing for other teams, and sticking it to us with his great play.

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

As for Starbury and Moore, I agree with cordobes to an extent.  I've been a little surprised by the two "Moore is better than I expected" threads in the past 24 hours.  Moore is exactly what I expected. 

Moore scores, but he doesn't rebound, he fouls too much, and his defense is spotty.  He had five fouls in 13 minutes tonight.  This isn't some rookie -- it's an NBA vet.  That's a horrific foul rate, which is in line with him leading the NBA in personals last season.  Also, he only had two rebounds, and I remember at least two instances where Moore gave up an offensive rebound because he didn't seem to be able to get a hold on the ball.  He has 15 fouls and 8 rebounds in 64 minutes.  Those are terrible ratios, especially for a 7 footer.

Offensively, though, Moore has been very good, and his jumper has been more consistent than I expected.  His three baskets tonight showed off his versatility:  he can finish at the rim, hit a sweet jump shot, or drive to the basket.  He's definitely got more to offer on that end than P.J., who as I remember had the jumper, but not a lot else that was above-average at this stage.

As for Starbury, he's looked fluid out there, he's just rusty.  It's clear that he'll be a help to the team once his shot starts falling.  He has generally made smart decisions with the ball, and he hasn't forced shots; if anything, he's been too hesitant, and it's looked like maybe his confidence isn't there.  That will come.

[winsomme]

Joe Smith completely dominated the Celtics all game. He was clearly the best choice out of all the free agents. I really feel like Smith is a future hall of fame player. We should sign Smith in the off season for the full MLE. I would personally offer him max money if it were possible. We just cannot afford to have Smith playing for other teams, and sticking it to us with his great play.

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

As for Starbury and Moore, I agree with cordobes to an extent.  I've been a little surprised by the two "Moore is better than I expected" threads in the past 24 hours.  Moore is exactly what I expected. 

Moore scores, but he doesn't rebound, he fouls too much, and his defense is spotty.  He had five fouls in 13 minutes tonight.  This isn't some rookie -- it's an NBA vet.  That's a horrific foul rate, which is in line with him leading the NBA in personals last season.  Also, he only had two rebounds, and I remember at least two instances where Moore gave up an offensive rebound because he didn't seem to be able to get a hold on the ball.  He has 15 fouls and 8 rebounds in 64 minutes.  Those are terrible ratios, especially for a 7 footer.

Offensively, though, Moore has been very good, and his jumper has been more consistent than I expected.  His three baskets tonight showed off his versatility:  he can finish at the rim, hit a sweet jump shot, or drive to the basket.  He's definitely got more to offer on that end than P.J., who as I remember had the jumper, but not a lot else that was above-average at this stage.

As for Starbury, he's looked fluid out there, he's just rusty.  It's clear that he'll be a help to the team once his shot starts falling.  He has generally made smart decisions with the ball, and he hasn't forced shots; if anything, he's been too hesitant, and it's looked like maybe his confidence isn't there.  That will come.

the one thing i'll say for Moore is to reiterate something someone mentioned earlier in the thread and that is that he does have that Posey quality on the bench. May seem like a backhanded compliment, but i don't see it that way. I actually think stuff like that is incredibly underestimated. he seems to be a very good teammate.

When he's on the floor, honestly, i'm scared to death. When he gets the ball, it doesn't seem like he's at all in control of what he's doing (like Mar, that could be from lack of PT). and he has a lot of trouble blocking out on the defensive end. But that said, he's made shots and made big plays....And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

In relation to Joe Smith, I think we can see that he is a very stable player who is going to be very good for the Cavs. I actually think that they should move him into the starting lineup, and let Varejao move back to his natural role coming off the bench. I think he's more of a game changer in that role.

On Mar, even though he has been terribly rusty, I have to say, that i can see how he could be very effective for us. especially when he starts really being comfortable going to the basket and drawing fouls. he's clearly not comfortable yet. I'm just not sure how Doc is going to get him the 20 MPG that he really needs to be an impact and i don't think you want to screw with Eddie too much considering he's shooting 42% from three-land.

anyway, all in all, hard to complain when you just beat your main competition in a game that really could have given them all the momentum for the rest of the regular season.

Huge win and great performances any way you slice it.

[Bankshot]

It is premature to draw any conclusions about Marbury's personality as a Celtic. He always starts off well. We need to see how he acts when he has settled in. Perhaps his late return helps us in that way. He won't have time to get comfortable.

Our second unit looked competent. No one had a negative +/-. I don't expect Moore to dominate. I am happy if the team plays well when he is in. I look forward to Marbury showing more though.

I'm just worried about this "pass first" stuff. He passed on alot of good looks tonight including that pass to Mikki when Mikki was O.O.B's. I'm just hoping he's just rusty and he will be confident to shoot soon.

I think he's trying too hard not to appear selfish.  He'll take his shots when he's comfortable and in game shape.

