cavs fan half time analysis

[guava_wrench]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

[end of rant]

On a different note, great win tonight!!

Great post. It is pathetic. We play really physical, and it makes it hard for other teams to score. It also gets them to the line. Every team has there share of ref-blaming fans who are oblivious what happened in the game apart from 5 plays they didn't like, 2 of which are judgment calls that could go either way.

They are particularly blind to the many bad calls that go their team's way, since it would allow them to play the victim.

[Roy Hobbs]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

[winsomme]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

I agree with that Cavs fan completely.....Home court is gonna be huge.

The thing I'm not sure about is how Doc is gonna get Pierce rest and still get us HC. I guess they could rush KG back, but that's not really in our best interest either...

oh yeah and on the refs, did you notice Rush's reaction when Pierce took that charge late in the game with the Cs up by like 12. he started nodding excessively as if to say...."okay, this game is over now, so i'm gonna start making legit calls.."

I thought Danny's head was gonna explode. I thought he was gonna come out on the court and get a T!!

amazing restraint by Doc. and great coaching by him too.

[ACF]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

Thanks for agreeing, Roy. TP.
I love the fact that we won so we
can actually complain about the refs
without people calling us sore losers.

I signed up over there to be able
to comment on some stuff! We'll see
if they'll have me 
No trolling, of course.

[cordobes]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

I also disagree with Hoops in regards to this particular game, there was a period where the game was poorly officiated, with too many questionable calls (and unfortunately most of them favoured the same team). However, he's right if one sees the big picture though, every fanbase believes the refs hurt their team more often than not and that the league conscientiously tries to benefit certain clubs via officiating.

[CelticsWhat35]

I watched the game on TV, and to be honest, I had no idea the free throw disparity was that large.  I think the Cavs definitely got the benefit of the calls last night, but not by as big a margin as the stats would suggest.  A lot of the fouls that were called on the Celtics were legit.  The difference was, the calls weren't going against the Cavs on the other way.  But I think if it was called evenly, the Cavs still would've gotten to the line more, but maybe it would've been 30-20, or something like that.  Which in close game, a difference of 16 free throws is huge.

But I don't want to harp on the free throw shooting.  I was just so happy to see how our team played, especially down low.  It was great to see Powe and Baby both have big games on the same night.  Hopefully they can keep it up.

[CoachBo]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

I agree, Roy. The officiating Friday night was DECIDEDLY sub-standard. And that's saying something, since the bar in this league isn't very high anyway. Rivers gets high marks for restraint from the bench; I would have been ejected.

Very one-sided game.

[Scalablob990]

Yeah but everyone here can agree that the Lakers get the most calls out of every single team in the league, it's putrid and disgusting.

[Chris]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

The wierd thing is, I thought the refs did an excellent job in the first half.  They stayed out of the way, and were pretty consistent in letting both teams play.  Unfortunately, it seemed like they were switched out at halftime for normal NBA refs.

[angryguy77]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

[end of rant]

On a different note, great win tonight!!

Points in the Paint: Cavs - 22, Celtics - 58
Free Throw Attempts: Cavs - 38, Celtics - 12

Normally I'd agree with you, Hoops, but I think your post above shows that you simply didn't pay close enough attention to the game. I'm not going to agree or disagree with the conspiracy theories that have been thrown out there, because I am in no position to speculate about how true they are. But just looking at the stats, you can see that the calls definitely didn't go both ways. Tonight, the refs were horrible, and I'm not sure how you could say you watched and saw zero evidence of biassed reffing when you take a look at the stats above.

I agree that they were letting the Cavs get away with more bumping and shoving in the paint. But a large part of that disparity is when the Cavs went inside he fouled them hard to prevent layups. When we went inside often they just let us lay it in.

Still Pierce should have gone to the line about four more times, Powe/Perk/Baby should have gotten a few more as well.

Just let us lay it in? If PP had to make some amazing shots around the rim lat night because the swallowed the whistle. We have been getting jobbed all year at home(see LA game). There is no reason for that big of a gap between FT attempts when you look at how we played. We were fouling, but they were allowed to bump a lot down low. Paul should have had 3 and ones last night. I'm happy that we won, but if Allen or Paul are off last night, or we turn the ball over(good job btw guys) we lose. We go on the road against big teams and we lose the FT battle. We play at home against big teams and we lose the FT battle. These were not questionable calls, they plainly were allowing the cavs to play physical and we could not.

[winsomme]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

The wierd thing is, I thought the refs did an excellent job in the first half.  They stayed out of the way, and were pretty consistent in letting both teams play.  Unfortunately, it seemed like they were switched out at halftime for normal NBA refs.

I honestly can't even remember the officiating in the first half - that's how bad the officiating in the second half was!

I have to again give props to Tommy H. The only thing keeping me sane during that game was Tommy, once again, saying exactly what i was thinking.

if we had fallen behind in that game, forget about Doc....I think Tommy would have gotten tossed....

[celticswillwin43]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

[end of rant]

On a different note, great win tonight!!

Points in the Paint: Cavs - 22, Celtics - 58
Free Throw Attempts: Cavs - 38, Celtics - 12

Normally I'd agree with you, Hoops, but I think your post above shows that you simply didn't pay close enough attention to the game. I'm not going to agree or disagree with the conspiracy theories that have been thrown out there, because I am in no position to speculate about how true they are. But just looking at the stats, you can see that the calls definitely didn't go both ways. Tonight, the refs were horrible, and I'm not sure how you could say you watched and saw zero evidence of biassed reffing when you take a look at the stats above.

I'm never one to rant like that, especially on a computer, but like he said, those stats don't lie.

[Champzilla]

Where is this kid's second half analysis ? Was he only going to do one if the cavs won ?

[guava_wrench]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

[end of rant]

On a different note, great win tonight!!

Points in the Paint: Cavs - 22, Celtics - 58
Free Throw Attempts: Cavs - 38, Celtics - 12

Normally I'd agree with you, Hoops, but I think your post above shows that you simply didn't pay close enough attention to the game. I'm not going to agree or disagree with the conspiracy theories that have been thrown out there, because I am in no position to speculate about how true they are. But just looking at the stats, you can see that the calls definitely didn't go both ways. Tonight, the refs were horrible, and I'm not sure how you could say you watched and saw zero evidence of biassed reffing when you take a look at the stats above.

I'm never one to rant like that, especially on a computer, but like he said, those stats don't lie.

Stats don't lie because stats don't make conclusions. Stats are just numbers. It is people who try to justify their opinions by using stats out of context, like the poster above.

I'm sure you've hear the quote, "There are lies, [dang] lies, and statistics".

I can easily state that those stats prove that the Cavs didn't challenge our shots inside, thus they didn't foul as much. We contested every shot, which led to more fouls, but less field goals.

Read up on the Quine-Duhem Thesis regarding the underdetermination of theories.

[Hoops]

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

I humbly disagree, and I don't think only Celtics fans noticed the officiating.  For instance, here is the first post on the game recap at Fear the Sword, SBN's Cavs affiliate:

LOL, The referees literally gave the Cavaliers a chance to win

38 FT attempts… and we still lost…

We really need home court.

Fair enough, Roy, but you're making a different point. I was ranting about the fact that so many people want to play the victim and suggest that there is a conspiracy or a blatant bias in the reffing. The refs and David Stern can't conspire against every team in the NBA - yet every team has fans that feel the refs are biased against them. It makes ZERO sense.

Your point is that the refs are often inconsistent and/or poor. That's a totally different thing. I don't agree that a huge free throw disparity is necessarily evidence of poor officiating, but it could be. I absolutely believe in refs being swayed by a home crowd - refs are humans and they're weak sometimes. But there's absolutely no way they're going into a game saying "We're going to try to hand this game to team X." No freaking way.

Were the refs poor last night? I didn't think they were any worse than they usually are, but I usually think they're about a C-. I, like everyone else, have seen some really poorly officiated games - reffing jobs that definitely affected the outcome. But they surely weren't preconceived screw jobs. In any event, I just didn't think last night was one of those games. But we can agree to disagree on that point.