[Brendan]

The biggest thing was when Rondo went down with an injury, I said "thank Danny we got Marbury." As long as Rondo is healthy we could probably have soldiered through with the House Help approach, but we had no margin for injury with Rondo.

In terms of matchups Marbury is a great fit for playing CLE where their guards are smaller. I think he'll eventually cut into some of House's minutes and prevent Tony Allen from becoming a regular, but that's okay - those guys are role players anyways.

Moore's Law: he won't be playing if Scal and KG are healthy.

You can dress 12 guys, and I'm positive it will be these 12:

Perk / BBD / Moore
KG / Powe
PP / Scal / TA
RA / House
Rondo / Marbury

Pruitt, Giddens, and Walker will be watching. Walker is the guy most likely to sneak in there considering he adds size at the wing and TA and Scal are the two guys ahead of him.

[winsomme]

It is premature to draw any conclusions about Marbury's personality as a Celtic. He always starts off well. We need to see how he acts when he has settled in. Perhaps his late return helps us in that way. He won't have time to get comfortable.

Our second unit looked competent. No one had a negative +/-. I don't expect Moore to dominate. I am happy if the team plays well when he is in. I look forward to Marbury showing more though.

I'm just worried about this "pass first" stuff. He passed on alot of good looks tonight including that pass to Mikki when Mikki was O.O.B's. I'm just hoping he's just rusty and he will be confident to shoot soon.

I think he's trying too hard not to appear selfish.  He'll take his shots when he's comfortable and in game shape.

I was thinking that too, but you know what.....that's probably the best way to get his game going. If he was hoisting up bad shots instead of forcing bad passes, he could get in a rut.

but since he's focusing on getting the offense moving, he's serving a good function until he gets his feel for the game back.

If he's still deferring 5 games from now, it might need to be changed, but for now I actually think it is a good way to get his feet wet.

The guy needs playing time, though. he got 16 mins last night, but that was with Rondo only playing 30. I'm just not sure where the mins are going to come from....

[nickagneta]

Joe Smith completely dominated the Celtics all game. He was clearly the best choice out of all the free agents. I really feel like Smith is a future hall of fame player. We should sign Smith in the off season for the full MLE. I would personally offer him max money if it were possible. We just cannot afford to have Smith playing for other teams, and sticking it to us with his great play.

He hadn't played in a month, and yet ended up with 7 and 5.  Are you capable of making a post where you actually set forth an argument, rather than sarcastically attacking the views of others?

As for Starbury and Moore, I agree with cordobes to an extent.  I've been a little surprised by the two "Moore is better than I expected" threads in the past 24 hours.  Moore is exactly what I expected. 

Moore scores, but he doesn't rebound, he fouls too much, and his defense is spotty.  He had five fouls in 13 minutes tonight.  This isn't some rookie -- it's an NBA vet.  That's a horrific foul rate, which is in line with him leading the NBA in personals last season.  Also, he only had two rebounds, and I remember at least two instances where Moore gave up an offensive rebound because he didn't seem to be able to get a hold on the ball.  He has 15 fouls and 8 rebounds in 64 minutes.  Those are terrible ratios, especially for a 7 footer.

Offensively, though, Moore has been very good, and his jumper has been more consistent than I expected.  His three baskets tonight showed off his versatility:  he can finish at the rim, hit a sweet jump shot, or drive to the basket.  He's definitely got more to offer on that end than P.J., who as I remember had the jumper, but not a lot else that was above-average at this stage.

As for Starbury, he's looked fluid out there, he's just rusty.  It's clear that he'll be a help to the team once his shot starts falling.  He has generally made smart decisions with the ball, and he hasn't forced shots; if anything, he's been too hesitant, and it's looked like maybe his confidence isn't there.  That will come.

While on most nights I would agree with you that Mikki Moore is a fouling machine, mostly due to his Tony Allen-like ability to go for just about every head fake he sees, I would like to point out that three of last night's fouls were absolutely atrocious calls that had no right being called and wouldn't have been called in anything but the David Stern, WWE refereeing NBA.

Moore's "foul" where Mo Williams dribbled right of him while sticking out his left arm in a clothesline giving fashion and slamming it into Moore was about as bad a call as I have ever seen.

Moore's "foul" where both he and Joe Smith came down with the ball and both had control simultaneously for a second or two was easily a jump ball call or a no call.

Moore's "foul" of going for William's head fake and then upon landing having Williams literally toss hiself two feet forward into Moore was the epitome of an offensive foul called in that sitution. Remember the offensive foul called against Pierce in the Finals last year for doing something similar on a three pointer he made. That, though obviously way less egregious than William's, was correctly called an offensive foul. Wiiliam's attempt at doing the same thing was an exaggerated joke of an attempt to pick up the foul the same way Pierce did and yet Moore was called for the foul.

I'm sorry but using last night's five fouls as proof of Moore's foul prone tendencies is tough to accept, even if I do agree that he is very foul prone and will probably be personally responsible for two to three fouls on three point shooters before the regular season is over.